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Offlinemk31762
Stranger

Registered: 10/18/01
Posts: 14
Last seen: 15 years, 5 months
Mushrooms and religious tradition
    #449103 - 11/06/01 05:33 PM (15 years, 9 months ago)

How does the use of mushrooms compliment or disagree with your own religious
/ spiritual tradition?

I consider myself to be of no fixed affiliation. However, I have been reading the
Upanishads a lot lately. The idea set forth in the Upanishads is one of
untiy: all things are one, seperateness is an illusion. The spiritual
longing of humanity is to dissolve the ego and return to the unity of the
great Self.

I haven't used a psychoactive substance for over 20 years. However, I
probably will again in the next month or so. In the past I have used a lot
of LSD and don't care to again. However, from what I have read of sacred
mushroom use it sounds like the very kind of ego disolution described above
is what the experience offers.

Any thoughts?


--------------------
...a leaf of grass is no less than the journeywork
of the stars... Walt Whitman


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InvisibleCosmicJokeM
happy mutant
 User Gallery

Registered: 04/06/00
Posts: 10,539
Loc: Portland, OR
Re: Mushrooms and religious tradition [Re: mk31762]
    #449227 - 11/06/01 07:12 PM (15 years, 9 months ago)

Having taken an interest in Hinduism, I would direct you to _Be Here Now_ by Ram Dass. The book costs $13.13, and is very appropriate book to accompany a psychedelic experience. Ram Dass, a.k.a. Richard Alpert, was a harvard psychologist who was partners with Tim Leary until their research on psychedelics was discontinued. He made a trip to the East searching for insight as to the meaning of psychedelics, and found his Guru, Neem Karoli Baba, in the Himilayas. From his Eastern teachings he was able to transform himself from an ego-centered vantage point to a soul vantage point.

Another book, available online through www.erowid.org, is _The Psychedelic Experience_ by Tim Leary, Ralph Metzner, and Richard Alpert. The book is a manual based on The Tibetan Book of the Dead. Read it several times before the trip, and have somebody read the poems to you during the trip.

A psychedelic experience should be taken with caution. As you noted, the spiritual longing of humanity is to DISSOLVE the ego (one's belief systems) and return to the unity of the great Self. In other words, you don't want to ATOM BOMB and SHATTER your belief system. There are different degrees of unity with the great Self, so you don't want to open the gates of the Mind too quickly or you will be flooded. So, try a dose between 1.75-3.5g of the mushrooms and allow yourself to ease your way out of ego-centered being, let it fade away with total continuity. A "heroic dose", coined by Terence McKenna, which facilitates a high degree of Truth, would probably be very discontinuous and cause a lot of anxiety and ego hallucinations. If you choose to work with the drug for a time, let it do its work on you without rush- don't put expectations on one trip doing it all.
The drugs compliment my Faith. Unfortunately, my ego is sometimes centered on the psychedelics as the sole key to It.
Peace/CJ


--------------------
Everything is better than it was the last time.  I'm good.

If we could look into each others hearts, and understand the unique challenges each of us faces, I think we would treat each other much more gently, with more love, patience, tolerance, and care.

It takes a lot of courage to go out there and radiate your essence.

I know you scared, you should ask us if we scared too.  If you was there, and we just knew you cared too.


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Offlinemk31762
Stranger

Registered: 10/18/01
Posts: 14
Last seen: 15 years, 5 months
Re: Mushrooms and religious tradition [Re: CosmicJoke]
    #449344 - 11/06/01 08:39 PM (15 years, 9 months ago)

Thanks, C. I have heard of both books. They've been on my list for a while. I have read Terence McKenna. In fact Food of the Gods kind of made up my mind to seek this kind of experience again.

Also, thank you for the solid advice on tripping. I'll take it to heart.


--------------------
...a leaf of grass is no less than the journeywork
of the stars... Walt Whitman


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InvisibleIshmael
enthusiast

Registered: 10/29/99
Posts: 224
Re: Mushrooms and religious tradition [Re: mk31762]
    #449487 - 11/06/01 10:33 PM (15 years, 9 months ago)

While I do not disagree with the assertion that Mushrooms can be utilized in order to make spiritual breakthroughs, especially in the minds of men and women who have grown up in our particular culture, I do add a note of caution. While mushrooms can and do produce states of connection to the divine source, god, all, the Universe...through the dissolution of ego, they cannot be considered the entire source of the experience. Mushrooms will portentiate an experience, but i would suggest you research and try 'sober' methods of reaching back to The Source before you attempt mushrooms. Having rituals of these sorts will not only enhance your experience but they will help calm your discomfort and thusly produce a more mellow trip. This of course is true only if you are comfortable with the ritual itself before you attempt to 'enhance' it with mushrooms. Be wary of making mushrooms your only method of connecting with the divine. If you wish a religious experience, you should have multiple methods which you can combine and weave together - mushrooms should only be one thread, not the entire rope.

Ish


Edited by Ishmael (11/06/01 10:34 PM)


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Offlinegnrm23
Carpal Tunnel
Registered: 08/30/99
Posts: 6,481
Loc: n. e. OH, USSA
Last seen: 20 days, 19 hours
Re: Mushrooms and religious tradition [Re: mk31762]
    #449567 - 11/06/01 11:23 PM (15 years, 9 months ago)

for an interesting visit to a fictional location where the body of society as a whole does everythig feasible for the members to awaken (to suchness, as it were) and an ousider who purposefully "shipwrecked" himself to obtain entry... do read aldous huxley's last novel _island_
and for a golden psychedelic afternoon with alan watts, see his _the joyous cosmology_
~~~
may you bring the glimpse of the illuminated landsape into the living of your life...


--------------------
old enough to know better
not old enough to care


Edited by gnrm23 (11/07/01 07:56 AM)


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OfflineTraveller
enthusiast
Registered: 04/13/01
Posts: 309
Last seen: 9 years, 10 months
Re: Mushrooms and religious tradition [Re: mk31762]
    #449826 - 11/07/01 03:26 AM (15 years, 9 months ago)

good luck! I think you should enjoy yourself.

have you been practicing any yoga postures or movements? breathing techniques or anything? if so I recommend trying them while under the influence, they are very useful in understanding the changes in body and mind that mushrooms bring on.


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OfflineTraveller
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Registered: 04/13/01
Posts: 309
Last seen: 9 years, 10 months
Re: Mushrooms and religious tradition [Re: Ishmael]
    #449832 - 11/07/01 03:39 AM (15 years, 9 months ago)

I'm with you all the way here Ishmael! by practicing various kinds of "meditation" we can constantly (although very slowly) develope our concentration and sensitivity, mental and physical, and thus gradually gain greater levels of understanding of ourselves. habitual thought patterns, understanding of how mental attitudes affect physical processes and vice versa, sensitivity to the flows of energy, relaxation and tension within the body. constant training combined with occasional psycedelic journeys has given me plenty of "revelations" or moments when "aha!" something becomes clear to me, i understand a particular movement or position or some sort of fundamental or abstract concept and my training from then on is greatly improved.

before i started training seriously i loved to trip out, i've always found LSD or mushroom land to be an extraordinarily beautiful place, but i tended to have the same realisations time after time, every trip was like "here I am again" and i couldn't really get any further because i had not been progressing in between trips.


anyway this is getting off topic, i really think that after reading the upanishads you should have a great time, just GO SOMEWHERE BEAUTIFUL!!!! build yourself a fire, have your tent and sleeping bag ready, lots of trees, no drunk people, preferably a river or the sea nearby (experience the elements on shroooooms!!!) and RELAX.


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OfflineD_Tox
Boddhisattva

Registered: 10/31/01
Posts: 239
Loc: Lab 23
Last seen: 14 years, 6 months
Re: Mushrooms and religious tradition [Re: Traveller]
    #450463 - 11/07/01 05:52 PM (15 years, 9 months ago)

I'd like to second "Be Here Now" as an excellent resource..
I"m currently working my way through the Tibetan Book of the Dead, it is a difficult read in my opinion.


--------------------
-----------------------
D_Tox

to understand other people….to be aware
to understand animals….to be a decent person
to understand plants….. to be a refined individual
to understand the mushroom…to be enlightened


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Offlinemk31762
Stranger

Registered: 10/18/01
Posts: 14
Last seen: 15 years, 5 months
Re: Mushrooms and religious tradition [Re: Traveller]
    #451045 - 11/08/01 12:35 AM (15 years, 9 months ago)

That's funny, Traveller, a fire and a night in the wilderness is exactly what I had in mind.


--------------------
...a leaf of grass is no less than the journeywork
of the stars... Walt Whitman


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OfflineGrenade01
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Registered: 09/26/01
Posts: 337
Loc: United States of America
Last seen: 15 years, 3 months
Re: Mushrooms and religious tradition [Re: mk31762]
    #452416 - 11/09/01 01:52 AM (15 years, 9 months ago)

Although I am only 19, I have had many spiritual breakthroughs related to mushrooms. I say related to because just pondering the mindset, and the experience while sober, has led me to much self discovery. I am glad you may be returning (if maybe only briefly) to the world of psychadelics, and I hope you find what you are looking for.

I have often thought about trying LSD.. I actually once did try it, but it was so weak It just felt like a lot of caffiene and a little bit of crappy pot. I have now tried most drugs, and the only one Ive found truely useful so far is mushrooms.
I think ecstacy is ONLY useful once, and only once... and ..hrm I don't know about Salvia Divinorum. It definately is an adventure, and it shows you pretty much everything your curiousity can handle, but I have yet to have a "breakthrough" in any sense of the word on salvia. I hope to though, because the salvia experiences are so intense and so ...otherworldly that I believe it can happen, and just isn't happening to me.

Good luck with mushrooms.


--------------------


Baagok!


Edited by Grenade01 (11/09/01 01:53 AM)


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OfflineD_Tox
Boddhisattva

Registered: 10/31/01
Posts: 239
Loc: Lab 23
Last seen: 14 years, 6 months
Re: Mushrooms and religious tradition [Re: Grenade01]
    #456613 - 11/13/01 12:55 AM (15 years, 9 months ago)

Believe me, so-called 'breakthrough' salvia experiences are very possible.


--------------------
-----------------------
D_Tox

to understand other people….to be aware
to understand animals….to be a decent person
to understand plants….. to be a refined individual
to understand the mushroom…to be enlightened


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InvisibleStonerwitch
oilrig
Registered: 11/21/00
Posts: 147
Loc: England/Finland Etc.
Re: Mushrooms and religious tradition [Re: mk31762]
    #456822 - 11/13/01 10:56 AM (15 years, 9 months ago)

Question:

Consider a human that is totally, clinically isolated from any kind of stimulating environment right after birth. No mirrors, no images, no speech, nothing. Sounds cruel right? But what would this kind of person experience during a mushroom or LSD trip?
You see, while you're tripping, your experiences and things you see are always a sum of things you experience in "real life".
Like if I saw god or jesus last time I was tripping, how did I know it was god unless I knew what to look for? I had an assumption already in the back of my mind.

It would be interesting to have a "reference person", who's mind is totally objective, without anykind of reference surfaces or connections to the real world.

IMHO, religious images etc. while tripping are pure crap and artificial productions of our sub-conscious from our real lifes. The only "un-natural" landscape excists solely in my head, not in the collective ancient memory of the universe....
But as said, this is MHO....(perhaps I'm provocating a little too but I want to make people think)


--------------------
**************************************************************
Yume Bitsu - Yume Bitsu






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