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InvisibleHuehuecoyotl
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Unnatural...
    #4440877 - 07/23/05 02:11 AM (11 years, 4 months ago)

There is a common misconceotion gripping most humans, as I see it. The word natural is tossed around a lot. What is natural? What is natural living? Dictionary.com says: Present in or produced by nature. That is a solid definition. So why are certain foods, drugs, and vitamins defined as natural. The synthesized Vitamin C is identical to the naturally produced Vitamin C in chemical structure. Plant chemical sources are just more dilute in their plant form, but perform an efficient extraction and you have a powerful substance. Many people consider "natural" drugs like marijuana, mushrooms or peyote to be more healthy....but most of these people would not hesitate to pop a dose of "synthesized" LSD. Lets look at lifespan. Many people consider using mechanical means of life support to be unnatural, but man has been increasing his lifespan with technology since the stone age. I consider that there are no unnatural drugs, foods, or technology. There are many unsavory foods, drugs, and technologies...but they are all natural and as "God intended." Anything that made it through the Big Bang is natural. Hell, on Titan it rains methane. On Earth that would be catastrophic, but on Titan it is completely natural.


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"A warrior is a hunter. He calculates everything. That's control. Once his calculations are over, he acts. He lets go. That's abandon. A warrior is not a leaf at the mercy of the wind. No one can push him; no one can make him do things against himself or against his better judgment. A warrior is tuned to survive, and he survives in the best of all possible fashions." ― Carlos Castaneda


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Offlinecrunchytoast
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Re: Unnatural... [Re: Huehuecoyotl]
    #4440960 - 07/23/05 02:29 AM (11 years, 4 months ago)

humans are part of nature
the upper echelon of the animal kingdom (from the perspective of our own little niche)
what we make is part of nature
environmentalism IMO should be having compassion for the non-human AND the human, whereas usually it's the non-human at the expense of the human


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"consensus on the nature of equilibrium is usually established by periodic conflict." -henry kissinger


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OfflineDeviate
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Re: Unnatural... [Re: crunchytoast]
    #4441018 - 07/23/05 02:44 AM (11 years, 4 months ago)

unnatural is anything created by humans. this doesn't mean humans aren't part of nature, you could define unnatural as anything created by beavers and that definition would still work. it's just the word we use to distinguish to between those things that have been influenced/created by human conciousness and those that have not.


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Offlinefireworks_godS
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Re: Unnatural... [Re: Deviate]
    #4441043 - 07/23/05 02:54 AM (11 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

Deviate said:
it's just the word we use to distinguish to between those things that have been influenced/created by human conciousness and those that have not.




His whole point is that using this word in such a manner is incorrect usage, by very nature of the definition of the word. :wink:

Find your own fucking word, this one's taken! :mad: :tongue: :wink:

:headbang: :headbang: :headbang: :satansmoking:
Peace. :mushroom2:


--------------------
:redpanda:
If I should die this very moment
I wouldn't fear
For I've never known completeness
Like being here
Wrapped in the warmth of you
Loving every breath of you

:heartpump: :bunnyhug: :yinyang:

:yinyang: :levitate: :earth: :levitate: :yinyang:


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InvisibleSwami
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Re: Unnatural... [Re: fireworks_god]
    #4441066 - 07/23/05 03:01 AM (11 years, 4 months ago)

A 300 pound woman in a mini skirt and a halter top is unnatural. *shudders*


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The proof is in the pudding.


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InvisibleHuehuecoyotl
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Re: Unnatural... [Re: Swami]
    #4441068 - 07/23/05 03:02 AM (11 years, 4 months ago)

What if the 300lb woman is 8 feet tall?


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"A warrior is a hunter. He calculates everything. That's control. Once his calculations are over, he acts. He lets go. That's abandon. A warrior is not a leaf at the mercy of the wind. No one can push him; no one can make him do things against himself or against his better judgment. A warrior is tuned to survive, and he survives in the best of all possible fashions." ― Carlos Castaneda


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InvisibleSwami
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Re: Unnatural... [Re: Huehuecoyotl]
    #4441072 - 07/23/05 03:03 AM (11 years, 4 months ago)

My nose would be in a strategic spot while standing...


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The proof is in the pudding.


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InvisibleIcelander
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Re: Unnatural... [Re: Huehuecoyotl]
    #4441921 - 07/23/05 09:37 AM (11 years, 4 months ago)

yes :thumbup: How can things that come from nature not be? However manipulated, it is nature doing the manipulation.  :smile:


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"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


Edited by Icelander (07/23/05 09:39 AM)


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OfflineGomp
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Re: Unnatural... [Re: Huehuecoyotl]
    #4441944 - 07/23/05 09:52 AM (11 years, 4 months ago)

what is natural is unnaturally natural! :P


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Disclaimer!?


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Invisibleniteowl
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Re: Unnatural... [Re: Gomp]
    #4442154 - 07/23/05 12:03 PM (11 years, 4 months ago)

I see many people using the term natural when they really mean organic


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InvisibleIcelander
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Re: Unnatural... [Re: niteowl]
    #4442253 - 07/23/05 12:32 PM (11 years, 4 months ago)

Please define the difference in those terms. :mushroom2:


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


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InvisibleHuehuecoyotl
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Re: Unnatural... [Re: Icelander]
    #4442302 - 07/23/05 12:42 PM (11 years, 4 months ago)

Organic means that it has carbon compounds in it. Organic gardening uses no synthesized fertilizers.


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"A warrior is a hunter. He calculates everything. That's control. Once his calculations are over, he acts. He lets go. That's abandon. A warrior is not a leaf at the mercy of the wind. No one can push him; no one can make him do things against himself or against his better judgment. A warrior is tuned to survive, and he survives in the best of all possible fashions." ― Carlos Castaneda


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InvisibleIcelander
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Re: Unnatural... [Re: Huehuecoyotl]
    #4442322 - 07/23/05 12:46 PM (11 years, 4 months ago)

So then no synthesized materials have carbon compounds in them?


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


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InvisibleHuehuecoyotl
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Re: Unnatural... [Re: Icelander]
    #4442373 - 07/23/05 12:53 PM (11 years, 4 months ago)

There is a whole field of chemistry devoted to carbon chemicals...organic chemistry. LSD is an organic material. I was refering also to the gardening term. "Organic" fertilizers are more dilute and cause less damage to the environment...they also do not toxify food. As stated, though, all chemicals are natural. Chemicals still in the vegetable or animal state are more dilute and more easily controlled in many instances.


--------------------
"A warrior is a hunter. He calculates everything. That's control. Once his calculations are over, he acts. He lets go. That's abandon. A warrior is not a leaf at the mercy of the wind. No one can push him; no one can make him do things against himself or against his better judgment. A warrior is tuned to survive, and he survives in the best of all possible fashions." ― Carlos Castaneda


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Offlinecb9fl
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Re: Unnatural... [Re: Huehuecoyotl]
    #4442382 - 07/23/05 12:55 PM (11 years, 4 months ago)



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It is better to be hated for what you are than to be loved for what you are not. -Andre Gide

"Generosity is nothing else than a craze to possess. All which I abandon, all which I give, I enjoy in a higher manner through the fact that I give it away. To give is to enjoy possessively the object which one gives."


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InvisibleHuehuecoyotl
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Re: Unnatural... [Re: cb9fl]
    #4442398 - 07/23/05 12:58 PM (11 years, 4 months ago)

Well,hey, I wasn't around that day. We all know that history repeats itself.


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"A warrior is a hunter. He calculates everything. That's control. Once his calculations are over, he acts. He lets go. That's abandon. A warrior is not a leaf at the mercy of the wind. No one can push him; no one can make him do things against himself or against his better judgment. A warrior is tuned to survive, and he survives in the best of all possible fashions." ― Carlos Castaneda


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InvisibleSwami
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Re: Unnatural... [Re: Huehuecoyotl]
    #4442501 - 07/23/05 01:17 PM (11 years, 4 months ago)

We all know that history repeats itself.


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The proof is in the pudding.


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Invisibleniteowl
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Re: Unnatural... [Re: Icelander]
    #4444676 - 07/23/05 10:51 PM (11 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

Icelander said:
Please define the difference in those terms. :mushroom2:




Since everything is natural (even man made things) there needs to be a term to define things that are grown.....plants for the most part.
Organic is the first term that comes to mind, I'm sure there may be a better term.

When I think of a natural drug I'm referring to all the plants that have intoxicating effects in their original form (un-altered by man)....weed and shrooms are the main two.

There are many drugs that are made with/from plants (cocaine, heroin, alcohol...). I don't consider these drugs to be natural because they have to be altered/produced by man.
If you chew the coca leaf to get the intoxicating effects, then your using the drug in its natural/original form and is probably much safer than the refined, man-made cocaine.

Most (if not all) man made drugs are toxic, and can lead to an overdose/death.

Natural/Organic drugs are, IMO, much safer than their man-made cousins.


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OfflineBlueCoyote
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Re: Unnatural... [Re: niteowl]
    #4445897 - 07/24/05 05:47 AM (11 years, 4 months ago)

Good definition.
What about 'grades' of naturality ?
The 100% natural, is completely without the conscious influece of man. Like a 100% natural fruit is only a fruit which has grown on a free-grown (not planted) tree, eaten fresh (without conservation) ?
The next grade is a fruit from a, lets say, watered but unplanted tree.
Next grade unplanted but watered and fertilized tree.
The next level, planted but unsupported tree... and so on, untill we land on a 'fruit' that has been built in some lab from total synthetic substances.

I see naturality not as a qualitative, more a quantitive matter.


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Though lovers be lost love shall not  And death shall have no dominion
........................................................
"Our scientific power has outrun our spiritual power. We have guided missiles and misguided men."Martin Luther King, Jr.
'Acceptance is the absolute key - at that moment you gain freedom and you gain power and you gain courage'


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InvisibleIcelander
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Re: Unnatural... [Re: BlueCoyote]
    #4446129 - 07/24/05 08:59 AM (11 years, 4 months ago)

However you slice it Hue's right. Everything is natural in the end. Even the term unnatural. :grin:


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


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