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Re: Why does The Shroomery need this forum? [Re: Rose]
    #4564815 -

For me at least mostly the spiritual part comes after I'm down and back to "normal" for awhile. It's like my friend says. "The Universe only asks one thing of us, and that is; how much can you take?"

I usually trip with committed doses alone out in wilderness places. It is usually frightening in various ways. My ego unusually struggles to maintain control and then cannot as it is overwhelmed by the strength of the psychedelic. The fear is intense. Fear of dying, or letting go and letting the universal flow take me. When surrender happens I usually end up in a bliss state. Later in my daily life when the challenges of living confront me. I find I am less afraid and can handle more. That is because of taking the challenge to take that dose and face my fear. That's how it works for me. And then of course you may get a direct vision or find a new way of thinking about things during the trip itself. It may be different for everyone. I suspect it is.  :mushroom2:


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC

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Re: Why does The Shroomery need this forum? [Re: Kerr]
    #4564868 -

RyanKerr said:
I think that spirituality is a way to make sense of the hallucinations


And vice versa


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Re: Why does The Shroomery need this forum? [Re: Icelander]
    #4565161 -

Yes, but how is seeing intangable things of the SPIRIT, any different from seeing things which do not exist?

How does one know if they are making sense of spirituality, when spirituality lives in the mind, and not (necessarily) in the world?


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Fiddlesticks.


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Re: Why does The Shroomery need this forum? [Re: Rose]
    #4565186 -

It seems impossible to verify spirituality.

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Re: Why does The Shroomery need this forum? [Re: Rose]
    #4565202 -

What makes you think things you can't see with your physical eyes do not exists? Do you see ultraviolet rays? They must not exist. Do you see the mirco waves nailing you from your microwave? they must not exist either. Can you hear a dog whistle? The dog that responds to it must be crazy. Can you smell the trail of a rabbit? The dog that follows it must be crazy.

Our five physical senses are limited to detecting a lot of whats going on around us and science is still inventing tools to detect more of it that are 5 physical senses can't.

Who knows what scientific tool will be able to detect up the road that exists that our 5 senses can't.

In the mean time, many are detecting more with their sixth sense and they discuss that extension of their experiential reality with it here.


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Ahuwale ka nane huna.

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Re: Why does The Shroomery need this forum? [Re: gettinjiggywithit]
    #4565217 -

But how do you tell the difference between a delusion and a genuine example of something beyond human perception?

You can't assume that schizophrenics and all the people in insane asylums just realize something more than other humans, because you need evidence to do that. We can gather evidence of matters beyond human perception with science, but if it can be verified neither by science nor by human perception, it would be unwise to assume it true.


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So long as you are praised think only that you are not yet on your own path but on that of another.

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Re: Why does The Shroomery need this forum? [Re: gettinjiggywithit]
    #4565218 -

Ultraviolet rays, etc, are measurable and can be experienced with the use of various tools.
Some day, we may find a tool (possibly psychedelics?) to explore spirituality and the paranormal, but for now, they remain beyond the realm of empiricalism.

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Re: Why does The Shroomery need this forum? [Re: gettinjiggywithit]
    #4565263 -

gettinjiggywithit said:
What makes you think things you can't see with your physical eyes do not exists? Do you see ultraviolet rays? They must not exist. Do you see the mirco waves nailing you from your microwave? they must not exist either. Can you hear a dog whistle? The dog that responds to it must be crazy. Can you smell the trail of a rabbit? The dog that follows it must be crazy.


Actually, I believe spirituality exists, but if you will recall from earlier in this discussion, the very definition of spirituality... describes it as intangible... immaterial. Unlike your examples, Spirituality can't be measures by instruments.

Quote:
spir?i?tu?al (spr-ch-l)
adj.
1. Of, relating to, consisting of, or having the nature of spirit; not tangible or material. See Synonyms at immaterial.
2. Of, concerned with, or affecting the soul.
3. Of, from, or relating to God; deific.
4. Of or belonging to a church or religion; sacred.
5. Relating to or having the nature of spirits or a spirit; supernatural.
n.
1.
a. A religious folk song of African-American origin.
b. A work composed in imitation of such a song.
2. Religious, spiritual, or ecclesiastical matters. Often used in the plural.


Spirituality certainly exists inside the mind. Of that there is no doubt... but I have yet to SEE it, HEAR it, TASTE it or SMELL it... because it is (by its own definition) immaterial. AND, if I said I FELT it, I could only mean EMOTIONALLY... because spirituality lives inside the mind. I do not doubt the existence of spirituality, I just don't see much expression of it, in this forum. I wish there was more, because Spirituality is a large part of the mushroom experience. It should be better understood.

In fact, the definition of spirituality is VERY similar to the definition of this word:

Quote:
hal?lu?ci?na?tion
n.

1.
1. Perception of visual, auditory, tactile, olfactory, or gustatory experiences without an external stimulus and with a compelling sense of their reality, usually resulting from a mental disorder or as a response to a drug.
2. The objects or events so perceived.
2. A false or mistaken idea; a delusion.

hal?lu'ci?na'tion?al or hal?lu'ci?na'tive adj.



So, what's the difference between Spirituality and hallucinating?

Is spirituality during the mushroom experience, just a hallucination, or is spirituality more than that?


--------------------
Fiddlesticks.


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Re: Why does The Shroomery need this forum? [Re: Ravus]
    #4565291 -

Ravus said:
But how do you tell the difference between a delusion and a genuine example of something beyond human perception?

You can't assume that schizophrenics and all the people in insane asylums just realize something more than other humans, because you need evidence to do that. We can gather evidence of matters beyond human perception with science, but if it can be verified neither by science nor by human perception, it would be unwise to assume it true.


An objective person can't know for sure. The subjective experience knows it experienced what it did and it's valid to that person in that sense. I beleive people beleive what they do. I can remain unbiased about it. It's not hard to do.

Funny you bring this up. I watched the movie A Beautiful Mind with Russel Crow playing John nash, the Nobel Prize winner for the Equilibrium Theory and Math proffessor at Princeton, again last night.

He was diagnosed with paranoid schizophrenia. The movie is fascinating to me. He said to one of his collegues that when he was on the medication, he couldn't see the answers any more to complicated math problems.

he was brilliant, extremely logic and empirical evidenced oriented and saw so much within his mind that was validated by his proffesional peers.

I had to ask, why were the answers and solutions he saw validated and not the people he saw and heard.

True, mathematical and other problematic answered can be validated. Science and math has no tool yet for validating the people and voices. Maybe that part was delusion and maybe not. I can't say they weren't for sure if everything else that came from his inner vision was validated that could be.

Why was some of what came from his far out mind accepted and not all of it at his word? I wonder this.

Anyway, in his acceptance speech, he talked about his "dis-order" leading him into all sorts of pursuits including the metaphyisical.
I wanted to google him and see if he developed any sort of scientific or mathematical explanation to himself for his schizophrenia. He also told the audience that love was the most logical highest order he found. That was cool.


--------------------
Ahuwale ka nane huna.

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Re: Why does The Shroomery need this forum? [Re: gettinjiggywithit]
    #4565600 -

Cool post... wish it proved something... but I like how you think.


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Fiddlesticks.


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Re: Why does The Shroomery need this forum? [Re: Rose]
    #4565915 -

Cervantes said:
Yes, but how is seeing intangable things of the SPIRIT, any different from seeing things which do not exist?

How does one know if they are making sense of spirituality, when spirituality lives in the mind, and not (necessarily) in the world?


I don't get what you are talking about? You live in the world and your life is spirit. As you live your life your spirituality is tested and lived out. What you think about manifests in one way or another. Spirit is tangable. Psychedelics just stimulate growth in some people.


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC

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Re: Why does The Shroomery need this forum? [Re: Icelander]
    #4566527 -

Please then if the spirit is tangible, show me your spirit, or someone else's. Send it to me, let me hold it.

When someone farts, you aren't smelling their spirit, you are smelling their last meal.

The spirit is not life, life is life. :wink:

If the spirit is more than a thought, it has yet to be proven, or defined.


--------------------
Fiddlesticks.


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Re: Why does The Shroomery need this forum? [Re: Rose]
    #4699213 -

Cervantes said:
The spirit is not life, life is life. :wink:



Spirituality is more like the being of life, the experience of life, in my opinion..... Its the state of existance of life. Spirit is the present tense action/state that is taking place. Movement, breathing, these are spirit... Primitive people were involved with this concept, I think it was later misinterpreted as being some seperate quality, when it is, in actuality, the fact that there is life in the first place.

I wouldn't say that spirit is life itself, but, in a sense, it sort of is. :grin:

:headbang: :headbang: :headbang: :satansmoking:
Peace. :mushroom2:


--------------------
:redpanda:
If I should die this very moment
I wouldn't fear
For I've never known completeness
Like being here
Wrapped in the warmth of you
Loving every breath of you
:heartpump: :bunnyhug: :yinyang:

:yinyang: :levitate: :earth: :levitate: :yinyang:

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