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General Interest > Philosophy, Sociology & Psychology
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Re: Why does The Shroomery need this forum? [Re: Icelander]
    #4547931 -

So the Tao explains how everything comes into existence?

The Tao doesn't explain anything in my opinion, but if you disagree please do tell how the creation of the universe and everything is revealed by the Tao.


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So long as you are praised think only that you are not yet on your own path but on that of another.

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Re: Why does The Shroomery need this forum? [Re: Ravus]
    #4547971 -

Ravus said:
So the Tao explains how everything comes into existence?

The Tao doesn't explain anything in my opinion, but if you disagree please do tell how the creation of the universe and everything is revealed by the Tao.


The Tao does not explain how everything comes into existance. It says it is impossible to explain it. The Tao Te Ching explains how the Tao manifests in our experience, while saying it cannot be known. It gives advice for living in accord with its manifestations, so as to have a good experience here in the material life.

It is revealed to us by our obsevations of its effect. Everything, including Science is Tao. Tao predicts that Science will not EVER find any ultimate answers but will continue on as it always has. This is at least how I understand it.


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"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC

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Re: Why does The Shroomery need this forum? [Re: Icelander]
    #4548040 -

So in other words, the Tao is used to criticize the scientific search for the beginning but doesn't actually explain anything of its own? :smirk: I've read the Tao Te Ching and the Chuang Tzu multiple times, and while they were interesting and poetic, they do not answer any questions. Perhaps they're not intended to, but if that's the case then the Tao can't be used to criticize questions either.

There are no logical answers, even in the realm of spirituality. All of them have the same problem of causality, or simply end by saying the creator is "infinite", as if that solves all problems.


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So long as you are praised think only that you are not yet on your own path but on that of another.

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Re: Why does The Shroomery need this forum? [Re: Ravus]
    #4548062 -

I have never noticed that the Tao critizes the scientific search for knowledge. If it did I would abandon it. It predicts that, the search for knowledge will go on forever without exausting the Tao.


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"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC

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Re: Why does The Shroomery need this forum? [Re: Icelander]
    #4548099 -

The Tao obviously doesn't criticize, or the Tao Te Ching, but people have often criticized in the Tao's name.

And I don't use "criticize" in the negative sense; I mean they question the answers of science and try to replace it with the Tao. They say the universe can't be explained as it's part of the "Ultimate Tao" but what exactly does that mean? It does nothing for humanity, it simply adds meaningless words to an already difficult problem, in my opinion the most difficult problem science and human thinking as a whole has faced.

The Tao doesn't solve the problem of existence, so in my opinion it's unrelated to the problem. The Tao is only useful as a human conceptual web for everything when it's already here, but should be left out of the problem of the beginning of causality as it can't carry its own weight.

And I call it a concept because the Tao requires faith that this unifying force exists, which I have yet to see.


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So long as you are praised think only that you are not yet on your own path but on that of another.

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Re: Why does The Shroomery need this forum? [Re: Rose]
    #4548149 -

WHAAAAAAAAAAAAT? This is the thinking forum! Yeah there's a science forum, and if we were collectively more prepared for lots of science chatting, we'd probably have more enriched conversation that way. But we're not all prepared to talk about science. People here come from all different backgrounds, and have all different interests. We only have two things in common for sure: interest in a website about psilocybes, and the fact that we're people. People think, and wonder, and desire to know the truth. With the influence of drugs occasionally, people have all sorts of different ideas and things, and we chat about them. And that's the nature of philosophy. I for one do not see this place as abusive. I think that most people are too sensitive on the internet. If Swami and I got into a debate, for instance, we might say things like "that argument is ignorant" or "you're reasoning is nonsense" or whatever, but that wouldn't phase either one of us. Criticism is a great thing. We can steer other peoples' ideas around.


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Namaste

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Re: Why does The Shroomery need this forum? [Re: RedNucleus]
    #4548196 -

right on nuke. i am continually amused by people in this forum. it's a wonderful window onto the human experience. I love that i get to meet people with completely different worldviews to my own. it expands my understanding. I would think that many here share that sentiment. the shroomery doesn't need S&P, S&P needs the shroomery. it's the common ground that we all share. I love you guys! virtual hug! :heart:


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http://flashpedia.net/linesuperfollow.swf

http://www.alltooflat.com/pranks/cube/

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Re: Why does The Shroomery need this forum? [Re: psychomime]
    #4548211 -

er.. ah... got a bit carried away there. rock on S&P. :rockon:


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http://flashpedia.net/linesuperfollow.swf

http://www.alltooflat.com/pranks/cube/

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Re: Why does The Shroomery need this forum? [Re: Ravus]
    #4548218 -

First off, I don't care what these people do. They're ignorant IMO.

The Tao says existence isn't a "problem" to be fixed. It just is. There is nothing to fix IMO. There is something to experience though. Humanity needs nothing. It already has everything for this amazing journey called life. If we want to use Science to explore life then great. That's life. If some don't great. That's life. Every possibility is contained in Tao.

For me it is self evident that this unifying force exists. We live and die and fertilize the continuation of life in a continuous cycle.  :yinyang: Now this force moves me over to Veritas's house for dinner. :heart:


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC

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Re: Why does The Shroomery need this forum? [Re: Icelander]
    #4548779 -

The Tao does not explain how everything comes into existance. It says it is impossible to explain it.

Sounds reminiscent of M-Theory, which cannot be tested and so isn't really a theory... it's more like a philosophy... like a Tao? Hmm... :mushroom2:


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Republican Values:

1) You can't get married to your spouse who is the same sex as you.
2) You can't have an abortion no matter how much you don't want a child.
3) You can't have a certain plant in your possession or you'll get locked up with a rapist and a murderer.

4) We need a smaller, less-intrusive government.

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Re: Why does The Shroomery need this forum? [Re: Diploid]
    #4548892 -

Tao Te Ching does not try to explain where it all comes from...just how it works. I have found it to be a reliable guide.


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"A warrior is a hunter. He calculates everything. That's control. Once his calculations are over, he acts. He lets go. That's abandon. A warrior is not a leaf at the mercy of the wind. No one can push him; no one can make him do things against himself or against his better judgment. A warrior is tuned to survive, and he survives in the best of all possible fashions." ― Carlos Castaneda

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Re: Why does The Shroomery need this forum? [Re: Diploid]
    #4548903 -

I'd say it's more like speculation of where physics is headed.

http://arxiv.org/PS_cache/hep-th/pdf/0101/0101126.pdf is an awesome article on this new "Matrix Theory".


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So long as you are praised think only that you are not yet on your own path but on that of another.

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Re: Why does The Shroomery need this forum? [Re: Ravus]
    #4549127 -

Yep, I'm familiar with most of Taylor's published work through his collaboration with Witten on SuSy. SuSy will be tested before the end of the decade at CERN, but M is another matter.

My point about the parallel of Tao to M is that neither can ever be tested (so far as we can tell) and so both are philosophies.

The cutting edge in science, not science, but philosophy? I find that interesting.  :mushroom2:


--------------------
Republican Values:

1) You can't get married to your spouse who is the same sex as you.
2) You can't have an abortion no matter how much you don't want a child.
3) You can't have a certain plant in your possession or you'll get locked up with a rapist and a murderer.

4) We need a smaller, less-intrusive government.

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Re: Why does The Shroomery need this forum? [Re: Diploid]
    #4549152 -

Just because a field of physics can't be directly tested yet it doesn't mean it's philosophy.

M-Theory is more than philosophy because it has actual science behind it. It has complex mathematics to explain the concepts within it, and it is strictly bound by the puzzle which is around the blank piece it's trying to fit in. The Tao has none of these aspects.


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So long as you are praised think only that you are not yet on your own path but on that of another.

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Re: Why does The Shroomery need this forum? [Re: Rose]
    #4549177 -

I'd say there's as strong a correlation between mushrooms and spirituality as there is between, say, cannabis and Doritos.


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Re: Why does The Shroomery need this forum? [Re: Ravus]
    #4549359 -

Just because a field of physics can't be directly tested yet

From all appearances, it can never be tested because testing it would require peering into structures of the fundamental space-time geometry that are smaller than the Planck Length.

Such small object do not make sense because the equations used in M-Theory yield results like imaginary time intervals or imaginary lengths - the square root of negative one meter, for example.

This isn't a technological limitation; it is a fundamental limitation of the universe that all indications are can never be exceeded.

In other words, the M-Theory itself precludes itself being tested for (sounds like Tao, eh?) and that makes it philosophy.

This may change with future revelations, but the limitation is intrinsic to M-Theory and so any future discovery that such small structures can be tested for after all, will essentially invalidate M-Theory.


--------------------
Republican Values:

1) You can't get married to your spouse who is the same sex as you.
2) You can't have an abortion no matter how much you don't want a child.
3) You can't have a certain plant in your possession or you'll get locked up with a rapist and a murderer.

4) We need a smaller, less-intrusive government.

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Re: Why does The Shroomery need this forum? [Re: Rose]
    #4549763 -

Cervantes said:
What do S&P and mushrooms have to do with each other?

Why can't we just drop this forum from the list?

Is it really worth the drama?


1) psychedelics allow a person to view reality in a different way which is really the essence of speaking about philosophy and spirituality. to take a trip and to say to yourself "what is all of this?" "why is it here?" This forum is like a trip all on its own because it allows all types of subjective views to be shared, or broken down, or to be expanded upon, just like the psychedelic journey can do.

2) we can drop S&P from the list, but then you'd get these types of conversations anyway in another forum, or even on another website. this aspect of the shroomery is just one part of the entire mold of psychedelics, by stopping it you'd be ignoring one of the many aspects of mushrooms and psychedelics.

3) drama is contained within the human mind. S&P the forum isn't responsible for the drama, the people who post here are the ones responsible. And if you want to ask about worth, one's opinion of worth is definately different then the next.


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Annnnnnd I had a light saber and my friend was there and I said "you look like an indian" and he said "you look like satan" and he found a stick and a rock and he named the rock ooga booga and he named the stick Stick and we both thought that was pretty funny. We got eaten alive by mosquitos but didn't notice til the next day. I stepped on some glass while wading in the swamp and cut my foot open, didn't bother me til the next day either....yeah it was a good time, ended the night by buying some liquor for minors and drinking nips and going to he diner and eating chicken fingers, and then I went home and went to bed.

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Re: Why does The Shroomery need this forum? [Re: iambobby]
    #4549878 -

iambobby said:
Mushrooms can access any part of the human experience. Its all part of it.



So they have agency? 

Quote:
Talking about Spirituality and Philosophy is no more connected to the human/mushroom experience then talking about Ants and Grass. Its all related and its all essential.

  Very true.  Your thoughts are like elephants fucking mice up the butt.

Quote:
The reason why S&P popped up instead of A&G is possibly because our primitive ancestors who ingested shrooms had not yet fully explored the realms of spirituality, gods and ways of interacting with each other and the world. Ants and Grass was known to them and there was not the desire to put so much emphasis on it. It seems that shrooms cropped up at about the same time that man began to question his existance and search for a greater meaning. It is therefor strongly embedded within our cellular and akashic memory a connection between philosophical thought and mushroom ingestion.

  This is retarded thinking on so many levels I can't even begin.  Truth from human experience taken down to a cellular level from a fungus?  And this relationship was discovered around and appreciated in lieu of ants and grass?  WHAT THE FUCK?

Quote:
I thought I would only be able to be philosophical on mushrooms until I asked myself if to explore new frontiers. I realised I could easily switch between deep meditation and sexual drive. Quite different ends of the common 7 chakras and yet equally supported in both.


Or retarded and normal intelligence.  Sober and tripping.  No chakras involved, just a clear, rational argument that escapes you.

Quote:
I feel there is a strong emphasis on S&P in this time it could be because the majority of man fears for his survival. He desperately seeks the truth. He feels uncertain and he is willing to put his heart on the line and express his opinions in order to reach out and connect with likeminded folk in order to hopefully make the world a better place.


You missed your time.  It was being retarded, hopped-up, and face-down in the mud at Woodstock 36 years ago.

Quote:
Maybe as more and more people begin to tap into the 'its cool' frequency where I reside most of the time, threads like Ants and Grass will pop up and the meaning and value we derive from exploring these seemingly meaningless worlds will grow exponentially into infinity.


It's also called narcissism and megalomania.  Get off the drugs and fucking do something with your brain.  Tweedlez! :heartpump:


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OneMoreRobot3021 said:
the pub mods are a cancer on our society as a whole.
pantsboy said:
Do kittens contain mescaline?  Because they should.

My GF & ME :heart:

Edited by Bobo (08/18/05 01:12 AM)

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Re: Why does The Shroomery need this forum? [Re: Bobo]
    #4549918 -

OUchies, and it takes one to know one.


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Yesterday, the world was flat. Today, the world is a round ball. Tomorrow? The world will not be defined so easily with words...

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Re: Why does The Shroomery need this forum? [Re: iambobby]
    #4549926 -

What are you, a kid? Bobo initiates deep philosophical discussion and you say it takes one to know one?


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So long as you are praised think only that you are not yet on your own path but on that of another.

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General Interest > Philosophy, Sociology & Psychology
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