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InvisibleYthanA
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Shroomery Arbitration and Mediation
    #4481537 - 08/01/05 05:41 PM (11 years, 9 months ago)

So since Anno's on a Mormon missionary trip, Vamp's mounted a widespread turtle extermination campaign and Seuss is on board the space shuttle Discovery, I've been handling a lot more support requests lately. One thing it's made me realize is how much conflict and turmoil actually exist within our humble community. I guess it shouldn't have come as a surprise, after all whenever you get 35,000 different people together there are bound to be some incompatibilities. However, actually dealing with these problems on a day-to-day basis really brought home the need for a better mediation and arbitration procedure on the Shroomery.

Right now when members have a conflict, there is no formal process for seeking resolution. Hopefully first they try and work things out between themselves, but not always. They may take matters into their own hands and start harassing each other, or try to dispense some kind of vigilante justice. Perhaps they start a public thread to rally support for their cause. They might go to a forum mod, IRC op or other staff member and voice their complaint, then depending on the person and the intricacy of the problem they may or may not get any follow up. Sometimes people 'fish' for sympathetic staff members, sending appeals to anyone with authority and hoping someone rules in their favor. Other times they may just throw up their hands in frustration and leave the site never to be heard from again.

I don't think the current system succeeds in providing fast, fair and consistent resolutions for member complaints, and for this reason I am turning to the community for feedback and suggestions on how it can be improved. We need a way to resolve disputes and handle grievances so that everyone has a fair say and a chance to tell their story. How should we achieve this?

We could let our members vote on a team of arbitrators who would investigate any complaints, try and negotiate a resolution, and have the authority to make binding decisions. Some of these problems can get pretty convoluted though, and this could be a very labor-intensive job if done correctly. Would anyone even be willing to volunteer for the task? It also puts a lot of authority into the hands of a relatively small number of individuals, although it's no worse than the current situation.

Alternately, we could pick random people from the community, jury-style, and give them the responsibility of making the decision. However, they probably won't be as well-versed in the site's specific policies and standards as a hand-picked group of arbitrators. They also might not take the position as seriously, or feel as accountable.

We could have both sides make their case in a public forum, then allow all registered members to try and mediate and vote on the outcome. An approach like this is more democratic although it's still susceptible to the tyranny of the majority. Still, it's hard to argue you've been treated unfairly if the entire community is given the opportunity the hear and decide on your issue.

Anyway these are just a few ideas I'm throwing out off the top of my head. I'm sure we can come up with something more elegant and effective. What do you guys think? How should we set this up? What's your idea? Please, give us your feedback now. If you ever have a problem with another member you'll be glad you did.

Peace,

-Y


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InvisibleBurke Dennings

Registered: 11/29/04
Posts: 78,326
Re: Shroomery Arbitration and Mediation [Re: Ythan]
    #4481602 - 08/01/05 06:03 PM (11 years, 9 months ago)

First of all, thank you for recognizing this problem. Arbitration and mediation seems to be an issue that the Shroomery could use a touch of improvement in, lest the forums will be forever crapped up with these anger/drama/argument threads. I like this idea best:

Quote:

Ythan said:

We could let our members vote on a team of arbitrators who would investigate any complaints, try and negotiate a resolution, and have the authority to make binding decisions. Some of these problems can get pretty convoluted though, and this could be a very labor-intensive job if done correctly. Would anyone even be willing to volunteer for the task? It also puts a lot of authority into the hands of a relatively small number of individuals, although it's no worse than the current situation.





I'd like to nominate people who don't seem to be involved in these dramatic situations, but have a lot of involvement and respect within the community aspect of the boards. Redstorm, Mattzdope, and ToiletDuk all come readily to mind. Maybe OneMoreRobot and CherryBom, if they aren't too busy with modding duties.

I think a specific group to deal with these issues is a great idea, though, however you choose to pursue it. Thanks again for doing everything possible to make this place great.


--------------------
Mr. Tato goes-a clap!
Mr. Tato, all the little things you hear...


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InvisibleMOTH
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Re: Shroomery Arbitration and Mediation [Re: Ythan]
    #4481607 - 08/01/05 06:05 PM (11 years, 9 months ago)

Anno's a MORMON??  :shocked:

I never knew! 

:grin:

I'm going to think about a proper response to this thread but couldn't resist a bit of humor.  :heart:


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InvisibleOneMoreRobot3021
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Re: Shroomery Arbitration and Mediation [Re: Burke Dennings]
    #4481626 - 08/01/05 06:11 PM (11 years, 9 months ago)

I think this idea right now is pretty much-needed and a good one in general. It could get quite sticky though.  Who's to say the Shroomery arbiters' decisions will be honored by the "losing" participant in the debate/argument?  Will we have any way of imposing rules and regulations between members that come as a result of the mediation process?

I would definitely lend both my support to this idea and my help as an arbiter, though I'd want to see the idea fully fleshed out before I definitely jumped on board.  And besides, I think 'trode just did a good job naming three people that I know I would trust with these decisions:

Redstorm
mattzdope
ToiletDuk

These three members span multiple forums and don't usually dip themselves into the drama, at least not in a way that puts them on a "side."  They all are capable of providing well thought-out discussion and opinions as well...really, good choice of folks electrode. Also it seems to me that this thread is being born largely out of the current OTD/Pub shitstorm, and those 3 members post in both.



--------------------
Acid doesn't give you truths; it builds machines that push the envelope of perception. Whatever revelations came to me then have dissolved like skywriting. All I really know is that those few years saddled me with a faith in the redemptive potential of the imagination which, however flat, stale and unprofitable the world seems to me now, I cannot for the life of me shake.

-Erik Davis


Edited by OneMoreRobot3021 (07/12/15 04:23 PM)


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InvisibleHELLA_TIGHT
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Re: Shroomery Arbitration and Mediation [Re: OneMoreRobot3021]
    #4482003 - 08/01/05 07:38 PM (11 years, 9 months ago)

I'm gonna agree, Redstorm, mattzdope, and ToiletDuk are all really cool people. They've got my vote.


--------------------




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InvisibleOneMoreRobot3021
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Re: Shroomery Arbitration and Mediation [Re: Ythan]
    #4482041 - 08/01/05 07:49 PM (11 years, 9 months ago)

Ythan, what if we compile a list of names based on community votes (make a website-wide announcement post asking for votes) and make sure and point out that this is not a popularity contest...that we want people to suggest folks that they think could take it upon themselves to mediate almost any situation without bias. Of course, the final review would be up to the admins, before the final list is compiled.

Then, when an issue came up that required arbitration, you could write a program that would randomly select 5 people from the arbiter list, one of whom would be randomly appointed as judge. The other 4 would be jurors. The random generation of the names could be redone if someone who was chosen for the jury/judgeship happens to be conflicted in the particular situation.

This way we get a group of people who are community-nominated. Then we get, from that group, a random selection for each arbitration.


--------------------
Acid doesn't give you truths; it builds machines that push the envelope of perception. Whatever revelations came to me then have dissolved like skywriting. All I really know is that those few years saddled me with a faith in the redemptive potential of the imagination which, however flat, stale and unprofitable the world seems to me now, I cannot for the life of me shake.

-Erik Davis


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Offlinecb9fl
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Registered: 06/12/03
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Re: Shroomery Arbitration and Mediation [Re: Ythan]
    #4482514 - 08/01/05 09:35 PM (11 years, 9 months ago)

Having the Arbitration and Mediation crew separate from the Mods/Admins adds a second level of accountability and fairness. It separates the original people that may have caused what a user perceives as a problem from the people resolving the situation.

If a set of people are chosen for Arbitration and Mediation they should be up for community review at set periods of time no matter what their actions. When the review comes along a simple community vote of stay or leave should be implemented for each person. If someone is voted out they should be replaced by someone new.


--------------------
It is better to be hated for what you are than to be loved for what you are not. -Andre Gide

"Generosity is nothing else than a craze to possess. All which I abandon, all which I give, I enjoy in a higher manner through the fact that I give it away. To give is to enjoy possessively the object which one gives."


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Invisibleeric_the_red
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Re: Shroomery Arbitration and Mediation [Re: Ythan]
    #4482954 - 08/01/05 11:23 PM (11 years, 9 months ago)

if certain people can't learn to be civil, they need to get the boot. as you noted, every time a large group gets together, conflicts will arise. most involved in the conflicts here tend to stay within certain boundaries. those that cross the line should not be allowed to stay.


however, if you wish to implement some sort of mediation system, i think it should work in the same manner that the shroomery support system works.

instead of the ticket going to you or another admin, the ticket goes to a person that has volunteered (and been elected?) to be part of a team of drama solvers. this person has access to a hidden forum, where he/she can make a thread for input from the others if needed. the offender, crybaby, and drama solver can also go to a private java chat room if needed.




or...






give me a ban button and i'll take care of problems multiple times on a daily basis. :wink:


--------------------


Anno cock? is that some kind of Greek liqueur? -Geo's All Knowing Sex Slave


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OfflineS8N
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Re: Shroomery Arbitration and Mediation [Re: eric_the_red]
    #4483279 - 08/02/05 12:33 AM (11 years, 9 months ago)

big thanks to link for allowing me to contribute this to the community.

"[23:30] <Link> but yea, people generally trust those who've been around longer and have at least somewhat proven themselves
[23:30] <Link> that's only natural
[23:34] <NinjaZ> yep
[23:35] <NinjaZ> exactly what you said
[23:36] <NinjaZ> so whats the answer your expecting from the other admins?
[23:40] <Link> no idea
[23:40] <Link> it's not really a big issue
[23:40] <Link> it'll prolly basically go like this
[23:41] <Link> 'this user was banned for being underage, but now he says he's not'
[23:41] <Link> 'well do we know either way?'
[23:41] <Link> 'no'
[23:41] <Link> 'do we care if he's banned?'
[23:41] <Link> 'no'
[23:41] <Link> there will basically have to be someone who cares enough to want to unban him
[23:41] <Link> without us really knowing that he's not underage"

do you see a problem with this? a hasty ban is implimented. then once thare, noone cares to review it. i have seen 2 blog pages that say he is 18 years old. and 1 that said otherwise. looking for quick persicution of this user of 150 posts or less, the chat ops were blinded to the odvious truth. im thinking that link agreeing to stripping the social status on instances. anyways this forum was founded on people helping people. condecending higher than thou mentality is bad. its going to destroy this place if not put in check. this one user gets another user banned and brags about it as if its the greatest thing in the world. i came here and quickly made it my mission to end the bull shit, and keep it real. it didnt even take me a week to come to this conclusion. anyways im working on making this place a better place love it or hate it......
st341thn1nj4


--------------------



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Invisiblelegallyhomeless
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Re: Shroomery Arbitration and Mediation [Re: S8N]
    #4483394 - 08/02/05 12:52 AM (11 years, 9 months ago)

How about this...it is kind of an idea already though of in one of the above posts. Each person gets to PM their case ONE time to a group of designated people, make it an odd number. After each case is said the group gets together with the 2 people in question and they talk it out. If an agreement cannot be made the 2 people leave the chat and the group takes a vote. Majority rules. Problem solved


--------------------
MY TRADE LIST!!!

FULLY AUTOMATIC!! 12-Pot Multi Grow Hydroponic System for Trade.


Download PSX ISOs


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OfflineOrganic
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Re: Shroomery Arbitration and Mediation [Re: Ythan]
    #4484274 - 08/02/05 05:20 AM (11 years, 9 months ago)

At first thought, I really think this is a bad idea. Bias and popularity will skew the results everytime. The more I consider it though, it sounds reasonable. I would certainly support a non-moderator team--this could eliminate the need for some mods altogether. I think the Admins should pick the judges/jury...whatever since nominations will immediately lend bias toward a member. More thought is needed :stoned:


--------------------


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InvisibleLinkA
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Re: Shroomery Arbitration and Mediation [Re: S8N]
    #4484537 - 08/02/05 09:40 AM (11 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

ST341THN1NJ4 said:
do you see a problem with this? a hasty ban is implimented. then once thare, noone cares to review it.




I don't know that it's that so much as, without knowing, there's definite error in the decision, and we can either err on the side of caution (keeping underage kids off the server), or err on the side of friendliness (giving the person the benefit of the doubt). We have to factor in things like, what's the person ACT like (an adult/child), does he fit into the community, etc. If the person is higly liked then odds are, unless we're positive they're underage (like they TOLD us, or someone knows him IRL), we'll probably let it slide. But if the person is an annoyance to begin with, and acts like a child, there's no reason to take the chance.

Also, the fact he's aready banned doesn't play that much of a role in the future decision to be made, but was actually a PART of the OVERALL decision. If the user had been a valued part of the community and acted mature, he wouldn't have gotten banned so quickly in the first place.

-Link


--------------------
Wonder had gone away, and he had forgotten that all life is only a set of pictures in the brain, among which there is no difference betwixt those born of real things and those born of inward dreamings, and no cause to value the one above the other.  -- H.P. Lovecraft "The Silver Key"


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InvisibleLiz
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Re: Shroomery Arbitration and Mediation [Re: Ythan]
    #4484920 - 08/02/05 12:39 PM (11 years, 9 months ago)

Maybe I'm just being harsh, but in my opinion, people just need to chill the fuck out.  I mean, arbitration?  Mediation?  Jury of your peers?  For a drug website?   

To me, this all sounds like uptight nonsense.  As far as I'm concerned, a lot of people, myself included in the past, take stuff way too seriously, given the fact that this is ONLINE.  It seems to me that the only possible punishment anyone can hand out to anyone else on this site is a ban.  And even then, people evade them, make puppets, use different IPs....causing even MORE drama.  In my opinion, regardless of what new policy is put in place, there are still going to be people who take things too far, there's still going to be drama, and there's still going to be people who get way too heated and can't just let shit roll off their backs, requiring stupid policy debates like this to be necessary.

People need to settle the fuck down, and stop feeding into the drama.  The admins do a pretty good job of keeping up with all of it, and I don't think a random group of selected shroomerites would be an improvement to the way things are currently handled.  What we all need to remember is, this is the shroomery.  It's supposed to be a fun, non-stressful, informational community, and a lot of people who claim to care about it, are tarnishing it with their words (text) and decisions that they make. 

My suggestion is this - if you get offended, if you feel something is being handled the wrong way, if you're mad enough to get all up in arms and write a post in the WAF forum about it, go outside, to the REAL world, and take a walk.  If the problem is still as huge when you come back inside, after putting things in perspective, maybe PM an admin, or a mod or whatever, because posting about drama just feeds into it for the most part.

Just my 2 cents :shrug:


--------------------
Remember, remember the fifth of November
The gunpowder treason and plot.
I see no reason why gunpowder treason
Should ever be forgot.




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OfflineDroz
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Re: Shroomery Arbitration and Mediation [Re: Liz]
    #4485560 - 08/02/05 03:40 PM (11 years, 9 months ago)

Shroomery Chat. So i enter chat which there is contantly drama, i think i am in part of it by cussing a lot and calling people fags and cocks. But it seems i have turned to the darkside of the shroomery. What we need is for shroomerites to get along and get things accomplished. But it doesn't seem like people are motivated to do anything. It's like we are completely satisfied living far apart and going to gatherings every once in a while and get super intoxicated.

I hope one day for the shroomery to come together and get centralized and start communicating in a manner that shows we can accomplish something. I know there are things like the hempfest and how the shroomery has it's own booth. I'd go if it wasn't for money reasons.

Also i'm one of the few that really is motivated to buying an island for all the shroomerites. Build a nice resort and live in peace on an illustrious island. It would be the best in the world for that to happen. Let's hope one day my dream comes true.

Let's start the centralization. Build a town together. Stop the drama and live in peace with each fellow shroomerite.

Peace,
Droz


--------------------
Evolution of Time.


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Invisiblesrgtm1a
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Re: Shroomery Arbitration and Mediation [Re: Droz]
    #4486343 - 08/02/05 07:22 PM (11 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

Droz said:

Also i'm one of the few that really is motivated to buying an island for all the shroomerites. Build a nice resort and live in peace on an illustrious island. It would be the best in the world for that to happen. Let's hope one day my dream comes true.

Let's start the centralization. Build a town together. Stop the drama and live in peace with each fellow shroomerite.

Peace,
Droz




ok...put the bag of weed down on the floor....take two steps away from the bag.....do it slowly.... :smirk: :grin: :grin:

yer such a hippie droz :grin: :smirk:


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OfflineThe_Red_Crayon
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Re: Shroomery Arbitration and Mediation [Re: Ythan]
    #4486757 - 08/02/05 09:22 PM (11 years, 9 months ago)

all i know is i need to be a mod in otd. Im completely third party.


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Invisibledblaney
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Re: Shroomery Arbitration and Mediation [Re: Ythan]
    #4486993 - 08/02/05 10:46 PM (11 years, 9 months ago)

I think this is a good idea. There is a LOT of dramatic stuff going on around here. The vast majority of it is simple disagreements and the like.

A court-like system, with judge and jury, IMO, would be a very tedious thing to organize for simple problems such as these. In these cases, I think mediation would be an excellent way to go about things. Also, a chat room or private forum which only the involved parties can access would be critical, otherwise the process would be complicated.

A court type proceeding MIGHT be warranted for big problems, or as an option for those who request it.

I know I don't have many posts and am not too well known around here, but I would like to offer my help for mediation, if there is any need. I took a few week long course on peer mediation a few years back, and do my best in day to day life to mediate disputes between friends and other people who are having disagreements. I took a law class, and so have some experience there. I like trying to keep the peace between people, and would enjoy helping to mediate disputes here. I try to be fair and just in all aspects of my life, and would vow to be just in all mediations.

Anyways, that's just my 2 cents


--------------------
"What is in us that turns a deaf ear to the cries of human suffering?"

"Belief is a beautiful armor
But makes for the heaviest sword"
- John Mayer

Making the noise "penicillin" is no substitute for actually taking penicillin.

"This country, with its institutions, belongs to the people who inhabit it. Whenever they shall grow weary of the existing government, they can exercise their constitutional right of amending it, or their revolutionary right to dismember or overthrow it." -Abraham Lincoln


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Invisibledblaney
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Re: Shroomery Arbitration and Mediation [Re: dblaney]
    #4487005 - 08/02/05 10:49 PM (11 years, 9 months ago)

Also, I see no problem with a mod also being a mediator, just so long as the case doesn't involve a board-specific problem or similar, in which case it would be a conflict of interest, and they should not be allowed to mediate.


--------------------
"What is in us that turns a deaf ear to the cries of human suffering?"

"Belief is a beautiful armor
But makes for the heaviest sword"
- John Mayer

Making the noise "penicillin" is no substitute for actually taking penicillin.

"This country, with its institutions, belongs to the people who inhabit it. Whenever they shall grow weary of the existing government, they can exercise their constitutional right of amending it, or their revolutionary right to dismember or overthrow it." -Abraham Lincoln


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OfflinePhred
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Re: Shroomery Arbitration and Mediation [Re: Ythan]
    #4487327 - 08/03/05 12:10 AM (11 years, 9 months ago)

Ythan writes:

Quote:

Right now when members have a conflict, there is no formal process for seeking resolution.




It might help if we first define "conflict". Are we talking about folks flaming each other? If so, I was under the impression we already had a process for dealing with flames in forums in which there is an anti-flaming rule -- .i.e. moderator warnings followed by a ban. If the flaming occurs in a forum in which flaming is allowed... well... what did you expect?

If by "conflict" you mean something other than flaming, what is it?

I think ifallapart summed it up nicely. That was a good post.





Phred


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InvisibleRoadkill
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Re: Shroomery Arbitration and Mediation [Re: Liz]
    #4488619 - 08/03/05 05:40 AM (11 years, 9 months ago)

great post sis.

very well said.

---

Y,

Seems like your getting a little overwelmed...due to the lack of Admins that are around here at the moment.

You just brought your buddy Toqom on board as a Admin...put him to work handling some of these affairs.

I know that Geo usually handles alot of these kind of situations...maybe get him an assistant.
OR get another new Admin just to deal with these kind of problems...
hopefully someone that will be fair and won't put up with BS.

tc


--------------------
Laterz, Road

Who the hell you callin crazy?
You wouldn't know what crazy was if Charles Manson was eating froot loops on your front porch!


Brainiac said:
PM the names with on there names, that means they have mushrooms for sale.



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