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Offlinejohnnyfive
Burning withCircles!
Registered: 07/02/02
Posts: 886
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Last seen: 12 years, 6 months
What is the matrix?
    #1468871 - 04/18/03 12:37 AM (13 years, 7 months ago)

If people like it i'll post more of this series. I would have posted all of it, but its too big, so i'll post in the introduciton. This isn't something i wrote, but something that i found on my computer, and i don't know were it came from.

[[[[

The Matrix and the Holographic Model
by Jamie Walsh
The Matrix is one of the most significant movies ever made. It presents a basic world-view as fiction, which is, in fact based in reality. The ideas in the Matrix are significant because they reveal to the public much of what modern science is 'finding out' about the nature of reality, and these ideas are a Pandora's box with consequences that I can't begin to imagine. The box is open.
I believe it is likely that this movie is a huge step in a Satanic plan for 'prepping' our society for some huge developments involving a major break in the veil between the 'physical' and the 'spiritual' world.
The Matrix gives an extremely clear presentation of the Satanic plan of autonomous salvation. The idea of this movie is an extremely powerful distillation of the same plan that has been presented to man by Satan since the Garden of Eden.
The Basic Plan
1. Man lives in bondage as a creature.
2. There is an outside influence keeping man in bondage. (God and not mechanical intelligences)
3. Salvation from the bondage involves 'waking up' from the dream - transcending creature-hood (Ye shall be as gods) This awakening will be an awakening into true autonomous freedom.
4. This Salvation is hinged upon mankind realizing his 'potential' as a god - specifically in learning the techniques of manipulating reality. (sorcery)
The Details Required for Execution of the Plan.
1. "Physical Reality" is not as 'cut and dry' as we believe in the late 20th century. The line between the physical and the mental/spiritual is not as solid as we moderners normally assume.
2. The world around us is an illusion.
3. Mankind can learn to bend and break the normal rules of "physical reality".
4. This ability is the key to realizing autonomy from the tyranny of our oppressor.
The way the movie is presented is extremely clever in that it builds up a shell of implausibility with the whole mechanical intelligence idea so as to disarm the viewer and prepare him for a presentation of ideas about our reality. The Matrix presents ideas/techniques which have normally been the domain of advanced sorcerers, and does it in such a way that the viewer doesn't consciously realize that the ideas are being presented.
The basic idea of the movie is that reality is an illusion perpetrated by an outside force. All of reality is like a huge collective dream. The force presenting the illusion does so for the purpose of keeping mankind in bondage to serve their purposes. The hero of the story 'wakes up' and learns to break free of the dream and to challenge the evil forces who are creating the whole thing as a means of keeping man in bondage and in subjection to their needs. This is a movie about the ultimate dream of fallen man originally presented by Satan - "Ye shall be as gods". The final lines of the movie are directed at God. They are something to the effect of "I'm gonna show these people what YOU don't want them to see, a world without YOU - a world without rules or boundaries, and I don't know how it's gonna end, but I know this is the beginning" - The hero then hangs up the phone and soars into the air. - truly liberated.
This movie teaches a basic structure of reality which (minus the sci-fi mechanical intelligence that is outside the matrix) is a perverted version of the truth. The idea is that the physical world is not really 'solid' and that the 'rules' of the physical world can be bent or broken. This is true. This fact is exactly what is in view in the many Biblical prohibitions of Sorcery.
Some of the scenes in the movie are directly out of books by Carlos Castaneda; an anthropology professor who became the student of a real Yaqui Indian sorcerer called Don Juan. Over years of training he learned that the world is not as it seems, and that one can 'get outside' of normal reality by learning to 'stop the world' and really 'see' the way things are. He learned that we, in our normal state do not really see the raw form of things, but our 'perception' of the world. This is true, but the 'perception' is exactly what God wants us to see, and any attempt to get beyond this perception is sorcery. Castaneda's books were a major step in introducing these ideas to the American public.
The Matrix is a movie about Sorcery. Sorcery is real. It is art of tampering with reality. The Cartesian view of the world is totally irrelevant to the true nature of reality. Creation is much more amazing and strange than any of us can imagine. Since soon after creation, there have always been those who have been able to tamper with reality. This art is explicitly forbidden in the Bible again and again -- not because it is not real, but because it is ethically wrong. Jannes and Jambres did know how to change a staff into a serpent. Now, very recently, sorcery is getting a MAJOR face-lift -- now it's clothed in terms like 'quantum reality', 'inter-dimensional communication', 'techno-shamanism', etc.

Sorcery and The Two Models for Science
In Genesis we see accounts of 2 types of science, God centered 'categorizing' and the Satanic quest for knowledge apart from God.
Gen 2:19 And out of the ground the LORD God formed every beast of the field, and every fowl of the air; and brought them unto Adam to see what he would call them: and whatsoever Adam called every living creature, that was the name thereof.
Here we see the first recorded act of Science. Adam classified all living creatures. For much of history, this has been the model for science. Science can only rightly be classification of what already is. And must be subject to God.
Then we see the other model of science. The satanic model. Now the serpent was more subtle than any beast of the field which the LORD God had made.
And he said unto the woman, Yea, hath God said, Ye shall not eat of every tree of the garden? 3:2 And the woman said unto the serpent, We may eat of the fruit of the trees of the garden: 3:3 But of the fruit of the tree which is in the midst of the garden, God hath said, Ye shall not eat of it, neither shall ye touch it, lest ye die. 3:4 And the serpent said unto the woman, Ye shall not surely die: 3:5 For God doth know that in the day ye eat thereof, then your eyes shall be opened, and ye shall be as gods, knowing good and evil. 3:6 And when the woman saw that the tree was good for food, and that it was pleasant to the eyes, and a tree to be desired to make one wise, she took of the fruit thereof, and did eat, and gave also unto her husband with her; and he did eat. 3:7 And the eyes of them both were opened, and they knew that they were naked; and they sewed fig leaves together, and made themselves aprons.
In this account Eve plays the role of the modern scientist. Satan instigates her to obtain unlawful knowledge. He entreats her to think freely. To be free from God's restraints on her thoughts. She knew what God had said, but she put it aside and looked with her own eyes to see that the tree was 'to be desired to make one wise'. What was the promise held out to Eve to tempt her to eat? Satan told her that she would 'be as gods' - Is this not the goal of all modern science? To be as gods?

Satan's goal has never really changed, he just changes tactics through time. The current aim of modern science is a self-stated desire to transcend humanity. This was not clear for the first 300 years of Satan's time on earth, (since the Reformation) but each successive generation has been led further down the path of the realization of this goal. Now in the last quarter of the 20th century, the most 'progressive' practitioners of Satanic science state this goal clearly.
Sorcery is the ultimate end of modern science. Sorcery can be described as the unlawful tinkering with reality. The Spirit world is just as real as the physical world and it is accessible through various methods. Sorcerers are those who know the methods to interact with the world of the elohim. They can break physical laws and communicate with demons.
All through time, select individuals have known this 'secret knowledge'.
The Bible gives several accounts of real sorcerers. Consider Jannes and Jambres and Simon Magus. Now, modern science in the name of Quantum Mechanics is about to fully understand the mechanisms by which sorcery works. Satan has been leading modern man down this path for 300 years.
The people that made this movie have real knowledge of these things.
Even the martial arts scenes are based in reality. A TRUE martial artist is not mainly 'stronger' or 'faster' than an untrained person. They have learned the secret of moving outside of the normal constraints of the physical world. They move 'outside the matrix'. That is why there is such an emphasis on meditation etc in real martial arts. changes in your consciousness can really manifest as real changes in the ''physical' world.

]]]]]


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And the gameshow host rings the buzzer (brrnnntt) oh and now you get a face full of face!


Edited by johnnyfive (04/20/03 01:47 PM)


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Offlinejohnnyfive
Burning withCircles!
Registered: 07/02/02
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Re: What is the matrix? (1) [Re: johnnyfive]
    #1468877 - 04/18/03 12:41 AM (13 years, 7 months ago)

{{{I have wondered why G-d punished Adam and Eve for eating the fruit.
I know that the bible said they disobeyed G-d. I don't think that
G-d told Eve not to eat, but it does say He told Adam.
My problem is that Adam and Eve did not have the ability to judge good from evil. G-d did not give them that ability. G-d did not want them to know good from evil. That is evident.
How can G-d punish them for something that He himself kept from them.
Adam or Eve didn't know that it was bad,evil to disobey G-d. They didn't even know it was good to obey G-d.
Eve reached for knowledge. I wonder if they just walked out of the garden of Eden because they were put there to work/labor the Garden. Why did the Garden need a worker? G-d was in charge of it wasn't He. Did He have weeds there too?
Sitchen has some good alternative thoughts on the subject. But from the begining of the KJV bible it doesn't make a whole lot of sense.
}}}}}}

Something else i found at other religons site


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And the gameshow host rings the buzzer (brrnnntt) oh and now you get a face full of face!


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OfflineMurex
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Re: What is the matrix? (1) [Re: johnnyfive]
    #1468892 - 04/18/03 12:50 AM (13 years, 7 months ago)

I saw the trailer for Reloaded............it looks fukin bad ass!


--------------------
What if everything around you
Isn't quite as it seems?
What if all the world you think you know,
Is an elaborate dream?
And if you look at your reflection,
Is it all you want it to be?



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Invisiblebert
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Registered: 10/14/02
Posts: 2,819
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Re: What is the matrix? (1) [Re: johnnyfive]
    #1468895 - 04/18/03 12:52 AM (13 years, 7 months ago)

I really think this is a misinterpretation of the matrix. I don't see how 'sorcery' plays into this at all. I thought the meaning behind the movie was something that everyone should be exposed to. Sadly, most teenagers only went to see it for the 'neat-o special effects'. Oh well.


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Persons denying the existence of robots may be robots themselves.


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OfflineMurex
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Re: What is the matrix? (1) [Re: johnnyfive]
    #1468901 - 04/18/03 12:54 AM (13 years, 7 months ago)

My problem is that Adam and Eve did not have the ability to judge good from evil. G-d did not give them that ability. G-d did not want them to know good from evil. That is evident.

Good point! I think the 'forbidden fruit' was mushrooms. Adam and Eve knew what was up after tripping. God was imprisoning them and sheltered them from the rest of the universe and reality. Eventually, curiosity got them what they wanted............in a way.


--------------------
What if everything around you
Isn't quite as it seems?
What if all the world you think you know,
Is an elaborate dream?
And if you look at your reflection,
Is it all you want it to be?



Edited by Murex (04/18/03 12:58 AM)


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Offlinejohnnyfive
Burning withCircles!
Registered: 07/02/02
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Re: What is the matrix? (1) [Re: Murex]
    #1468924 - 04/18/03 01:08 AM (13 years, 7 months ago)

I think that the forbidden fruit is a psychedelic chemical in any form.


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And the gameshow host rings the buzzer (brrnnntt) oh and now you get a face full of face!


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OfflineSWAY
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Re: What is the matrix? (1) [Re: Murex]
    #1468971 - 04/18/03 01:26 AM (13 years, 7 months ago)

amazing.... i am stunned, i do very much believe in reality being what we make it, and the matrix does make a good example.. not perfect for the way i see it but still a good example and everybody has seen it so its awesome

ok before i say this next part you can call me crazy cuz i am crazy, but anyway... i DO VERY MUCH believe in reality being something that can be anything we want it to be, it can be changed by using our minds, the mind is what creates the reality i believe, and then you believe its reality and then u believe that there is certain rules like they say in the matrix, i do believe rules can be broken cuz nobody lays down rules just like nobody lays down right and wrong (cuz they dont exist!) and in other words there is no such thing as rules
I think ive bent reality before with out the use of drugs or hardly anything but an open mind and imagination and serious questioning and i think nothing really exists unless we see it as existing so pretty much whatever we think is what goes, so for example: if jim thinks the apple is blue and delicious and is shaped like a pear then it ultimately IS FOR HIM, there is no such thing as truth and lie...and right and wrong and that is talked about in another thread i believe...
Reality can be molded into whatever you like and made however you want and if you dont want to believe this then just go on with your normal life or think this idea is evil and ignore it and dont read further or say that questioning things like these and spreading ideas are 'evil' but knowledge is a dangerous thing it seems, i think that i was brought up thinking that you can only do 'this' and 'that' but now after all this time since i was born i think im finally piecing together what i think ive felt all my life and thats the feeling that what i thought reality is.. is actually what i make it, you only see what you want to see and believe what you want to believe and you can make your dreams and see reality however you want to so if jim wants that apple to suddenly be disgusting purple and shaped like an orange than it WILL BE for him, others may disagree and say hes fulla it but hes not full of it at all and neither are they and its just how they see it as but they can see it as anything they want it to be and you always see what you want to see regardless if its good or bad or whatever

I feel sometimes that i might be getting onto something amazing but my implanted (by growing up in this closed minded world where knowledge is dangerous to have) feelings say 'no no, your over reacting and being over dramatic and thats not real' but like in the matrix morpheus says 'what is real? its simply electrical signals interpreted by your brain' this is true! and anything is possible so who says our minds are not in another place or reality or that our spirits are dreaming and this is just one of the dreams, the possibilities are endless and it makes me feel so good to think about it and how i love to believe what i want to believe

I choose to believe that anything that i believe in is REAL for me, so now im going to believe strongly in myself and keep telling myself that what i thought reality was is a dream and im going to eventually be able to do whatever i want to and its just a matter of time of getting to know my mind and how i can shape my own reality for myself....

sorry i could go on forever about this topic.., cuz this topic kicks ass!

open your eyes and minds and give ideas like these a chance, you never know it might have an incredible effect on your life

S W A Y


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?People keep searching for happines in the outside, what they don't know is that it's in the inside?
?In an infinite universe, anything that can exist, must exist? Bear
?To think too long about doing a thing often becomes its undoing? Eva Young


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InvisibleRevelation

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Re: What is the matrix? (1) [Re: SWAY]
    #1469532 - 04/18/03 08:22 AM (13 years, 7 months ago)

I agree to an extent. The values on which we base our own society do not stand up under scrutiny. Countries, possessions, even morality could be said not to exist outside of our imaginations. And it is these structures which shape our reality. It is very much "a prison for your mind". The prison is self created in as much as we are able to step outside of it and view things from a different angle. For me, mushrooms are the key. I think what we learn from psychedelics is that 'the way things are' is only one way that things could be, and the possibilities are as infinite as our collective imagination. When I take mushrooms, I become free from my 'self'. The ego which is required in order to function in consensus reality is erased, and what is left is pure creative ecstasy. It's living in the now, and in the now we are free.


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Offlinejimsuzo
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Re: What is the matrix? (1) [Re: Murex]
    #1469814 - 04/18/03 11:28 AM (13 years, 7 months ago)

yer absolutely right. The forbidden fruit was without question, and unfortunately still is, magic mushrooms.

on a related point, Ever wonder why Hindus hold cows sacred? it's gotta be the shrooms.


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There are roughly nine galaxies for every person alive on the planet today. Each of these galaxies has a billion suns, give or take the odd hundred million


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InvisibleFreakQlibrium
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Re: What is the matrix? (1) [Re: jimsuzo]
    #1470015 - 04/18/03 12:39 PM (13 years, 7 months ago)

http://www.straightdope.com/columns/020621.html

"Some of the scenes in the movie are directly out of books by Carlos Castaneda; an anthropology professor who became the student of a real Yaqui Indian sorcerer called Don Juan. Over years of training he learned that the world is not as it seems, and that one can 'get outside' of normal reality by learning to 'stop the world' and really 'see' the way things are. He learned that we, in our normal state do not really see the raw form of things, but our 'perception' of the world. This is true, but the 'perception' is exactly what God wants us to see, and any attempt to get beyond this perception is sorcery. Castaneda's books were a major step in introducing these ideas to the American public."

B4 you get too carried away by Castenda's books as being representative of any "Truths" you might like to try clicking on the link i provided and have a peek


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"Being crazier than a shithouse rat is not sufficient grounds for banishment"



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OfflineDellComputers
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Re: What is the matrix? (1) [Re: jimsuzo]
    #1470027 - 04/18/03 12:41 PM (13 years, 7 months ago)

Well, I think the matrix was a movie. A pretty good movie. And no matter how radical the idea may sound or how much sense it makes when you 'apply it' to life.....it's still only a movie. The creators of the matrix arent exposing the 'truths' of the world. They made a clever movie..thats about it.


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:stash: + :bong: = :smile:


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Offlinesoylent_green
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Re: What is the matrix? (1) [Re: DellComputers]
    #1470526 - 04/18/03 03:20 PM (13 years, 7 months ago)

i thought it was a theroy long befor it was a movie?


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What fun is it in Nirvana while other beings are suffering?


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InvisibleMiddlemanM

Registered: 07/12/99
Posts: 7,590
Re: What is the matrix? (1) [Re: soylent_green]
    #1470779 - 04/18/03 05:12 PM (13 years, 7 months ago)

there have been many "matrix" theories long before the movie.

random matrix theory, combinatorial matrix theory, hyperspacial matrix...

what's your vector victor?

that headline post by Jamie Walsh is a complete misinterpretation of the Platonian and Pythagorian aspects of the myth.. er, movie.

as a gnostic, nothing burns my ass like near-sighted literalistic fundamentalism...

we need to borrow d's code from deoxy that replaces the words God, Satan, Good and Evil with a picture of Mr. Spock.

we could use a mushroom or something...


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Offlinejohnnyfive
Burning withCircles!
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Re: What is the matrix? [Re: johnnyfive]
    #1476377 - 04/20/03 01:48 PM (13 years, 7 months ago)

[[[[[[
The special effects in the movie where the fighters move so fast that their hands blur is EXACTLY what it really looks like in real life (to the one doing it). People watching generally don't see it since our eyes generally only register 30 fps or so. I'm speaking from experience here. Before I was saved, I got very deeply into 'modifying reality' and could never explain some of the things I experienced any better than they are presented on the screen in this movie.
Quantum Theory is stumbling onto these same concepts- the idea of the wave/particle duality of all things on the quantum level. The idea that, only when objects are observed do they manifest as 'particles, immediately collapsing to waves when observation ceases.
These scientists are fumbling over the truth. Being unsaved they have no ability to correctly interpret their 'data' into a true picture of the world. I believe that by applying a Biblical world-view to the findings of Quantum Mechanics, we can understand the form and structure of creation better than ever before in history.
The world is 'figuring this out' and I believe that some real Christians had better seriously consider the implications of all of these findings and interpret them through open eyes.
Christians are totally on the sidelines when it comes to understanding the implications of modern science. The most major "advances" in science's knowledge about reality which has ever occurred are going on right now and Christians have NOTHING to say about them. This cannot continue.
There is no fundamental difference between the natures of mind and matter - This idea, which is the basis for Neoplatonism and is pervasive in modern thought, possibly even more so in the modern Church, is Greek in origin and is not Biblical. The Bible presents a different distinction -- the distinction between creation and the Creator.
Starting with Newton and his era, the world has been seen as mechanical -- tables and chairs and rocks and trees are 'matter' made of ''atoms' and mind/consciousness is something altogether different.
Modern science is now 'discovering' what many Eastern cultures have always known -- that mind/matter are really different forms of the same thing. Reading the Bible, you will not find any indication that there is a fundamental difference between mind and matter -- instead -- once there was nothing, and then God created the universe -- the something.
To really understand the nature of reality you need to look with regenerate eyes at the natural revelation. Modern Quantum theory represents a major advance in mankind's understanding of the structure of creation.
The problem is, as usual, fallen man is pursuing knowledge on his own terms and, while gaining accurate data, is not subjecting the findings to God's law word.
Creation IS like the Matrix. It is a construct created by God in a strikingly similar fashion to that presented in the movie.
The 'heroes' of this movie are the champions of Lucifer -- they seek to liberate mankind from the tyranny of God. This movie is so successful because it hits a subconscious chord with mankind. (it also has some great special effects)..
Everyone DOES know that God exists and that he is in charge. All unsaved humanity does seek to be free of what they see as his 'tyranny'. We are at a threshold in history. Never before have the techniques of 'breaking free' - the techniques of sorcery, been so close to being presented to the general public. And the presentation is such that it bypasses all 'religious' terminology.
Since shortly after the Reformation, Satan has been systematically guiding mankind along a path of 'enlightenment'. Actually this has been going on since the garden, but this particular 'push' has been going on since he was defeated in a major way at the 'war in heaven' that was the Reformation. The basic theme has been a removal of the Biblical God from all areas of 'modern' thought and then replacing God with man. The mechanistic, Cartesian world view was an incredibly important aspect of this move. We've seen it's fruits in every area of modern thought, from our origins (evolution) to psychology, sociology, anthropology, etc.
This view was largely successful in removing God from mankind's world-view. Now we are well into the next stage. The mechanistic view is dead and mankind is starting to rediscover the 'supernatural'. This is easily seen in the dramatic rise in interest in the paranormal, in UFOs, in P.S.I. - This is an educated and extremely thorough attempt by Satan to replace God with man and to retell the same lie - 'Ye shall be as god's' -
The goal of all modern science is to be as gods and the next step in this goal is a major resurgence of the 'science' of sorcery. I believe that as we approach the end of the 6th millennium of world history we are approaching the realization of 666. Six is the number of man - the day on which he was created. 666 represents the culmination of mankind's attempt to transcend creaturehood. Just as holy, holy, holy emphasizes God's holiness in Scripture, so 666 emphasizes mankind's attempt to be something more -- but it will never get past 666. This movie lays out the groundwork for the final push by Satan to try and present mankind with the final plan of an attempt at autonomous salvation. Salvation from the tyranny of God and into self-actuated transcendence to godhood.
Of course, it will not work. God will not let it. Satan's plans will be foiled and he will be removed from the earth and cast into the pit. Then the millennium will begin - The Sabbath Millennium - The 7th thousand year period since creation. Ireneaus was onto this basic idea over 1500 years ago.
>From Irenaeus Book 5 Chapter 28
"For in as many days as this world was made, in so many thousand years shall it be concluded. And for this reason the Scripture says: "Thus the heaven and the earth were finished, and all their adornment. And God brought to a conclusion upon the sixth day the works that He had made; and God rested upon the seventh day from all His works." This is an account of the things formerly created, as also it is a prophecy of what is to come. For the day of the Lord is as a thousand years; and in six days created things were completed: it is evident, therefore, that they will come to an end at the sixth thousand year."
History is a reflex of Creation - just as Creation was 6 days of work and 1 day of rest, so history is six thousand years of 'work' and one thousand years of rest. What better definition of the Biblical 'millennium' but 'a thousand years rest'
The visions of Daniel and Revelation are ONE VISION unfolded more clearly throughout history. Revelation is not primarily about the end of the world, it is about all of history from Christ until the Second Coming.
Revelation is exactly what it says - 'The Revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave unto him, to show unto his servants things which must shortly come to pass...' -- Revelations is primarily the story of history between Christ's first coming and his second. It is basically chronological with a few 'asides'. It details (some of the particulars are certainly off here, but its a general idea)..
-The time of John until the Overthrow of Pagan Idolatry in Roman Empire
- the 6 seals.
- The Fall of the Roman Empire in the West - The first four trumpets
- The Rise of Islam - The first two woes.
- The Rise the little horn (who influences the world for 1260 literal years) - This is understood to commence with the rise of the Pope as temporal prince in approx 756AD. This is when the saints are given into the little horns hand for 'a time, times, and half a time.(360+720+180=1260)
- This 1260 years is split as follows:
- --1. The Dragon in heaven (or civil and ecclesiastical rule -- the Papacy) - obviously heaven is not literally 'heaven' here since --there is war in this 'heaven'
- --2. war in heaven in which the saints "...overcame him by the blood of the Lamb, and by the word of their testimony; and they --loved not their lives unto the death." Rev 12:11 -- the Reformation in which antichrist was definitively cast from heaven to --earth. The Martyrs.
- --3. The Dragon on Earth - the time since the Reformation until now -Marked by the dragon 'flooding' the earth with heresy.. mainly in the shape of modern humanistic thought - evolution, psychology, sociology, etc,etc -- all satanic to the core. This is the way that the earth is deceived from the time of the Reformation until the end of the 1260 years. The end of the 1260 years is sometime around 2016. -
- --4. One final direct assault on the true church (Rev 12:17) - this is, I believe, what is coming in the not-too-distant future.
- Then comes some sort of final judgment on Babylon (the vials) and the removal of Satan from the world.
- The Millennium - a literal thousand years of unfettered progress of the gospel and mankind in general (in subjection to Christ). --This is where all the 'good stuff' predicted in the Bible happens -- living to old ages again, beating of swords into --plowshares, etc.
- Satan released again for a short time at the end of the millennium
- The Second Coming
- The Judgment
- The New Heavens and the New Earth
I realize this eschatology is utterly foreign these days. But this basic idea was UNIFORMLY orthodox for the entire history of the Christian church up to the Reformation. It is the view presented throughout the original Geneva Study Bible.
It is the view by which the Reformers understood they were fighting the 'war in heaven' and indeed 'loved not their lives to the death but "overcame him by the blood of the Lamb, and by the word of their testimony; and they loved not their lives unto the death." Rev 12:11
The only question throughout the history of the church was whether Christ was going to return before the millennium of after the millennium. Almost everyone understood the basic framework that Revelation is the story of History since Christ.
The great majority favored a Post-millennial view. This view called 'Historic Postmillennialism' is virtually GONE today -- it is as if it has been systematically removed from all records. I believe it is clearly the correct interpretation and needs to be seriously considered once again.
I believe that we are currently in the last part of the 1260 years of Satan on Earth - If this is true, we've got some very interesting times ahead. Culminating in Armageddon and the ushering in of the Millennium sometime within the next hundred years or so.
All of this interest in the supernatural etc is in preparation for Satans final assault on the people of God before the Millennium
Rev 12:17 And the dragon was wroth with the woman, and went to make war with the remnant of her seed, which keep the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ.
The last beast comes up out of the Earth - out of the place that Satan was cast at the Reformation - out of man-centered autonomous thought.
13:11 And I beheld another beast coming up out of the earth; and he had two horns like a lamb, and he spake as a dragon. 13:12 And he exerciseth all the power of the first beast before him, and causeth the earth and them which dwell therein to worship the first beast, whose deadly wound was healed. 13:13 And he doeth great wonders, so that he maketh fire come down from heaven on the earth in the sight of men, 13:14 And deceiveth them that dwell on the earth by the means of those miracles which he had power to do in the sight of the beast; saying to them that dwell on the earth, that they should make an image to the beast, which had the wound by a sword, and did live.
It remains to be seen how this will play out but this is the basic time which I believe we are entering.
The Holographic Model of Creation
God created the universe, and the method which he employed is much more amazing and awesome than that presented in a typical Cartesian view of 'matter'. I believe that the basic structure of 'physical' reality is best understood by examining the nature of the Hologram.
David Bohm was one of the leading Quantum Theorists of the 20th Century. His book, Quantum Theory, is one of the major textbooks on the subject still used today.
In his book "Wholeness and the Implicate Order" he postulates that much of the anomalies and paradoxes of Quantum Mechanics can be described by the idea that what we see as reality is actually a projection from another order.
What we see he calls the 'explicate order', but it is merely a projection from the 'Implicate Order'. This view explains many of the problems of a mechanistic view of reality. He postulates that the hologram is an accurate model of reality.
A hologram is not a 'trick' or 'technological wonder'. It is simply an image made from the interaction of 2 wave forms -- one of pure laser light and one of the same laser light bounced off the object to be modeled. The resulting wave form is captured on film. This is the most basic method of capturing an image of 'reality' on film. It is even more fundamental than an image made with a lens. In its raw form the 'diffraction pattern' on the film looks somewhat like the interaction of water waves if you threw 2 rocks into a pond close to each other.
When illuminated in a specific way, depending on the recording medium, a 3 dimensional image appears. This image looks extremely real. It is truly 3 dimensional. Or is it? What is really there? The 3 dimensional image or the 2 dimensional wave-form? Both are really there. It simply depends on how you want to look at it.
Another interesting and strange property of a hologram is this. If you break a hologram into 2 pieces you don't end up with half the image on one and half the image on the other. You end up with 2 copies of the same image. break it again and you get another copy. Each time you break the hologram you get another copy of the original image albeit a fuzzier one. You can also see this by
illuminating partial portions of the hologram. (It's not the breaking that causes the phenomena) This is no trick but this is the direct result of ordered light (a laser) being reflected off of an object onto film.
A hologram is, in essence, a feature of reality. The actual creation of a hologram simply brings into relief this property or reality. With this in mind, consider a holographic image of a cube.
Look at the piece of film and ask. "Where is the upper left hand corner of this cube"? You would point to somewhere on the upper left of the film. And, in a way, you'd be right.
Now break the film into four quadrants and answer again. This time you would have four 'upper-left hand corners' and they would be in places on the film corresponding to other areas of the cube just before you broke the film. Holograms have a property of non-locality. Location on a hologram is only a working concept and is really an illusion. It is dependent on how you look at it.
Looking at the hologram as an image you can accurately point out any location on the image and as long as you keep the hologram in one piece, you are right. But once you realize that a hologram is actually a wave-interaction pattern and you ask the same question you must answer, 'The upper-left hand corner of the cube is everywhere on this image.' Or a better answer is 'The question isn't really valid -- Location is really an illusion and depends totally on your frame of reference.
In his book Flatland, Edwin Abbot postulates a world that is 2 dimensional. On this world live circles and squares and lines. This world actually exists within a 3 dimensional world but that fact is not recognized by the inhabitants of 2-land. One day, the 2's are visited by a 3 dimensional sphere, but they only see a line as the sphere passes through their world.
They are unable to perceive the 3 dimensions of the sphere since they are flat. It would take some serious science and mental gymnastics to see a point becoming a line of greater and greater length and then reducing to a point again -- and inferring that the object was actually a sphere.
Imagine a similar world - a world inside a hologram -- a hologram like the ones you see in malls and museums.
Imagine someone lived in one of these. As he looked around in his holographic world what would he see. he would see 3 dimensional images, and rightfully so.
What if you could tell him there is much more to his reality than the 3 dimensions that he perceives and that his world is actually a projection of wave forms bounced off of objects outside the hologram.
Let's call the outside world the implicate order, and that which he sees is the explicate order. Without the understanding that his world is actually made up of wave forms and not the seemingly solid objects he sees, it would be impossible for holo-man to see his world in any way other than the way it appears to him.
Now let's say holo-man is a scientist and does experiments which try to look at the building blocks of his world. He would start to see some strange things.
Some of his experiments like the EPR and double-slit might indicate that his world is actually made up of wave form interaction. Other experiments will seem to indicate that his world is made of particles when he is looking at it and waves when he is not.
The thing is, he sees 3-dimensional objects and particles all around him and that fact seems to totally contradict his experimental data which indicates that everything is actually really waves.
He might then realize that he is only really seeing what he sees because it is the way his holographic mind (remember, his entire reality is holographic therefore it is necessarily true that his mind which is made of the same stuff as everything else is holographic and functions as a hologram) interprets the wave forms that make up the object.
]]]]]]]]


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And the gameshow host rings the buzzer (brrnnntt) oh and now you get a face full of face!


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Offlinejohnnyfive
Burning withCircles!
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Re: What is the matrix? [Re: johnnyfive]
    #1476378 - 04/20/03 01:49 PM (13 years, 7 months ago)

[[[[[[[[
What does this say about the objects he sees? Are they real? Yes, but they are not the 'whole story'. His world DOES exist in a specific form independent of him the observer.
An apple he sees is there whether he is looking at it or not. but its appearance in intelligible form is totally dependent on his observation of it. the moment it is not observed it exists in its true form as wave.
The final situation in holo-man's world could be summed up as follows:
His reality is a holographic projection from another dimension. It, like the holograms we see in our world, is filled with convincingly real 3 dimensional objects including him. He, while living in a holographic
world, is also a hologram. Everything in his world is, in its raw uninterpreted form, wave interactions like those ripples on the wave of a pond. The way the waves interact to create objects is based upon what REAL objects they are models of. The wave form interactions are REAL but are, in reality only good facsimiles of the real, real objects.
Holoman's eyes receive this raw wave data and his consciousness, which is made of waves, acts as a wave form interpreter and actively constructs a picture of 'the world out there'. As long as his consciousness stays the same he will see a specific picture of the wave forms that make up his world.
If another holo-man entered the holo-world he would see the same thing as man 1 since a) the raw wave form data which is his world is the same for both and exists apart from both observers. b) Both men have the same type of consciousness.
Bohm Postulates that this is exactly how our world is constructed. He writes that the invention of the optical lens was extremely influential in the formulation of the fragmented, atomistic world view of the last 300 years, but that the Hologram is actually the better representation of all of reality. The hologram is not the anomaly, the lens is. The lens is a special case to the Hologram's general.
We are holographic minds existing in a holographic universe. Everything that we see around us is, in its raw form, made up of waves. Our consciousness is also holographic in nature. That is the reason we can create images with our minds. Our mind can interpret external raw wave forms and create pictures of those waves into recognizable objects. It than stores those images as waves on the holographic plate that is out brain. When we recall memories we are in actuality using our wave-interpreting ability on our internal world instead of on the external world.
The implication that mind actively constructs holo-stuff into 'physical
reality' is so in line with the idea that 'Man thinks God's thoughts after Him' - God Created the universe in a raw form that does not 'look like' physical reality. This raw form is analogous to the diffraction pattern on a holographic plate of film. This is the quantum-stuff'. God then created man, in his image, with the ability to 'analogically' do what God did -- God created, man recreates -- but not on his own -- his mind structures creation into the 'normal' picture of consensus reality.
Consciousness is to reality what the laser is to a hologram.
Consciousness is an integral part of reality, but unlike the Copenhagen interpretation which states that 'there is no deep reality', or the Buddhist/Mystical view that reality is 'maya' or illusion created by consciousness, what we see IS real. You see what I see because we are both 'recreating' the same underlying reality. We are TRULY 'thinking God's thoughts after him'! This fact is not limited to our logical thoughts about reality etc, but extends to every perception we have OF reality. I see a real opportunity to lay out a Presuppositional basis for understanding 'physical' reality here.
I believe this idea is the logical extent of Van Tilian apologetics.
This is why Quantum Mechanics seems to show a wave/particle duality. This duality is NOT understood in a traditional, mechanistic world view.
It is completely explained by the idea that the wave-forms are the 'raw' form of things, and that the particle-like physical reality is a product of Consciousness' 'structuring' ability. The hologram analogy is real. Nonlocality is a property of a hologram, so should be expected in a holographic universe.
The Implications - or is it Explications?
Modern Christianity really doesn't know what to make of the 'spirit world'. It is VERY real to the level where our major struggle as Christians is described by Paul as being against demonic forces.
Ephesians 6:12 For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places.
Most modern Christians do NOT believe this, and most of those that do believe it in a mostly intellectual theoretical way. Things are shaping up for a major resurgence of much more obvious demonic influence in the world, but it will not be readily apparent that the events involved are demonic in origin. They will be cloaked in 'technical' terminology and will appear to be ushering in a new era of amazing progress for humanity.
Modern Science is learning things about the nature of reality that can't easily be unlearned. Physicists in white coats are learning that to get any further in the understanding of matter they need to understand consciousness. The is a new-school of 'scientist' that is not just observing particle collisions in an accelerator, but is smoking DMT and ingesting other hallucinogens so as to better observe 'the collapse of the wave-function. Nick Herbert, a leading quantum physicist has serious plans to build a device he calls an 'Eccles Gate' - a device using 'quantum tunneling' to communicate with inter-dimensional discarnate entities' - This device will work. Communication with the Spirit world has always taken place, but now it is being done by the 'priests' of our society. And now, better than ever before, we have the tools to really understand the 'mechanisms' by which such 'inter-dimensional' communication can take place.
The entities 'on the other side' will not present themselves as they really are. They will likely present themselves as 'angels of light' and mankind is in for one.of the largest-scale deceptions in the history of the world.
hey.. i'm onto something big...

I 'broke through' to the SAME 'place' as i did last year.. that 'demon world' -- but this time it was opposite.. it was the pure good... in fact -- i think its the SAME place.. but since my focus and status before God is different (by the grace of God through the blood of Christ) - my experience is different..
I believe that what I am doing is rending the 'veil' between our current perception and what is really there... in this state I can do things that I cannot normally do.. this is not the ramblings of a madman but this is an objectively testable statement..

My girlfriend Christine went with me.. we BOTH broke through to the same 'place' or 'state'.. It was as if we both moved through a gelatinous 'barrier' or 'veil. Once through reality was FAR more REAL.. everything took on new meaning and 'solidity'.. in this state I can move incredibly fast -- 'TheMatrix style' -- and it seems i cant get hurt.. or at least im well on my way to that state.. i repeatedly threw myself headlong
onto concrete without really trying to break the fall and NO injury.. just rolled away...
also it seems that in this state there are amazingly direct lines of communication open with God. Now, i dont believe in 'new revelation' -- like when some moron says 'I had a VISION and God told me this and this... give me more money..whatever' -- All new revelation has ceased since the completion of Scripture. But I DO believe in what is called 'illumination'. Illumination is when God supernaturally 'sheds light on' his existing Word. Illumination is what causes someone to be able to understand passages in the Bible which cannot be understood by the 'natural man'. All believers experience some level of illumination.. but
what seems to be going on in this state I'm being shown is 'direct illumination' -- God seems to impart connectional understanding of his existing word.. nothing 'new'.. and even this illumination can be misunderstood.. and so must be grounded in the Scripture.

This is Huge!! I really believe the so-called millennium of the Bible is coming.. soon.. and what it is is the 'elevation' of mankind to
a state of much closer communion with the Creator.. but its not ALL good for everyone..

while in that state i shall call 'the Spirit' i started thinking about the implications of what was happening.. my thoughts turned to DMT.. and i thought -- 'hmm maybe DMT isn't bad after all' -'maybe i should try and speak reality into existence like the 'elves' told me. So I opened my mouth and started to formulate those inhuman tones which McKenna speaks of and which I have had personal experience in the past..

The MOMENT i did so.. the entire scene flashed to the 'evil' side i had seen so many times before... Christine experienced it too.. our surroundings turned from paradise to hell in about 1 second.. then as SOON as i stopped making the sound and as I realized what it was i was doing it all turned back to pure good.. God seemed to be showing me something...

then it hit US.. both Christine and I totally grocked it all.. you must understand.. she and i were experiencing the SAME thing the whole time.

It is this 'speaking reality into existence' which is forbidden! DMT is the forbidden fruit or is the modern 'portal' to the same state. It seems that angels as God's 'messengers' play some role in reality structuring. They are the stage hands and we the actors.. or something like that. In the Genesis account of creation, after each portion of the account it says that 'God saw that it was good' - and after the whole thing, Genesis 1:31 says "And God saw every thing that he had made, and, behold, it was very good" -- Creation = good.. A definition of good could be 'that which God has created. So, evil is creation apart from God. Evil is seeking to do that which only God can do.. create from nothing... I believe it was likely that the nature of the angels fall
was to seek to go beyond their status of 'messenger' and attempt to do that which only God can do.. 'DETERMINE' reality. To DETERMINE what is 'good' and 'evil' apart from God's creation of what IS 'good'. This was the temptation of Eve -- Gen 3:5 "For God doth know that in the day ye eat thereof, then your eyes shall be opened, and ye shall be as gods,
knowing good and evil." - The word 'gods' is 'elohim' - it is the same word sometimes used to describe the angels as in Psalm 8:5 (speaking of man) "For thou hast made him a little lower than the angels[elohim], and hast crowned him with glory and honour." Satan was tempting eve by telling her that she also could know or determine what IS apart from God. All God created including all truth is that which is 'good' so ANYTHING else which is not from God is that which is termed 'evil'.
I believe that when the DMT 'elves' are urging us to 'do like we do' and 'create' -- this is the same fundamental temptation as was presented to Eve. The entire universe was created by God SPEAKING it into existence.
I believe that this is a mystery but is quite literal. Gen 1:3 "And God said, Let there be light: and there was light." - For God, intent becomes speech and speech becomes reality. Sorcery is described by sorcerers as 'shaping reality in accord with the will' - Sorcery is the attempt to do what God alone has the right to do. And, as McKenna says,

."Something comes out of you, and you discover you can do it, that you can use language to condense objects into existence in this space. It's the DREAM OF ALL MAGIC, but here it is folks, happening in real time. And then they're just delighted. They just go mad with delight and turn somersaults and turn themselves inside out and they all jump into your chest at once."

Open your eyes! THIS is sorcery.. this is exactly what is
forbidden.. Its trying to 'sing your own tune' in God's order. Whether is be to determine that 'stealing is ok' or whether it be to do what the DMT elves are urging and to seek to 'create your own reality' apart from God.

So.. it is not the 'realm' of creation which is off-limits as i used to think, but it is your reason for 'going there' and what yo do there..
Are you seeking to go against God and to elevate yourself beyond your status of 'human' to that of 'elohim' -- or 'fallen elohim' i should say.. or are you seeking to understand this area of creation as a creature seeking to better understand his Creator so as to better enjoyhim and better seek dominion over this creation.
The veil over our perceptions is COMING DOWN before the millennium.(The Biblical 'millennium' which does not mean Jan 1,2000) I believe people on both sides are going to begin to break through and i'm not sure about hat is going to happen right now, but in the end (probably 2016 or maybe longer i dunno) God will put a complete end to the wicked side..
Or at least a very nearly complete end. Satan and his forces will be bound and cast into the bottomless pit so they can no longer deceive the nations.

Rev 20:1 And I saw an angel come down from heaven, having the key of the bottomless pit and a great chain in his hand.2 And he laid hold on the dragon, that old serpent, which is the Devil, and Satan, and bound him a thousand years, 3 And cast him into the bottomless pit, and shut him up, and set a seal upon him, that he should deceive the nations no more, till the thousand years should be fulfilled: and after that he must be loosed a little season.

Then I believe the 1000 years of 'the millennium' will involve:

Isaiah 25:7 And he will destroy in this mountain the face of the covering cast over all people, and the vail that is spread over all nations. 8 He will swallow up death in victory; and the Lord GOD will wipe away tears from off all faces; and the rebuke of his people shall he take away from off all the earth: for the LORD hath spoken it.
You see how they coincide? Satan can no longer deceive the nations and also God removes the 'vail' spread over all the nations. Those living will live in a state FAR different than we do now.. a state much more like paradise.. a state wherein we experience direct communion with God.. where we see things in his Word that have never been seen, where we no longer get hurt, or sick, or at least much less than today..a state where no one sings off-key (which is a result of the curse) and almost everyone lives to the glory of God?
I am slowly transforming -- but i am doing it specifically to increase my Godly 'dominion' over myself and my surroundings. There are no limits but those which God has specified.. The ONLY thing in the universe that is bad is sin. Doing that which is apart from the will of God. After all, Acts 17:28 says "For in him we live, and move, and have our being" - howbeit that we do that which is against his will? I am now more coordinated, faster, can sing on-key.. and its JUST the very beginning. And NONE, i repeat NONE of this is due to any inherent goodness or ability in me.. and none of it can cause me to be proud of any accomplishments i make.. just the opposite..it is utterly humbling that God is letting me in on some of this stuff.. i deserve nothing but his wrath.
]]]]]]]]]


--------------------
And the gameshow host rings the buzzer (brrnnntt) oh and now you get a face full of face!


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Offlinejohnnyfive
Burning withCircles!
Registered: 07/02/02
Posts: 886
Loc: Hell
Last seen: 12 years, 6 months
Re: What is the matrix? [Re: johnnyfive]
    #1476382 - 04/20/03 01:51 PM (13 years, 7 months ago)

Ive decided to post the rest of it, in this one post; instead of multiple posts.


--------------------
And the gameshow host rings the buzzer (brrnnntt) oh and now you get a face full of face!


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Offlinenubious
1up on the rest

Registered: 10/20/02
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Re: What is the matrix? [Re: johnnyfive]
    #1476685 - 04/20/03 05:00 PM (13 years, 7 months ago)

Good point! I think the 'forbidden fruit' was mushrooms. Adam and Eve knew what was up after tripping. God was imprisoning them and sheltered them from the rest of the universe and reality. Eventually, curiosity got them what they wanted............in a way.

So what you're saying is it's against G-d's will to eat zoomers?


yer absolutely right. The forbidden fruit was without question, and unfortunately still is, magic mushrooms.


And yet someone else, backing this up....


This leaves the question of 'what's so special about mushrooms that god doesn't want us to know about?" .. Temprorary steps into future possibilities to come through years of evolution? Aka Telepathy? Empathetic Energy transfer?


Hmm.. interesting post...


--------------------
No one knows the worth of innocence till he knows it is gone forever, and that money can't buy it back. Not the saint, but the sinner that repenteth, is he to whom the full length and breadth, and height and depth, of life's meaning is revealed. Good and evil loose all objective meaning and are seen as equally necessary and contrasting elements in the masterpiece that is the universe.


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Offlinejohnnyfive
Burning withCircles!
Registered: 07/02/02
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Re: What is the matrix? [Re: nubious]
    #1477071 - 04/20/03 07:42 PM (13 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

This leaves the question of 'what's so special about mushrooms that god doesn't want us to know about?" .. Temprorary steps into future possibilities to come through years of evolution? Aka Telepathy? Empathetic Energy transfer?





Its called takeing power away from the individual of all and putting it in one.


--------------------
And the gameshow host rings the buzzer (brrnnntt) oh and now you get a face full of face!


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OfflineMurex
Reality Hacker

Registered: 07/28/02
Posts: 3,599
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Re: What is the matrix? [Re: nubious]
    #1477790 - 04/21/03 12:21 AM (13 years, 7 months ago)

Sorry man. I mislead you. I don't believe in the Adam and Eve thing. But If it was true, I think the forbidden fruit would have been mushrooms. 'God' (or higher authority) wanted to contain these 2 souls, and in the end, Adam and Eve chose life in a more real reality by exploring the outer realms.


--------------------
What if everything around you
Isn't quite as it seems?
What if all the world you think you know,
Is an elaborate dream?
And if you look at your reflection,
Is it all you want it to be?



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InvisibleJoshua
Holoman
Male

Registered: 10/27/98
Posts: 5,389
Loc: The Matrix
Re: What is the matrix? [Re: johnnyfive]
    #1478313 - 04/21/03 08:15 AM (13 years, 7 months ago)

Excellent post! One only has to have the desire to step outside the confines of their paradigm in order to create another. As we expand the affirmament we are merely fooling ourselves into thinking we have obtained more. "As our island of knowledge grows...so does the shore of our ignorance." All is within perspective, even perspective itself. Do not run for you may stumble over the answer you are looking for. Be weary the wordy one :')

Here is a 13th century fresca depicting the tree of knowledge.


Joshua


--------------------
The Shroomery Bookstore

Great books for inquiring minds!

"Life After Death is Saprophytic!"


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