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 yodabuds
Stranger, andstrangerstill....
Registered: 06/20/05
Posts: 79
Last seen: 9 years, 1 month
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 LC into H-Poo 
#4399485 - 07/13/05 01:42 PM (16 years, 3 months ago) |
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Hi,
I got a baby botle (karo tek) with LC in it... I just went to a stable today and got a HUGE BUCKET(the big laundry detergent ones you get at sams club)filled with H-Poo... I was able to wealk around and get the poo myself... I tried getting the dryest poo I could find, Picked nmostly top of piles, cause underneath was still moist. I always asmused with H-Poo you need huge buckets filled... now with my limited knowledge I know I can use enough to fill a small pan and make a casing out of that... Im going to try in a couple of days(I want the poo to be sure its ready for pasturization)
Im than going to break up a brf cake into the poo and incubate it for a few days...
I was wondering though could I take the LV from the baby bottle and just add it to some sterlized poo to get it to colonize?
Yoda
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lardnar
Pu Pu Platter
Registered: 06/16/05
Posts: 703
Loc: Behind what appears
Last seen: 14 years, 8 months
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Re: LC into H-Poo [Re: yodabuds]
#4399576 - 07/13/05 02:05 PM (16 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
yodabuds said:
I was wondering though could I take the LV from the baby bottle and just add it to some sterlized poo to get it to colonize?
Yoda
Many thanks for asking what I was wondering 
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If your soul is sence this life is lost ...
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pcubmycol
flattiefisherman
Registered: 05/23/05
Posts: 747
Loc: Selectively breeding the ...
Last seen: 13 years, 5 months
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Re: LC into H-Poo [Re: lardnar]
#4399642 - 07/13/05 02:19 PM (16 years, 3 months ago) |
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I wouldnt sterilize the poo, just pasturize... I would iamgine that it would work but i think that if it was better than spawn that alot more people would talk about it. Id stick with spawning WBS to poo. Considering how I havent read anything about this, it sounds like it should be an experiment for ya and let us know how it goes.
Happy Trails and GL to ya bro
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scatmanrav
Brainy Smurf
Registered: 05/08/04
Posts: 11,483
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Re: LC into H-Poo [Re: pcubmycol]
#4399671 - 07/13/05 02:25 PM (16 years, 3 months ago) |
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It CAN be done IF you do it right. Likly to lead to more failure then sterilizing and creating jars of spawn, then pasteurizing poo and spawning, IMO. Not if your experienced enough to know how to handle it, but for those new to poo and its little nuances (sp?).
Heres how it would be done RIGHT:
http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Cat/0/Number/4340904/an/0/page/0
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 Roadkill
Retired Shroomery Mod
Registered: 12/11/01
Posts: 22,674
Loc: Montana
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 Re: LC into H-Poo [Re: yodabuds]
#4399705 - 07/13/05 02:32 PM (16 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
yodabuds said:
I was wondering though could I take the LC from the baby bottle and just add it to some sterlized poo to get it to colonize?
I have been experimenting with this for many months now.
Yes it is possible.
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Laterz, Road
Who the hell you callin crazy?
You wouldn't know what crazy was if Charles Manson was eating froot loops on your front porch!
Brainiac said:
PM the names with  on there names, that means they have mushrooms for sale.
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agar
old hand
Registered: 11/21/04
Posts: 9,056
Loc: Somewhere Else
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Re: LC into H-Poo [Re: Roadkill]
#4399738 - 07/13/05 02:44 PM (16 years, 3 months ago) |
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Only way I have had luck with LC to h/poo is in filter/patch bags. I still lose 1 out of 4 bags - that way. Which is not an acceptable rate (to me).
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Roadkill
Retired Shroomery Mod
Registered: 12/11/01
Posts: 22,674
Loc: Montana
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Re: LC into H-Poo [Re: agar]
#4399756 - 07/13/05 02:49 PM (16 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
agar said:
Only way I have had luck with LC to h/poo is in filter/patch bags. I still lose 1 out of 4 bags - that way. Which is not an acceptable rate (to me).
The only way that I had success was with a filter/patch bag too!~
and the contam rate is a little high...for my liking too.
I'm still playing around with LC's to straight horse poo.
so my experimnets are not over...by any means.
tc
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Laterz, Road
Who the hell you callin crazy?
You wouldn't know what crazy was if Charles Manson was eating froot loops on your front porch!
Brainiac said:
PM the names with on there names, that means they have mushrooms for sale.
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Amazoniandreams
Today is thetomorow youworried aboutyesturday
Registered: 06/11/05
Posts: 67
Last seen: 16 years, 2 months
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Re: LC into H-Poo [Re: Roadkill]
#4400483 - 07/13/05 06:07 PM (16 years, 3 months ago) |
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I tried this as well and it does work, but why bother? In my experience spawning jars into poo works much better. I used a 1:4 ratio of brf to straight poo and it colonized in 4 days and the jars only took 11 days to fully colonize. There are alot of things that CAN be done, but unless you're really into experimenting then it doesn't seem like a good way to go. In the future, however, I hope that roadkill perfects the method to a point where it would be viable to do. I am in no way saying not to try, but if you are looking for the best results then stick to spawning into poo. Thats just my opinion anyway. Goodluck!!
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Blue Helix
bold hand
Registered: 02/02/03
Posts: 1,558
Last seen: 1 month, 1 day
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I have done about five bags with WBS:poo (about 1:1), and vermiculite (about 30%) and some miscellenous other stuff in tiny amounts. All of these bags were inoculated with mycelium supensions. Three were inoculated using the live cultures developed using the techniques I found on here (first time). Each of those three using the liquid cultures literally BLEW UP with mycelium growth and were done in 7 days. I did not experience the slightest problem at all and the trays are pinning now.
I think what happens to some is that they figure they're dealing with poo so they get sloppy with proper proceedure. Sterilized poo needs to be treated just like sterilized grain. That means unless you have a really sterilized workplace--and most of us don't--you must not introduce air into the spawn bags before you seal them. All air that touches the contents of the spawn bags must have passed through some form of filtration. I sealed the spawn bags immediately after I took them out of the pressure cooker, taking care not to let any air into the bag. It's not too hard either since the pressure cooker tends to sort of push the bag flaps together. Once I got a good seal, I hung them up to cool. Their own weight drew air into the bags. If you hang them up, you'll need strong rubber-footed wood clamps or something like that.
When you inoculate those bags, you have to also be careful to seal the hole completely and rapidly upon removing the needle. That means hot glue or a self-sealing port. I always tape the bag before I pressure cook it to allow for a good surface for the hot glue. If you don't do that, the hot glue will melt the bag.
Getting the moisture right in those bags is a matter of using vermiculite really. Some people don't want to use it because they know it doesn't contain nutrients. True, it doesn't. So what? Mushrooms need a lot of water too, and growing in any substrate that doesn't have enough results in a brick after your first flush. Ever see pure grain after the first flush? It'll be a brick. Vermiculite helps as does manure too (both contain more water and less nutrients than grain).
The last thing I'd be careful about with spawn bags are the awesome heat potential they have during colonization. I noticed this by sitting one on a temp probe with heat-reflective bubble wrap underneath while it was colonizing. They can climb to around 10 degrees over ambient EASILY. In extreme cases, they can soar to even higher, maybe 15F over ambient. You need to keep those bags separated and out open space. Don't try to incubate them in an enclosed space or else you're asking for trouble.
Here is one of the WBS/poo/vermiculite bags after 4 days, 3 days before I laid the tray. It was inoculated with 120ml of liquid culture (all three bags looked identical at this stage):
Just to let you see what it looks like, here is the injection point after the hot glue was put on:
Edited by Blue Helix (07/14/05 02:33 AM)
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finding_self
Stranger
Registered: 05/15/05
Posts: 489
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h
Edited by finding_self (04/18/06 09:43 PM)
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scatmanrav
Brainy Smurf
Registered: 05/08/04
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I know he used to spawn, as he said hes only done 5 bags in this way...hes done more poo then that before though..
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barisk
Psychonaut Doctor
Registered: 09/18/04
Posts: 99
Last seen: 3 months, 25 days
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Hi bluehelix I have couple of questions for you.
1.How do you hidrate poo and grain ? Soaking them 24 hours?
2.Do you use lime ?
3.Do you think it's a good idea to use 5 poo 3 straw and 2 grain.Or do you think straw will cut the bags ?
4.How many cc's do you use for one liter poo/grain/vermiculate mixture ?
Thanks....
Peace 
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Blue Helix
bold hand
Registered: 02/02/03
Posts: 1,558
Last seen: 1 month, 1 day
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FunMatic, yeah, I have spawned, many, many times. It works really well, provided you don't get the manure too wet, try to supplement the manure with too much, or allow the manure to overheat during the spawn. High levels of spawning create more heat than any other stage of mushroom growth I know. A 30% spawned tray can soar as high as any spawn bag. Having said that, I don't do that now since spawning takes an extra 10 days or so, and I get no benefit from it. I can fill my pressure cooker with four spawn bags which hold about about 13-14 dry pounds. But my fruiter is only big enough to hold 3 12-quart trays, about 10 dry pounds of grain/manure. Why should I spawn? It takes extra time and I already can hold enough grain in my cooker to produce about 1.5 pounds dry! I do not need more than that. Even if all my friends and I trip all year and I give shroomy presents, that's enough since I don't sell now. I am thinking of doing a run of portabellas later this year, so I might spawn out at that time.
I was looking back, and I forgot that I had done about 5 other bags this way late last year and early this year (keep in mind that I don't grow constantly and often not for many months). So, I've done closer to 10 bags this way before. I've only done 3 with the malt/dextrose liquid culture, and those are currently pinning and will be the best I've ever had. The rest were done with agar scraped and the particles sucked up. Here's another picture of a bag with manure/WBS/vermiculite I did in March:
All of this started when I had the idea that dehydrated manure can help suck up that extra water in the bags just like vermiculite, so why not just use it that way? I mean once grain has been soaked, simmered, and well drained, it really can use something between the grains that help with moisture control. I now use dehydrated manure and vermiculite rather than just vermiculite. I figured it would be better than straight vermiculite since manure also contains nutrients, but manure without some vericulite doesn't seem quite as good some I use both.
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Blue Helix
bold hand
Registered: 02/02/03
Posts: 1,558
Last seen: 1 month, 1 day
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Re: LC into H-Poo [Re: barisk]
#4403054 - 07/14/05 12:17 PM (16 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
barisk said:
Hi bluehelix I have couple of questions for you.
1.How do you hidrate poo and grain ? Soaking them 24 hours?
2.Do you use lime ?
3.Do you think it's a good idea to use 5 poo 3 straw and 2 grain.Or do you think straw will cut the bags ?
4.How many cc's do you use for one liter poo/grain/vermiculite mixture ?
Thanks....
Peace
1) I don't hydrate them together. After trying a few variations, I currently like soaking the grains in a big metal pot overnight with the oven on warm (the water is about 110F by the end). Then I simmer for 15 to 25 minutes until the grains look well hydrated but not bursting. The grains are then drained using a screen over my sink just like Scatmanrav showed me. I then mix in dehydrated manure and vermiculite to the mix. That tends to soak up the extra water around the grain. If I need a little more water, I add it to the right feel. I tend to keep the mix a tiny bit on the dry side since I use a lot of liquid culture (100+ ml per full spawn bag).
2) I never use hydrated lime for the bags. I never use any calcium carbonate for the bags. Most birdseed mixes have calcium carbonate powder in them already anyway for that trace of calcium. I also never use gypsum. Every time I have used gypsum, I have seen weakened growth with cubensis. I don't think they like it like other mushrooms do.
3) Straw will not cut the bags. If you are growing other types of mushrooms, some wood chips can make a hole in the bag, but you can still use wood chips if you are careful. Those bags are way too strong to be torn by straw, though. I would load the straw in dehydrated and let it hydrate during the pressure cook cycle. For me I pressure cook 3 to 4 hours, heating my wobble-weight cooker so the weight don't wobble but almost does (hate all that noise of the weight while I am trying to watch TV).
About straw: in bags, straw has, in my view, only ONE purpose, as a powerful fluffing component. That is, if you aren't using vermiculite, you need something to fluff up the mix. Straw does that well and provides "mycelium highways" throughout the substrate in the holes in the middle of the straw. As a fluffing component, use just enough to get the mix fluffed up. With different types of manure that could be different ratios. Your 3-to-5 is too much straw, in my opinion. I would use closer to 2-to-5 or even 1-to-5 (depends on the muddiness of the manure), or if you use vermiculite in the mix, forget the straw all together.
4) I never considered the real liter capacity of the bags, so I got out my spawn bags and checked them out with a water-fill test for you. Normally I load them with about 4 liters of material. I inject about 100-140ml into that bag if I am using something like manure and/or vermiculite that can soak that much up (grain alone will not take that much before it pools). So, I would say I use 25 to 35 ml per liter of substrate provided you are generously using vermiculite and/or manure in the mix. Is that the absolute maximum? I don't know. I use that much because my syringe is 140ml and I don't want to inject twice. You'd have to experiment to know the maximum. All I know is that last time the bags were done in like 6 days. That's fast enough for me.
Once you mix in the liquid culture, you need to gentle mix up the grains as best you can. That is another reason it's good to hang the bags to get the air in there because it is nearly impossible to mix the bags unless you have a good pocket of air in there.
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Amazoniandreams
Today is thetomorow youworried aboutyesturday
Registered: 06/11/05
Posts: 67
Last seen: 16 years, 2 months
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Wow, thats looks great. Maybe I will give it another shot!!
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barisk
Psychonaut Doctor
Registered: 09/18/04
Posts: 99
Last seen: 3 months, 25 days
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Thank you for your detailed post.Everything shines in my mind
Peace
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