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InvisibleFungusMan
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Horse versus Cow Poo
    #4523010 - 08/11/05 06:37 PM (12 years, 3 months ago)

I live in Kentucky so there is :poop: readily available of both kinds. My parents are old hippies that own a beef farm. When I told them I was about to start growing shrooms, my mom said "Well, we got plenty of cow :poop: for ya". So I was wondering, Is cow :poop: okay? All I hear anyone mention is horse :poop:. Plus, In a wierd sort of :rasta: hippie :rasta: way, I think they would be proud that they're cow :poop: helped me trip.LOL.


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OfflinekronnyQ
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Re: Horse versus Cow Poo [Re: FungusMan]
    #4523021 - 08/11/05 06:42 PM (12 years, 3 months ago)

Cow shit sux ass man, just get horse.


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Invisibleagar
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Re: Horse versus Cow Poo [Re: FungusMan]
    #4523060 - 08/11/05 06:55 PM (12 years, 3 months ago)

Cow manure is well digested, as cows have like 4 stomachs.

Horse manure is very high in fiber, thus much better.


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InvisibleRoadkillM
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Re: Horse versus Cow Poo [Re: FungusMan]
    #4523065 - 08/11/05 06:56 PM (12 years, 3 months ago)

aged horse poo is far better than cow manure.

you don't want fresh horse poo...you want the dried aged looking nugs.

tc


--------------------
Laterz, Road

Who the hell you callin crazy?
You wouldn't know what crazy was if Charles Manson was eating froot loops on your front porch!


Brainiac said:
PM the names with on there names, that means they have mushrooms for sale.



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InvisibleFungusMan
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Re: Horse versus Cow Poo [Re: agar]
    #4523078 - 08/11/05 06:59 PM (12 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

agar said:
Cow manure is well digested, as cows have like 4 stomachs.

Horse manure is very high in fiber, thus much better.




thanx man. And dont you guys love it when people give theyre reasons instead of just "no that wont work", or "just get horse". Thanx for the info bro. I live about a 5 minute walk from a stable so ill make sure to get some.


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InvisibleFungusMan
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Re: Horse versus Cow Poo [Re: FungusMan] * 1
    #4523091 - 08/11/05 07:03 PM (12 years, 3 months ago)

But I will say this KronnyO, I could stare at your avatar for...(watches cute asian boobies bounce). Oh...what was we talking about again? :boobs:


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OfflineMagicalMystery
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Re: Horse versus Cow Poo [Re: FungusMan]
    #4523201 - 08/11/05 07:31 PM (12 years, 3 months ago)

I've had great experiences with cow poop and straw. I get it from a dairy farm and I compost it myself. I mix it about 50/50 with straw, pasteurize and case. The comments about horse manure having more fiber are, in my opinion, a non sequitor. If you want more fiber, mix it with straw. I want digested grains and microorganisms. I tried horse manure one time (with no straw) and I didn't think that the fruits were as potent as I was used to with cow manure. I'm sure that people will disagree with me on this one, but i'm not a cow manure salesman or anything. In fairness, I was using B+ on the horse manure rather than my standard Cambodian. I ask all horse manure lovers to tell me why they think that Asian strains of cubensis mushrooms would be more inclined and predisposed to digest horse manure rather than bovine manure. Not many horses in Asia.

If agar, scatman, etc say that horse manure works, then I'm sure that it does. One problem with this hobby is the true isolation of variables. For example, the learning curve that comes with time and experience. I think that someone could try a certain manure one time, early in their bulk cultivation 'history', and have less-than-ideal results with it. Taking what they've learned and re-read, they could then attempt to use the other animals manure and have much better results. Is this due to one manure being superior, or is it due to the experience of the cultivator increasing? Hard to say. I'm going to a horse farm tomorrow and getting a 10 gal rubbermade filled with dried up horse nugs. It's rained here lightly for 2 days, then its been hot for 2-3 days, so I'm sure i'll find some great specimens. Then I'll do a few trays of each adn see what the results are.


--------------------

"Men trained in arms from their infancy, and animated by the love of liberty, will afford neither a cheap or easy conquest."
From the Declaration of the Continental Congress

"We can have peace and security only as long as we band together to preserve that most priceless possession, our inheritance of European blood."
Charles A. Lindbergh,"Aviation, Geography, and Race", Reader's Digest, Nov. 1939

"We must secure the existance of our people and a future for White children."
David Lane


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Re: Horse versus Cow Poo [Re: MagicalMystery]
    #4523426 - 08/11/05 08:29 PM (12 years, 3 months ago)

>The comments about horse manure having more fiber are, in my opinion, a non sequitor. If you want more fiber, mix it with straw.

Why bother? Nature did it for me when she created the horse, it come pre mixed, pre dried, and prepressed into nice dry nugs that can be later just had water added and BAM, nice SHREEDED straw, so you dont have to shred straw, and you dont have big peices.

>I think that someone could try a certain manure one time, early in their bulk cultivation 'history', and have less-than-ideal results with it.

Sounds like what you did with horse shit.

Whatever man, you can think all sorts of crap you want, and keep on thinking we dont get it..I fully understand the FACT that horse manure COMES ready to use. Cow manure requires shreeding and mixing of straw, along with getting straw and storing straw and all that other crap, WHY? And god damn, why would I want MORE potent shrooms? I already get complaints that they wig people out on to low of doses. Not that I think cow poo shrooms are any more potent at all...


--------------------
"life is like a drop of rain getting closer and closer to falling into a lake, and then when you hit the lake there is no more rain drop, only the lake."

Growing with bags, start to finish (including my new grain and substrate prep)
Anyone looking to start bulk tubs/mono tubs/shotgun hybrids? Good tubs to use..
How I do grain (old still good tips)
Turn your closet into a fruiting chamber
Casing layer colonization and overlay


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InvisibleRoadkillM
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Re: Horse versus Cow Poo [Re: MagicalMystery]
    #4523570 - 08/11/05 09:05 PM (12 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

I ask all horse manure lovers to tell me why they think that Asian strains of cubensis mushrooms would be more inclined and predisposed to digest horse manure rather than bovine manure. Not many horses in Asia.





ever seen fruits in the wild?
they are few and far between.

we are growing in an artifical enviroment.

I can grow larger yeilds off horse poo than mother nature can off cow manure, buffalo and elephant dung....and more than you can for that matter.
:smirk:

Quote:

Is this due to one manure being superior, or is it due to the experience of the cultivator increasing?




Well when I see the top cultivators getting the best results from horse poo that pretty much says it all.

Your not using just cow manure anyway...your using cow manure and straw.
Or compost from reading your post.

The problem with cow manure is...its too broken down from going through the 4 stomachs of the cow...so you have to add straw to it.

You don't have to add straw to the horse poo...its already at the right consistancy.

There are a few things better than aged horse poo though...
Quality made compost...and most of that is made from aged horse poo.
ZooDoo...which is compost that is made from Elephant dung mostly.

Quote:

I'm going to a horse farm tomorrow and getting a 10 gal rubbermade filled with dried up horse nugs. It's rained here lightly for 2 days, then its been hot for 2-3 days, so I'm sure i'll find some great specimens. Then I'll do a few trays of each adn see what the results are.




You do that!~

be sure and post pictures of your results in a grow log!~


--------------------
Laterz, Road

Who the hell you callin crazy?
You wouldn't know what crazy was if Charles Manson was eating froot loops on your front porch!


Brainiac said:
PM the names with on there names, that means they have mushrooms for sale.



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OfflineMagicalMystery
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Re: Horse versus Cow Poo [Re: Roadkill]
    #4540309 - 08/16/05 12:13 AM (12 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

Roadkill said:
ever seen fruits in the wild?
they are few and far between.




I snipped out my question about Asian strains being well-suited to growing on equine manure over bovine manure.  I'll hope you actually answer it.  I always get excellent flushes of large mushrooms with cow manure and straw.  Better than the little fairy rings that most grow-logs here seem to consist of, at least.  scatman has AWESOME results and it's because hes an excellent cultivator.  If he wants to, or anyone who's a "respected" member here, I'll send them 10lbs of dehydrated cow manure [the exact blend that I use] <for free, of course> and see what he thinks.  I just don't think that it's fair to say "this guy just registered, so clearly my skills are superior to his".  I don't believe in taking pictures of grow setups, so I'd never do it.  If scatman, you, diver, workman, agar (etc) want some free cow manure compost, let me know and i'll send it out.
Quote:


I can grow larger yeilds off horse poo than mother nature can off cow manure, buffalo and elephant dung....and more than you can for that matter.
:smirk:




What would ever make you say htat? Thats just pure idiocy, no offense, to claim, esp while smirking, that your results are superior.  What do you base it on? The "Everyone says so" line of 'logic'? Pfft, sad.
Quote:


Well when I see the top cultivators getting the best results from horse poo that pretty much says it all.




So where are their side by side comparisons?
Quote:


Your not using just cow manure anyway...your using cow manure and straw.
Or compost from reading your post.

The problem with cow manure is...its too broken down from going through the 4 stomachs of the cow...so you have to add straw to it.




I've scholar.google.com'ed tons of phrases, searching for the exact combination of what shrooms need to thrive, and I've found no scholarly publications that show that they need more or less digested food.  Can you show me where  you got this information?

Below you claim that elephant dung is good.  Elephants crap out about 60% of what they take in.  If this undigested food is so good for the mushrooms, why not just use elephant food?  If their is something else in the mix, something other than the non-digested food, that lends itself to potency, wouldn't you want it to be MAINLY this material?
Quote:




be sure and post pictures of your results in a grow log!~




I don't take pics, really.  Since some members do, I'll ship 10-15 lbs of the compost that I use to any qualified member (with a cam) who replies to this post saying that they want it.  If they'll mix it with straw, we can see how it holds up to horsey poo.


--------------------

"Men trained in arms from their infancy, and animated by the love of liberty, will afford neither a cheap or easy conquest."
From the Declaration of the Continental Congress

"We can have peace and security only as long as we band together to preserve that most priceless possession, our inheritance of European blood."
Charles A. Lindbergh,"Aviation, Geography, and Race", Reader's Digest, Nov. 1939

"We must secure the existance of our people and a future for White children."
David Lane


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OfflineMagicalMystery
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Re: Horse versus Cow Poo [Re: scatmanrav]
    #4540311 - 08/16/05 12:15 AM (12 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

scatmanrav said:
>The comments about horse manure having more fiber are, in my opinion, a non sequitor. If you want more fiber, mix it with straw.

Why bother? Nature did it for me when she created the horse, it come pre mixed, pre dried, and prepressed into nice dry nugs that can be later just had water added and BAM, nice SHREEDED straw, so you dont have to shred straw, and you dont have big peices.

>I think that someone could try a certain manure one time, early in their bulk cultivation 'history', and have less-than-ideal results with it.

Sounds like what you did with horse shit.

Whatever man, you can think all sorts of crap you want, and keep on thinking we dont get it..I fully understand the FACT that horse manure COMES ready to use. Cow manure requires shreeding and mixing of straw, along with getting straw and storing straw and all that other crap, WHY? And god damn, why would I want MORE potent shrooms? I already get complaints that they wig people out on to low of doses. Not that I think cow poo shrooms are any more potent at all...






Can I sum your comments up "I've never tried it, and what I tried works great, so cow poop mustb e horrible!." Something like that? Want some cow compost that I use? PM me your address, totally free, even shipping, if you promise to use it as a variant in a grow log with pictures.


--------------------

"Men trained in arms from their infancy, and animated by the love of liberty, will afford neither a cheap or easy conquest."
From the Declaration of the Continental Congress

"We can have peace and security only as long as we band together to preserve that most priceless possession, our inheritance of European blood."
Charles A. Lindbergh,"Aviation, Geography, and Race", Reader's Digest, Nov. 1939

"We must secure the existance of our people and a future for White children."
David Lane


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OfflineMagicalMystery
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Re: Horse versus Cow Poo [Re: MagicalMystery]
    #4540318 - 08/16/05 12:18 AM (12 years, 3 months ago)

http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Cat/0/Number/1041082/an/0/page/1

Quote:



Psilocybe Cubensis are habitat specific. Meaning, they cannot grow in the wild, unless their habitat provides a suitable environment, along with sufficient natural nutrients. Over the millennia, they have evolved inherent genetic traits best suited for their continuous survival in specific geographic area's they successfully inhabit.

All fungi feed by absorption of nutrients. Because of the huge range of potential nutrient sources, fungi evolved enzymes suitable for the specific environments in which they are generally found. The range of enzymes, though wide in may species, is not sufficient for survival in all environments.

Psilocybe Cubensis excrete a complex array of genetically predetermined enzymes for digestion. The enzymes are present in multiple forms, based on a single inherent genetic sequence, and include a range of isoenzymes, which arise from different inherent genetic sequences.

Simply stated, Psilocybe Cubensis excrete enzymes into the organic material in which their underground mycelia (root) system naturally grow. Those enzymes degrade nutrients there, into simple soluble forms of sugars and amino acids, which are then easily absorbed into the mycelia network. Resulting in them acquiring all essential elements with which to grow fruit bodies, and spores (seed) by which they propagate their species.

It is common knowledge that most strains of Psilocybe Cubensis flourish in select warm moist habitats worldwide, associated where horses, cattle and water buffalo naturally spread bovine type manure. Consequently, Psilocybe Cubensis developed inherent genetic traits, enabling then to excrete specific enzymes best suited to enable them to specifically dissolve, digest and take up nutrients available from bovine type manure, and/or soil enriched with it.

Therefore, Psilocybe Cubensis own inherent genetic traits attest that bovine type manure alone, or soils highly enriched with it, is best suited to their nutrient needs, in the wild.

Taking that fact, one step further. Aged leached dry bovine type manure, when aerobically composted together with a small percent of other select fruits, vegetables, grains and straw provides an even more enriched super nutrient source for cultivation of Psilocybe Cubensis . Moreover, a compost of this type provides an ideal moist subsurface habitat (substrate) that, Psilocybe Cubensis mycelia will colonize faster than any other.

SixTango





I think that SixTee is a reliable enough guy that people might take his word on it.

If someone could tell me why they think that shrooms from Asia would be better suited to horse/straw rather than cow manure, i'd love to hear it.


--------------------

"Men trained in arms from their infancy, and animated by the love of liberty, will afford neither a cheap or easy conquest."
From the Declaration of the Continental Congress

"We can have peace and security only as long as we band together to preserve that most priceless possession, our inheritance of European blood."
Charles A. Lindbergh,"Aviation, Geography, and Race", Reader's Digest, Nov. 1939

"We must secure the existance of our people and a future for White children."
David Lane


Edited by MagicalMystery (08/16/05 12:36 AM)


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Invisibleagar
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Re: Horse versus Cow Poo [Re: MagicalMystery]
    #4540651 - 08/16/05 02:06 AM (12 years, 3 months ago)

agar = 6T....back then.
In using the term "bovine" manure - I meant for making compost, Second to compost (imho) would be weathered h/poo.


--------------------


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OfflineMagicalMystery
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Re: Horse versus Cow Poo [Re: agar]
    #4540950 - 08/16/05 03:45 AM (12 years, 3 months ago)

Ah, didn't know ya were one and the same. What about using cow manure in compost do you think makes it better than horse manure? Also, I've only used cow manure compost, never straight manure, so I can't say what pure cow manure would be like.

The offer stands to anyone else (with a cam who is experienced) for a free bag of cow manure compost/straw, chopped and ready for pasteurization.


--------------------

"Men trained in arms from their infancy, and animated by the love of liberty, will afford neither a cheap or easy conquest."
From the Declaration of the Continental Congress

"We can have peace and security only as long as we band together to preserve that most priceless possession, our inheritance of European blood."
Charles A. Lindbergh,"Aviation, Geography, and Race", Reader's Digest, Nov. 1939

"We must secure the existance of our people and a future for White children."
David Lane


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Re: Horse versus Cow Poo [Re: MagicalMystery]
    #4541045 - 08/16/05 04:09 AM (12 years, 3 months ago)

I'm tempted..but still, then we are not talking about horse poo..horse poo comes as is, just add water, no composting, no straw adding, chopping, nothing. Add water and pasteurize (or dont). I would bet, that properly spiffed up good cow manure could work ok..I dont know how it would stand against horse manure, but -shrug-..


--------------------
"life is like a drop of rain getting closer and closer to falling into a lake, and then when you hit the lake there is no more rain drop, only the lake."

Growing with bags, start to finish (including my new grain and substrate prep)
Anyone looking to start bulk tubs/mono tubs/shotgun hybrids? Good tubs to use..
How I do grain (old still good tips)
Turn your closet into a fruiting chamber
Casing layer colonization and overlay


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Offlinebarlo
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Re: Horse versus Cow Poo [Re: scatmanrav]
    #4541452 - 08/16/05 08:36 AM (12 years, 3 months ago)

how bout worm castings are they better than both? lets say all of the substrates are composed of 50/50 poo/straw?


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Re: Horse versus Cow Poo [Re: barlo]
    #4541457 - 08/16/05 08:43 AM (12 years, 3 months ago)

Worn castings are a fairly good additive, to a high fiber substrate. But, not as a major component, or even high precentage. Simply because, they are like DIRT, lack fiber & by themselves - turn to MUD. Mycy doesn'y like MUD


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Re: Horse versus Cow Poo [Re: scatmanrav]
    #4541461 - 08/16/05 08:54 AM (12 years, 3 months ago)

IMHO, cow manure is a great component to compost, with straw - to attain a decent substrate. By itself, it lacks fiber. If you want, you can wash the soupy shit out of cow manure, and recover it's fiber content. Which works well, as substrate. But - washing the goupy shit out - is a real pita.

Most of you have never seen a wringer type washing machine. You can load 50 lbs of cow manure in one, add water, run the agitator for a half hour, then throw the drain switch on, hole the drain hose over a big sized fine mesh screen,to trap the fiber, while fluids exit.

That cow poo fiber will compare to horse manure. But, you don't have to do that with horse manure, as its high fiber as-is. So, h/poo is the way to go.


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OfflineMagicalMystery
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Re: Horse versus Cow Poo [Re: FungusMan]
    #4542597 - 08/16/05 03:42 PM (12 years, 3 months ago)

Here is my final answer to this. If you live on a farm, or have access to one, with a large amount of cows, and if you have the space to compost it, that would be the best solution. Comparibly, if you lived on a ranch and had 1500 heads of horses, horse would be the way to go. If you get the cow manure, dry it in the sun, sift it, mix it with straw, wet it and compost it, you will have some top notch substrate. I don't think that one species of manure is "better" than the other, in terms of final mushroom production or potency. Horse manure might be a bit easier to use, but again, it just depends on what you have available. I like making compost and knowing what is in it, so thats what works for me.


--------------------

"Men trained in arms from their infancy, and animated by the love of liberty, will afford neither a cheap or easy conquest."
From the Declaration of the Continental Congress

"We can have peace and security only as long as we band together to preserve that most priceless possession, our inheritance of European blood."
Charles A. Lindbergh,"Aviation, Geography, and Race", Reader's Digest, Nov. 1939

"We must secure the existance of our people and a future for White children."
David Lane


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Re: Horse versus Cow Poo [Re: MagicalMystery]
    #4542676 - 08/16/05 04:08 PM (12 years, 3 months ago)

>If you live on a farm, or have access to one, with a large amount of cows, and if you have the space to compost it, that would be the best solution.

Why? Can you show any added benefit of using cow poo composted over horse poo? Sure it could work just as well, if you mix it up right..but BETTER? especially to the point of all the extra time you wasted making the compost? I just do not see how its "the best solution", in any way shape or form...work more to get the same result..you yourself said you dont think its any better or worse.

I mean, sure if all you have is a field of cows available, and no horses..maybe you just left out the "and no horse farms around" part? Of course if horse poo isnt available to you, cow is best..its the ONLY option. If only one is available, you can work with that..but if BOTH are available (as is likly in farm country), horse is easier and, as you say, no better or worse then composted cow shit/straw...just doesnt make sense to me and seems like your ighting to hard just to contradict people and keep your orignal stance that cow poo is superior..besides if thats all you have to work with.


--------------------
"life is like a drop of rain getting closer and closer to falling into a lake, and then when you hit the lake there is no more rain drop, only the lake."

Growing with bags, start to finish (including my new grain and substrate prep)
Anyone looking to start bulk tubs/mono tubs/shotgun hybrids? Good tubs to use..
How I do grain (old still good tips)
Turn your closet into a fruiting chamber
Casing layer colonization and overlay


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Mushrooms, Mycology and Psychedelics >> Mushroom Cultivation

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