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Re: Why does The Shroomery need this forum? [Re: MushmanTheManic]
    #4553371 -

Quote:
If it can't be tested, it ain't a theory.



I agree, but it doesn't mean it's a philosophy either.

Many "theories" were not testable at their creation, but as science developed and technology grew better this changed. Perhaps the same will apply to M-Theory.

Though testing isn't necessarily the only way to develop science; if you know all the information around that theory then, like a puzzle missing a piece, you can formulate a hypothesis that may end up being very close to the truth using mathematics and other aids.


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So long as you are praised think only that you are not yet on your own path but on that of another.

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Re: Why does The Shroomery need this forum? [Re: Ravus]
    #4553676 -

:thumbup:

Edited by MushmanTheManic (08/18/05 10:00 PM)

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Re: Why does The Shroomery need this forum? [Re: Ravus]
    #4555597 -

It seems many scientists and linguists wish to define Spirituality, as part of the mushroom experience. Is there a better classification for them than:

http://deoxy.org/define/entheogen
Quote:
Entheogen
nov. verb.? Plant sacraments or shamanic inebriants evoking religious ecstasy or vision; commonly used in the archaic world in divination for shamanic healing, and in Holy Communion, for example during the Initiation to the Eleusinian Mysteries or the Vedic Soma sacrifice. Literally: becoming divine within. Hence: Age of Entheogens nov. verb., Entheogenic nov. verb.


1979 Ruck J. Psychedelic Drugs 11: 145. In Greek the word entheos means literally "god (theos) within"... In combination with the Greek root ?gen, which denotes the action of "becoming," this word results in the term that we are proposing: entheogen

1980 Wasson The Wondrous Mushroom, xiv. We are now rediscovering the secret and we should treat the "entheogens" with the respect to which they were richly entitled.

1986 Wasson Persephone's Quest, 31. We must break down the "Drugs" of popular parlance according to their properties and overcome our ignorance, which in this field is still monumental. "Entheogen" is a step in that direction.

1993 Ott Pharmacotheon, 19. I have been privileged to be initiated into the sacred realm of the entheogens... have imbibed the amrta of India, the ambrosia of the Olympian gods, Demeter's potion; have for brief blessed instants gazed into Lord Shiva's blazing third eye.



Would you prefer:
Quote:
psy?che?del?ic (sk-dlk)
adj.
Of, characterized by, or generating hallucinations, distortions of perception, altered states of awareness, and occasionally states resembling psychosis.
n.
A drug, such as LSD or mescaline, that produces such effects.
[psyche1 + Greek dloun, to make visible (from dlos, clear, visible; see dyeu- in Indo-European roots) + -ic.]
psyche?deli?cal?ly adv.



Or...
http://www.medterms.com/script/main/art.asp?articlekey=24170
Quote:
Definition of Hallucinogen

Hallucinogen: A drug that causes hallucinations (profound distortions in a person's perceptions of reality). Under the influence of hallucinogens, people see images, hear sounds, and feel sensations that seem real but do not exist. Some hallucinogens also produce rapid, intense emotional swings. Hallucinogens cause their effects by disrupting the interaction of nerve cells and the neurotransmitter serotonin. Distributed throughout the brain and spinal cord, the serotonin system is involved in the control of behavioral, perceptual, and regulatory systems, including mood, hunger, body temperature, sexual behavior, muscle control, and sensory perception.

LSD (an abbreviation of the German words for "lysergic acid diethylamide") is the drug most commonly identified with the term "hallucinogen" and the most widely used in this class of drugs. It is considered the typical hallucinogen, and the characteristics of its action and effects apply to the other hallucinogens, including mescaline, psilocybin, and ibogaine.



... or some other, yet to be mentioned term?


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Fiddlesticks.


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Re: Why does The Shroomery need this forum? [Re: Rose]
    #4555612 -

Mushrooms themselves are not connected to spirituality, but the reaction of psilocybin in the human brain can produce spiritual thoughts in the subject, making them believe the mushrooms themselves are somehow spiritual.

Mushrooms don't have brains; how can they be spiritual? The only thing spiritual about mushrooms is the way their chemical reactions influence the brain.

Of course, the experience could be called spiritual to some people; there's no denying that. There are so many terms to describe psychedelics like mushrooms and LSD it's really irrelevant which one you choose, as none of them will convey the experience.


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So long as you are praised think only that you are not yet on your own path but on that of another.

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Re: Why does The Shroomery need this forum? [Re: Ravus]
    #4555618 -

Heh, and as you wrote your reply, I fixed the scentence which hung you up.

Try again... and sorry for the late edit.


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Fiddlesticks.


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Re: Why does The Shroomery need this forum? [Re: Rose]
    #4555626 -

And I think psychedelic is the best term, since:

hallucinations, distortions of perception, altered states of awareness, and occasionally states resembling psychosis

are really universal to the mushroom experience. Hallucinations are just a small part of the trip, and it's not really an entheogen since a significant percentage of people who take it don't get "religious ectsasy or visions". Some kids just like to take them to distort their perception and alter their awareness without any "religious ecstasy" involved.


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So long as you are praised think only that you are not yet on your own path but on that of another.

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Re: Why does The Shroomery need this forum? [Re: Ravus]
    #4555632 -

Ravus said:
There are so many terms to describe psychedelics like mushrooms and LSD it's really irrelevant which one you choose, as none of them will convey the experience.



I disagree.

It is a FACT mindset greatly effects a trip.

Therefore the WORD which defines such, trip inducing, substances is of VITAL importance.

If mushrooms were known as, "Cowshit Psychosis" it would have a profound impact on future psychonauts.


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Fiddlesticks.


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Re: Why does The Shroomery need this forum? [Re: Rose]
    #4555659 -

To an extent you're right, but the terms we're talking about aren't common with people to begin with. Outside of LSD, mushrooms, DMT and mescaline, how many people discern between entheogens, hallucinogens and psychedelics? To a normal person, none of these terms have very much attached, unlike, say, "cowshit" or "psychosis".


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So long as you are praised think only that you are not yet on your own path but on that of another.

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Re: Why does The Shroomery need this forum? [Re: Rose]
    #4555661 -

Not all people see visualizations when they trip. It is NOT a universal experience... just common.

People have spiritual experiences while they trip... about as often as they hallucinate.

Concerning mushrooms, some would argue both words (hallucination and spiritual) mean the same thing, but their definitions are a bit different.

Quote:
spir?i?tu?al (spr-ch-l)
adj.
1. Of, relating to, consisting of, or having the nature of spirit; not tangible or material. See Synonyms at immaterial.
2. Of, concerned with, or affecting the soul.
3. Of, from, or relating to God; deific.
4. Of or belonging to a church or religion; sacred.
5. Relating to or having the nature of spirits or a spirit; supernatural.
n.
1.
a. A religious folk song of African-American origin.
b. A work composed in imitation of such a song.
2. Religious, spiritual, or ecclesiastical matters. Often used in the plural.



Quote:
hal?lu?ci?na?tion (hə-lū'sə-nā'shən)
n.

1.
1. Perception of visual, auditory, tactile, olfactory, or gustatory experiences without an external stimulus and with a compelling sense of their reality, usually resulting from a mental disorder or as a response to a drug.
2. The objects or events so perceived.
2. A false or mistaken idea; a delusion.

hal?lu'ci?na'tion?al or hal?lu'ci?na'tive adj.






Your favorite word, psychedelic, neglects to mention anything about the Spiritual experience in its definition, and lingers on several negative (cowshit psychosis) properties.

Quote:
psy?che?del?ic (sk-dlk)
adj.
Of, characterized by, or generating hallucinations, distortions of perception, altered states of awareness, and occasionally states resembling psychosis.
n.
A drug, such as LSD or mescaline, that produces such effects.
[psyche1 + Greek dloun, to make visible (from dlos, clear, visible; see dyeu- in Indo-European roots) + -ic.]
psyche?deli?cal?ly adv.



Spirituality, once defined, covers the same territory, w/o lingering on any negative qualities... therefore reducing the likelihood of negative (guilt based) trips.

Now that these words have been defined, what mental image does the word psychedelic paint? What image does "Entheogen" paint?

This, "Image" effects the trips of the informed. It effects the imagination of the creative, and seeps into the culture.

This is of vital importance.


--------------------
Fiddlesticks.


Edited by Rose (08/19/05 02:32 PM)

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Re: Why does The Shroomery need this forum? [Re: Rose]
    #4555674 -

Which is why both entheogen and hallucinogen aren't very good terms, because they're not universal to the trip. Sometimes you might hallucinate, or sometimes you might have a religious vision, but you can't label a drug on what you might get sometimes.

Psychedelic is really universal; altered awareness and distorted perception are nearly always there if you took a high enough dose to trip.


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So long as you are praised think only that you are not yet on your own path but on that of another.

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Re: Why does The Shroomery need this forum? [Re: Ravus]
    #4555692 -

Sorry, late edit again.

I only posted half my point, out of excitement.

I am used to slower forums... and longer posts.

I'll get the hang of this place soon, be patient.


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Fiddlesticks.


Edited by Rose (08/19/05 02:33 PM)

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Re: Why does The Shroomery need this forum? [Re: Ravus]
    #4556438 -

here's why. why we need S&P
understand now?


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Wanting to be someone else is a waste of the person you are -Kurt Cobain
       



     
Hotter than the left sink handle.

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Re: Why does The Shroomery need this forum? [Re: uriahchase]
    #4557665 -

What a waste of a post. I don't understand why you replied to Ravus.

So, is Spirituality a part of the mushroom experience or not?

Anyone...?


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Fiddlesticks.


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Re: Why does The Shroomery need this forum? [Re: Rose]
    #4557747 -

Cervantes said:
So, is Spirituality a part of the mushroom experience or not?



Is a blank piece of paper and a pencil ready to be guided a piece of art, or does it depend upon how the pencil is applied...?


--------------------
I'll be your midnight French Fry....  :naughty:

"The most important things in life that are often ignored, are the things that one cannot see...."

>^;;^<

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Re: Why does The Shroomery need this forum? [Re: PhanTomCat]
    #4557921 -

The shroomery does not 'need' this forum. However, many members of the forum enjoy this forum, myself included.

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Re: Why does The Shroomery need this forum? [Re: Rose]
    #4558315 -

Cervantes said:
What a waste of a post. I don't understand why you replied to Ravus.

So, is Spirituality a part of the mushroom experience or not?

Anyone...?



As I said earlier, spirituality is a part of the mushroom experience in the same sense that munchies are a part of the pot experience. That is to say that there is a strong correlation, but one does not necessarily lead to the other.


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Re: Why does The Shroomery need this forum? [Re: Silversoul]
    #4561716 -

That was a great comment. :smile:

However, Spirituality is not nearly as tangible as snack food. :wink:

It seems Spirituality is harder to define and/or put a finger on, than Philosophy, for most people...

So Spirituality can be overlooked in this forum.

However, Spirituality, is the very definition of the psychedelic experience.

Also, spirituality, more than any other reason, is why people have eaten these things for thousands of years.

This vague thing (Spirituality) is the very reason mushrooms  are talked about today.

Yet, getting someone to admit a connection between spirituality and mushrooms in this, the SPIRITUALITY forum, can sometimes feel like pulling teeth. :smirk:

I feel it is important, and fun, for this community to look at Spirituality with a scientific eye... because it seems mushrooms can  inspire (or reduce) spirituality in those who eat them. There is no doubt, mushrooms put spirituality in the front of a spiritual mind.


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Fiddlesticks.


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Re: Why does The Shroomery need this forum? [Re: Rose]
    #4561899 -

Quote:
There is no doubt, mushrooms put spirituality in the front of a spiritual mind.



Spot on! Good post. :smile:


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"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC

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Re: Why does The Shroomery need this forum? [Re: Icelander]
    #4564709 -

So what is the difference between Spirituality, and hallucinations?


--------------------
Fiddlesticks.


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Re: Why does The Shroomery need this forum? [Re: Rose]
    #4564799 -

I think that spirituality is a way to make sense of the hallucinations


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"Easy going and organic thoughts bent on self experimentation and knowledge and growth for the betterment of self and those around us"
-Playdo the philosophiser

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