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Offlineease3RT0
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Registered: 11/28/01
Posts: 16
Last seen: 14 years, 4 months
Red/Blue Pill?
    #472889 - 11/28/01 10:37 PM (15 years, 8 months ago)

I've made a lil analogy for how zoomz (local shroom slang) compare to the Matrix... (you may very well see it already) Well, I look at zoomz like the red pill (although it should be the "blue" pill) and as living a life without the altered state of mind or perceptions of reality as being the blue pill. I honostly felt like I had been living an illusion which was much part of my life since I could remember - and the red pill finally showed me what the Matrix was... I had so many discoveries that I would have never encountered had I taken the blue pill (so to speak). And that is an interesting idea, BUT has some small flaws to it in that I noticed some people can still not see the Matrix for what it truely is even though they have choosen the red pill... and just some questions for all of you who may choose to give your unique answers to - would you rather have stayed ignorant to the "Matrix" or taken that red pill? Why or why not?
Hahaha, kinda nutty - but I know alot of you can prolly relate :)
PeaCe All


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InvisibleUlysees
Power of Lard

Registered: 10/06/01
Posts: 5,060
Re: Red/Blue Pill? [Re: ease3RT0]
    #472926 - 11/28/01 11:06 PM (15 years, 8 months ago)

Well, I know exactly what you're talking about, but in my case it wasn't the mushroom that did it. There are many days when things are so hard that I wish I'd never taken the prvoverbial red pill. Ahh, blissful ignorance. Nothing but a fond memory to me now...
But seriously, we all might like "The Matrix", but when it comes down to it, it's a hard path to follow.


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InvisibleIshmael
enthusiast

Registered: 10/29/99
Posts: 224
Re: Red/Blue Pill? [Re: Ulysees]
    #472947 - 11/28/01 11:28 PM (15 years, 8 months ago)

Following 'the path' opens one up for karmic nullification - growth cannot procede without the removal of impediment and 'bad' occurence is simply the manner in which you are given the opportunity to remove just such an impediment. When something 'negative' occurs along the path, know that it is /part/ of the path - the difficulty is the chance to remove some small shadow - to make up from some previous transgression.

Or you can just look at the difficulty as an annoyance, get angry,stew and finally re-act. That's the common solution to any given problem and I think we can all see how far that gets us day to day.

You're right. The path will never be easy, choosing the path is literally choosing the path of /most/ resistance. One simply must have the fortitude to press on without becoming too attached to what /is/ occuring - difficulty is a chance for growth. Without difficulty, without flaw, there is no growth.

Ish


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OfflineAxiom420
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Registered: 03/22/01
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Re: Red/Blue Pill? [Re: ease3RT0]
    #473068 - 11/29/01 01:07 AM (15 years, 8 months ago)

If all this reality is just a grand delusion, I'd like to meet whoever made it.

The red pill is the decision to keep questioning every thing. The hard part is to keep from becoming self-skeptical, remembering to hold onto truth once you've found some. If you truely believe that you are incapable of "enough" understanding then you have chosen the blue pill.


--------------------
"Common sense is the collection of prejudices acquired by age eighteen."
- Albert Einstein


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InvisibleUlysees
Power of Lard

Registered: 10/06/01
Posts: 5,060
Re: Red/Blue Pill? [Re: Axiom420]
    #473337 - 11/29/01 09:13 AM (15 years, 8 months ago)

I think you both misunderstand (it's not some grand delusion) and underestimate (it is something massive) the true matrix. After being hit with so many things in the past maybe 24-48 hours I'm barely able to process and keep on track with the practical things let alone get into a coherent discussion for awhile... (this seemed like as good a place as any to write that.)


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OfflineTimeleech
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Registered: 10/04/01
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Loc: Norway
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Re: Red/Blue Pill? [Re: Ulysees]
    #473928 - 11/29/01 08:13 PM (15 years, 8 months ago)

I'd take the red pill any day, not think about the consequences, and worry later. The truth would be worth it to me. Besides, I don't find this particular interpretation of the current matrix that bloody swell anyway. i wouldn't mind being sucked out and thrown into the ocean.

For some reason our brains filter out so much information, and for some reason that filtered information is so much more interesting just because it is filtered out.

Although the illusion is created by ourselves, I would like to escape it. But it is not as simple as trancending the physical plane by yuorself. As the Dear Lady Salvia showed me a few days ago, the illusion is created collectively. It is not enough to tear at the walls of our culture's present reality tunnel one at a time. We need to (self)organize (inthe meaning that it will happen spontaneously once critical mass has been reached) and tear the wall down together.

It will give way to a new dimension of language and way of understanding this matrix (which is an actual word you know, it existed before the film, look it up!) of (pseudo)conscious entities. Once we get to the point I got a glimpse at in a vision once, we will be able to act fully as transparent cells of a greater organism. We will have completely open communication, and that will eradicate all the misconsceptions we have about each other.

I have seen the eschaton, and I vote for that we try to tear our cultural walls down before we reach it, because it will not be all good. It is not what we think it might be. It might not be evil/bad either, but I don't favour that option. The option of going wherever the river of history takes us. In my mind, the option of escaping this fate is much more promising. Much more fulfilling.

The universe is not all good. It knows it's own best, and that is to experience all there is. Which for us, currently, means a predatory univers. We must not necesarily be swallowed by the "god" that it is sometimes called. It craves your experience. I "eats" your soul. It might not be as bad as I portrait it, but I want to have a choice, and if there's a default, I will go against it, no matter what it is. Just for the principle of it. It doesn't make for any more "free will" but perhaps I won't joing the "mainstream", and that will be enough for me. I don't care that much for the human animal, so wherever I get to see the least of them in the afterlife is okay for me.

I am getting into a serious ramble now, and I think my consumption of alcohol might have something to do with it, but nevertheless.

As for being able to process stuff and keeping on track, I don't know how well Iv'e done Ulyssees, but I like to speak my mind sometimes. And now, here, seems as good a place as any to do that :smile:

So the ramble continues....:

The human fate is one of self-doubt it seems to me. I have plenty of it, I wouldn't mind sharing (which I am doing now, obviously :smile:
Doubting one's own senses is a fatal undertaking. Once you do that, anything could happen, but that makes it much more interesting, doesn't it? But then the self-doubt comes into play again. It works both ways. Once you doubt normal reality, and try to find something else, you get this little daemon that whispers into your ear all the fallacies of your thoughts (I like to call it "ego"...)

Transmission end. I should get some sleep now, and get this vile chemical out of my body. It makes me say things I mean. Nasty, isn't it! :smile:

And, since I never know when to stop, I will of course have a few(?) last words for the night:
Don't ever even concider the blue pill. You might think the ones that chose it have an easier time, but look at their life, closely. Does it seem to you that they are any happier than you? I don't think so. They have their own troubles. There's no right or wrong. But at least we have chosen. we chose, what *did* we choose anyway?
Well, at least it made things different... It is different, isn't it? I mean, like, you know. Different. Or not?

No matter what you think/believe, you are wrong, you will always remain ignorant. But you will learn, and what you learn will proove to be just as wrong as your last fancies. But there's no need for despair, for, I'll let you find that one out for yourself...


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--
Eternally boggled, flummoxed, bewildered and surprised.
theophagy.org


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InvisibleUlysees
Power of Lard

Registered: 10/06/01
Posts: 5,060
Re: Red/Blue Pill? [Re: Timeleech]
    #474046 - 11/29/01 10:05 PM (15 years, 8 months ago)

I'm pretty sure that made a lot of sense... Ya, I think it did. That's more or less what I think might be a possibility (it was so long I don't want to commit too fully, heh heh). The only thing that stuck out (in a negative way) was this:

"It will give way to a new dimension of language and way of understanding this matrix (which is an actual word you know, it existed before the film, look it up!)"

I was using the word "matrix" in referance to the movie, but yes I do know it's a word. (And one of my favorites at that.)
Anyhow, keep up the good work, don't go too insane. ;) (how come my smileys are always stupid looking colons and shit. Am I missing something?)

Oh ya, I also have a tendancy toward afterthoughts...
I wouldn't get my hopes up too high about the masses suddenly "breaking through". It's hard enough for those who seek, let alone the common blissfully ignorant though still troubled person. And yes, I have been liberated of a lot of stress and common worries, so there is an upside. (It's not all shit. I'm not sure if it get's better or worse from here though, cause I by no means consider myself done...)


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OfflineTimeleech
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Registered: 10/04/01
Posts: 590
Loc: Norway
Last seen: 14 years, 5 days
Re: Red/Blue Pill? [Re: Ulysees]
    #474740 - 11/30/01 01:57 PM (15 years, 8 months ago)

>Anyhow, keep up the good work, don't go too insane. :wink:
Too late I am afraid, at least that's what the people who know me the best think... :smile: I fear I might be too influenced by McKenna and Castaneda..

to get the smileys you have to write a "[" then "smile" and a "]" again. Look at the FAQ

>I wouldn't get my hopes up too high about the masses suddenly "breaking through".

I tend to swing madly from ?ber-optimistic to powerfully pessimistic, so on any other day my post could have looked quite differently... I strain to be optimistic though, it's just that in my optimistic mode I get wildly speculatory and pretty far out. My pessimistic-mode is my realistic-mode as well...

>I was using the word "matrix" in referance to the movie, but yes I do know it's a word.

Good, becaus most people Iv'e met never knew that word before the film came, the uneducated lot! :smile:

>It's hard enough for those who seek, let alone the common blissfully ignorant though still troubled person. And yes, I have been liberated of a lot of stress and common worries, so there is an upside. (It's not all shit. I'm not sure if it get's better or worse from here though, cause I by no means consider myself done...)

Tell me about it! Often I feel no more "enlightened" than the general throng, even less so when I get too many doubts about myself. But I can't risk the eternal boredom of the normal people, even if it is what is ultimately true. I'd rather ride the rollercoaster that my mind is.



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--
Eternally boggled, flummoxed, bewildered and surprised.
theophagy.org


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OfflineAmoeba665
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Registered: 05/24/00
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Re: Red/Blue Pill? [Re: Timeleech]
    #474785 - 11/30/01 02:33 PM (15 years, 8 months ago)

the thing that bugs me the most, i think, is what you were saying about always remaining ignorant and finding new falsehoods to replace old ones. how can we progress in any direction when we are basing our progress on falsehoods? if you let your self-doubt get so far as to make you doubt the things that you've come to believe as truth, then how can you be enlightened if you don't believe in the enlightenment? but on the other hand, if you decide to take a leap of faith and accept that the things that you believe are true are true, then where does that leap of faith stop? i mean, even things like "i exist", "the universe is ancient, or infinite", "the universe is perfect and ordered in its randomness", "energy exists in all things", even if these things seem to be physically true, we're still taking a leap of faith because we don't *know* that they are true, we only assume based on what we have uncovered so far. so it the point just to take little tiny leaps of faith, little by little, until you reach an answer and no longer have any self-doubt? in which case, isn't it so much easier to just skip all that work and just have faith in something like christianity, or hinduism, or whatever?

sometimes i wonder if everybody who ever thinks they've found any truth spiritually is just deluding themself... i hope not, but maybe it's just that hope that is the source of the delusion..


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OfflineTimeleech
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Registered: 10/04/01
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Re: Red/Blue Pill? [Re: Amoeba665]
    #474966 - 11/30/01 05:03 PM (15 years, 8 months ago)

>the thing that bugs me the most, i think, is what you were saying about always remaining ignorant and finding new falsehoods to replace old ones.

I could have expressed myself clearer. What I believe is that there is always room for progress, we will never arrive at the final truth, since the universe is eternal, imho. Just look at the human progression through time.

>how can we progress in any direction when we are basing our progress on falsehoods?

We get ideas and theories which replace old ones, as they are found not to be valid any longer. Those new ideas are replaced by even newer ones, as they too will become obsolete. The new ideas might not be as false as the ones they are based on, but just a little closer to truth. This is an eternal journey which I don't think will stop even after death.
That is what I mean, since it is a never-ending quest there is endless possibilities for us to discover the fallacies of our own theories that we base our progress on.

Not only technologically, but spiritually as well. Most people find the idea of Thor and Odin wrong, they don't believe in it. In the future I am sure humans will laugh at our spiritual practise.

>even if these things seem to be physically true, we're still taking a leap of faith because we don't *know* that they are true, we only assume based on what we have uncovered so far. so it the point just to take little tiny leaps of faith, little b!
y little, until you reach an answer and no longer have any self-doubt?

Little by little is the only available option open to us. You can either buy a finished model, or get a box of Lego and start building yourself. You then get to a point where you need new pieces, so you take them from other places of you building. If you are building something that can not sipport itself the structure will collapse and you will have to start all over again. In reality we have infinetely many parts to take from, and there is not one way of building your structure that is more correct than another.


>in which case, isn't it so much easier to just skip all that work and just have faith in something like christianity, or hinduism, or whatever?
I know, it is much easier, but the thing is, I don't think any of us are without doubt. even the most die-hard fanatics among us. (It is the fear that they might be wrong that causes them to be so extreme). When you acknowledge your doubt, it is still a great price to pay, but you will not be shattered and have such a hard time when something shakes the foundation of your beliefs. Which evidently enough is a huge source for conflict.


>sometimes i wonder if everybody who ever thinks they've found any truth spiritually is just deluding themself... i hope not, but maybe it's just that hope that is the source of the delusion..

I wonder if not everybody who thinks they have found any kind of truth is deluding themselves. I could go on iterating myself forever, but I should stop now, as my tummy growls and my mind swirls from trying to find even one solid ledge to set a foot upon


--------------------
--
Eternally boggled, flummoxed, bewildered and surprised.
theophagy.org


Edited by Timeleech (11/30/01 05:26 PM)


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InvisibleUlysees
Power of Lard

Registered: 10/06/01
Posts: 5,060
Re: Red/Blue Pill? [Re: Amoeba665]
    #475167 - 11/30/01 08:13 PM (15 years, 8 months ago)

Hmmm. How do we know what we've learned is actually true (always taking a risk on that, even with the most basic of ideas) and we're not just deluding ourselves?

Well, I think that one of the best ways to learn, is to practice non-thought. Through meditation and things like that (there are a lot of similar things...) you might find yourself "learning" a lot. I see a lot of people thinking really hard about things, imagining things, pondering them, and then deciding, "Ya, that makes sense.". I too think that it's pretty risky to think that you have somehow come up with "the truth".
So, non-though might be  the way to go in that regard. (Don't overestimate your abilities of figuring out the devine. Just channel it. If you're getting words and things, then you're probably doing it wrong...)
Just an idea. :wink: (I hope I'm not right back where I started, it's a viscious circle)


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Invisibletak
geo's henchman
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Re: Red/Blue Pill? [Re: Ulysees]
    #475538 - 12/01/01 01:56 AM (15 years, 8 months ago)

You don't need to worry. Neo is going to make it all right. I would have taken both pills at once, after asking morpheus if i could go to rxlist.com and check out the chemicals first.


--------------------
The DJ's took pills to stay awake and play for seven days.


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OfflineTimeleech
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Registered: 10/04/01
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Re: Red/Blue Pill? [Re: Ulysees]
    #475905 - 12/01/01 11:32 AM (15 years, 8 months ago)

>Hmmm. How do we know what we've learned is actually true (always taking a risk on that, even with the most basic of ideas) and we're not just deluding ourselves?
Ahhh, you see, it is exactly on the most basic ideas that we ARE deluding ourselves. I don't think we can get the perspective to tell what is true or not in our mode of existence. but maybe I just say that because I haven't had the fortune to try shrooms yet :smile:
Obviously we have to believe in something, or else, well you don't want to become like me, do you? :laugh:

>Well, I think that one of the best ways to learn, is to practice non-thought.
Most major breakthroughs inphysics where made during a walk in the forest... Silently letting the subconscious process what your mind has been occupied with for a long time.

First thing I'm going to do when I move to another city is to seek out th elocal zen-dojo and practise non-doing. (I don't seem to be doing anything these days anyway, but, Iv'e heard it's different :laugh:)

>(I hope I'm not right back where I started, it's a viscious circle)
I feel like I'm doing that all the time. It's like having a stack of cards with words on and giving out every third card. then you giv out every third card of the stack you have left, and so on. In the end you said the same thing X times over, but with slightly different words, and always lacking the whole picture...


--------------------
--
Eternally boggled, flummoxed, bewildered and surprised.
theophagy.org


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