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Re: i droped out of high school 3 times!! [Re: nightkrawler]
    #4391431 -

Gates dropped out of Harvard not because he didnt want to continue the education nor didnt have the budget but because he already found what he was going to do his entire life, and didnt see a point in staying in school. And no matter how much anyone bashes Gates, the computer industry wouldnt be as advanced as it is if it wasnt for Microsoft, and IBM for that matter. ...And the man did LSD  :wink:

Dropping out really is only a good option when education starts to interfere with your career.


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010001100100001001000101!

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Re: i droped out of high school 3 times!! [Re: Fospher]
    #4391459 -

Fospher said:
And no matter how much anyone bashes Gates, the computer industry wouldnt be as advanced as it is if it wasnt for Microsoft, and IBM for that matter.


i disagree. i think microsofts policies of buying out innovative competitors, refusal to support the open source movement, and constant drive to 're-invent' (or, better put, patent) the wheel (for example, what they've done with java) have stifled the computer industry more than anything. had they had a business ethic more akin with Sun or the GNU movement in general, i think we would be light years ahead of where we are today.


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Re: i droped out of high school 3 times!! [Re: Krishna]
    #4391486 -

I didn't find that list too inspiring. Mostly 'Self made american businessman' and other american icons. That doesn't mean much, other than that they know how to be greedy and expand expand expand. Basically the list was way too american so being someone who doesn't really look up to america as a nation at all it doesn't do it for me.

Then theres the people on the list like Einstein who are pretty cool but then you look and see that while they may have dropped out of high school many of them went to university or some kind of technology school etc. And others were homeschooled.

Then theres others still, Christopher Columbus for example, who not only lived in a time when pretty much no one went to school anyway, but the things that they did weren't even that 'scholarly' to start off with.

I don't think that anyone with half a brain actually thinks that you have to complete high school to do something with your life. If a person is smart anyway they will be able to make things work somehow. And I know plenty of people who dropped out and took on appreniceships etc. The sad truth is that in this world we need to earn money, and that is a hell of a lot easier to do when you have qualifications. Although I did go to school in New Zealand where things were pretty chilled out, maybe its a different story in the states, I probably wouldn't have enjoyed school there.

So yeah I suppose my point is, dropping out isn't all bad, but if you were going to do it, you'd want to have the right reasons. If you already had alternative plans with what to do to help you earn money etc, then sure, go for it. Whereas if you didn't really have a plan for your life and werent too sure of what direction to take, then public schooling seems to be the 'safe' route, by which you will at least be able to 'fit in' to society etc. and get a 'normal' job.

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Re: i droped out of high school 3 times!! [Re: Fospher]
    #4392110 -

If Gates had not been there CPM would have gotten the contract to provide IBM with an operating system. Bill Gates undercut CPM by hiring someone to steal CPM. Thay did not even change the variable names in the code before marketing it is MSDOS. Gates and Company have destroyed many new technologies by buying them and liquidating them or just flat out stealing them. The computer hardware and software industry has been at a standstill for 10 years now because Microsoft attempts to keep users locked into their technology which advances at a snails pace, while suppressing new technology to retain dominance at the minimum cost. Bill Gates has held back the industry more than he has advanced it. Just because someone did LSD once does not make them enlightened. Bill Gates dropped quit Harvard because he realized con men need instinct more than education.


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"A warrior is a hunter. He calculates everything. That's control. Once his calculations are over, he acts. He lets go. That's abandon. A warrior is not a leaf at the mercy of the wind. No one can push him; no one can make him do things against himself or against his better judgment. A warrior is tuned to survive, and he survives in the best of all possible fashions." ― Carlos Castaneda

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Re: i droped out of high school 3 times!! [Re: uriahchase]
    #4392122 -

Hmmm...How about a list of the people who dropped out of high school and went on to become trailer-trash, drug addicts, teen moms + dads, deadbeats, and jailbirds....

Bet its alot longer than that....


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After one comes, through contact with it's administrators, no longer to cherish greatly the law as a remedy in abuses, then the bottle becomes a sovereign means of direct action.  If you cannot throw it at least you can always drink out of it.  - Ernest Hemingway

If it is life that you feel you are missing I can tell you where to find it.  In the law courts, in business, in government.  There is nothing occurring in the streets. Nothing but a dumbshow composed of the helpless and the impotent.    -Cormac MacCarthy

He who learns must suffer. And even in our sleep pain that cannot forget falls drop by drop upon the heart, and in our own despair, against our will, comes wisdom to us by the awful grace of God.  - Aeschylus

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Re: i droped out of high school 3 times!! [Re: Madtowntripper]
    #4392166 -

Plenty of people with high-school diplomas would be on that list, too.  Participating in an educational system does not necessarily result in becoming educated OR successful, nor does dropping out necessarily result in being uneducated or unsuccessful.

We are what we make of ourselves, whatever experiences we choose to include in our lives.  Some are able to navigate society in a way we deem to equal success.  Few stop to consider what THEY consider to be a successful life.  As we ride the merry-go-round, reaching for those gold rings, think for a moment about what you truly value.

IMO if your education ends the day you receive the ultimate piece of paper, you are missing a world of knowledge.  Also, if you think the piece of paper makes you better than those who do not possess it, you are missing out on many educational connections.

:heart:

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Re: i droped out of high school 3 times!! [Re: Veritas]
    #4392203 -

It is fact that people with poor educations are more prone to making uninformed decisions. This is just because they are ignorant of possibilities or consequences due to their lack of education. There are always exeptions to the rule when you look at very bright, self motivated people, but most (not all) high school drop outs are not bright or self motivated. In the end an education is worth what you can accomplish with it...that is it's total value. Without some degree of education, though, many people in our society are crippled.


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"A warrior is a hunter. He calculates everything. That's control. Once his calculations are over, he acts. He lets go. That's abandon. A warrior is not a leaf at the mercy of the wind. No one can push him; no one can make him do things against himself or against his better judgment. A warrior is tuned to survive, and he survives in the best of all possible fashions." ― Carlos Castaneda

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Re: i droped out of high school 3 times!! [Re: Huehuecoyotl]
    #4392251 -

Yes, and I have met MANY high school graduates who do not have the degree of education necessary to enable them to function in their professional or personal lives. My mother has tutored high school graduates who could not read.

My point was not that high school drop-outs are well-equipped for a successful life, but that high school is not necessarily effective in preparing people to be successful. Someone who opts out of public education may put their brain on a shelf. The same is true of someone who goes through the motions of completing their education.

I worked as a Teaching Assistant at a state University, and was astonished at the level of work turned in by students in every year. While the admissions requirements of a State U are fairly low compared to a private U, all students must have a diploma or GED certificate. These students were no more prepared for thinking/learning than my 12 year old son (and his spelling is better!).

I certainly agree that remaining ignorant increases the likelihood that people will make poor decisions, but public education is not a gleaming torch of knowledge, banishing ignorance to the darkest corners. It is possible to become educated in OR out of public school, and to remain ignorant in OR out of public school.

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Re: i droped out of high school 3 times!! [Re: Veritas]
    #4392369 -

You are discussing the exeptions to the rule. Neither of my parents had high school diplomas. My mother retired from being a funeral director and my father retired as a pipefitter. Both were very successful making over $100,000 per year between them. My father concedes that without a college degree, these days, they will not even accept an apprentice into his union local. My father has worked as a mechanical engineer on many jobs in both title and action before...his education was long years of experience. This is no longer the norm or even considered. Public education is what the student makes of it, and I will concede that many are allowed to fall through the cracks, but to say no education is better is ill informed. At least they get the opportunity to learn. My wife is a special ed teacher for 8th grade at the school where I work. Many students (mentally retarded) who come into her class with no previous concept of reading, leave the 8th grade with at least a basic understanding of how to read. There are people who care and try. Until there is a new paradigm the best option is to make public education work better...the fact that teachers are underpaid for their efforts is a contributing factor as to why poorly qualified teachers make it into the system.


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"A warrior is a hunter. He calculates everything. That's control. Once his calculations are over, he acts. He lets go. That's abandon. A warrior is not a leaf at the mercy of the wind. No one can push him; no one can make him do things against himself or against his better judgment. A warrior is tuned to survive, and he survives in the best of all possible fashions." ― Carlos Castaneda

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Re: i droped out of high school 3 times!! [Re: Huehuecoyotl]
    #4392440 -

Quote:
to say no education is better is ill informed.


I did not say this in either of my posts. My point was that ANY education is what we make of it! The public education system is hindered by many factors, not the least of which is the low priority it has when it comes time to allocate government funds. I know several current and former public school teachers (including my mother) who struggle to encourage a love of learning in a system focused on test scores.

Do not mistake my intention in posting on this thread: I am not running down public school teachers, or even the idea of public education. What I am saying is that merely attending or not attending public school does not make or break a life.

I love learning, and intend to continue learning for the rest of my life. I do not see learning as something isolated to a classroom. I attended public school for 2.5 years, was home taught for 10 years, and have over 200 college credits in four different majors. I will complete my degree once both my sons are in school.

My older son was home taught until 4th grade, but chose to enter public school when my second son was born (and he suddenly had much less of my attention). He says he did not learn anything new his first two years of public school, but finds middle school more challenging. Both of my sons learn AT LEAST as much at home as they do at school, and neither thinks that the end of the school day is a signal to turn their brain off.

Perhaps I am an exception to the "rule" that the lack of a high school diploma = failure in life. I have never been excluded from anything I wanted to do because I did not have a diploma.

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Re: i droped out of high school 3 times!! [Re: zee_werp]
    #4392660 -

zee_werp said:
I didn't find that list too inspiring. Mostly 'Self made american businessman' and other american icons. That doesn't mean much, other than that they know how to be greedy and expand expand expand. Basically the list was way too american so being someone who doesn't really look up to america as a nation at all it doesn't do it for me.

Then theres the people on the list like Einstein who are pretty cool but then you look and see that while they may have dropped out of high school many of them went to university or some kind of technology school etc. And others were homeschooled.

Then theres others still, Christopher Columbus for example, who not only lived in a time when pretty much no one went to school anyway, but the things that they did weren't even that 'scholarly' to start off with.

I don't think that anyone with half a brain actually thinks that you have to complete high school to do something with your life. If a person is smart anyway they will be able to make things work somehow. And I know plenty of people who dropped out and took on appreniceships etc. The sad truth is that in this world we need to earn money, and that is a hell of a lot easier to do when you have qualifications. Although I did go to school in New Zealand where things were pretty chilled out, maybe its a different story in the states, I probably wouldn't have enjoyed school there.

So yeah I suppose my point is, dropping out isn't all bad, but if you were going to do it, you'd want to have the right reasons. If you already had alternative plans with what to do to help you earn money etc, then sure, go for it. Whereas if you didn't really have a plan for your life and werent too sure of what direction to take, then public schooling seems to be the 'safe' route, by which you will at least be able to 'fit in' to society etc. and get a 'normal' job.



so why then take your time to shit on my post?


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Wanting to be someone else is a waste of the person you are -Kurt Cobain
       



     
Hotter than the left sink handle.

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Re: i droped out of high school 3 times!! [Re: uriahchase]
    #4392771 -

So you dropped out of high school and then posted a list of highly esteemed individuals who managed a great deal of success despite being uneducated. So what are you doing to include yourself on the list?


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...the whole experience is (and is as) a profound piece of knowledge.  It is an indellible experience; it is forever known.  I have known myself in a way I doubt I would have ever occurred except as it did.

Smith, P.  Bull. Menninger Clinic (1959) 23:20-27; p. 27.

...most subjects find the experience valuable, some find it frightening, and many say that is it uniquely lovely.

Osmond, H.  Annals, NY Acad Science (1957) 66:418-434; p.436

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Re: i droped out of high school 3 times!! [Re: badchad]
    #4393034 -

badchad said:
So you dropped out of high school and then posted a list of highly esteemed individuals who managed a great deal of success despite being uneducated.  So what are you doing to include yourself on the list?


who said they were/are un-educated?

are you saying that just because they didn't complete high school..that they are un-educated?
i hope you are not that ignorant... i may have dropped out but, i assure you i am educated. i scored 1480 on my SAT, got my GED scored 99% on both math and science sections..i was featured in Who's Who Among American High School Student 2000-2001. i am now attending college and am 10 credits away from my AA. that's what im doing.

the fact that people assume im uneducated and will never amount to shit, just because im a drop out....really pisses me off.! :heart:


--------------------
Wanting to be someone else is a waste of the person you are -Kurt Cobain
       



     
Hotter than the left sink handle.

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Re: i droped out of high school 3 times!! [Re: uriahchase]
    #4393056 -

"Perhaps I am an exception to the "rule" that the lack of a high school diploma = failure in life."

You were home schooled..that means you were educated. The lack of a paper diploma means nothing...you are accepted by universities for class which means you have a high school education. Home schooling is usually better scholastically, while public schools give children more of a chance to develop socially. It is a trade off. My kids are public schooled because I don't have the time for full time proper home schooling. Once again here as well my children do not quit learning when the bell rings. I encourage them in all sorts of learning activities. My son, for instance, is an extremely skilled electric guitarist who practices 4 to 6 hours a day. His technical ability is fully formed.


--------------------
"A warrior is a hunter. He calculates everything. That's control. Once his calculations are over, he acts. He lets go. That's abandon. A warrior is not a leaf at the mercy of the wind. No one can push him; no one can make him do things against himself or against his better judgment. A warrior is tuned to survive, and he survives in the best of all possible fashions." ― Carlos Castaneda

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Re: i droped out of high school 3 times!! [Re: Huehuecoyotl]
    #4393073 -

Quote:
Home schooling is usually better scholastically, while public schools give children more of a chance to develop socially. It is a trade off.


My mother did not want me to trade off, so she formed a group for homelearners, and worked full-time as an educational consultant. While we did not spend 7 hours a day with our peers, we did have weekly organized "play days" at the Y or a park, as well as informal get-togethers with other families. I had much more time alone than any public school student does, but that suited me and (I believe) fostered my educational pursuits.

I think that we agree that a lack of education is a hindrance to having a successful life. Obviously that education can occur both inside and outside a classroom.

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Re: i droped out of high school 3 times!! [Re: Veritas]
    #4393151 -

I know about parents who do that...it is a good idea. I am not near social enough to organize something like that. I do agree that class is not the only place...or the most important place to learn. If you followed the education thread you will know that, as a medieval history freak, I learned to read Old English and Old Norse before ever attending college. I have read Beowulf and several of the Viking Sagas in their native tongue. I have spent my life collecting knowledge, and school taught me the least of it....but many people see school as their only education so it serves a purpose.


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"A warrior is a hunter. He calculates everything. That's control. Once his calculations are over, he acts. He lets go. That's abandon. A warrior is not a leaf at the mercy of the wind. No one can push him; no one can make him do things against himself or against his better judgment. A warrior is tuned to survive, and he survives in the best of all possible fashions." ― Carlos Castaneda

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Re: i droped out of high school 3 times!! [Re: uriahchase]
    #4393317 -

uriahchase said:
i hope you are not that ignorant... i may have dropped out but, i assure you i am educated. i scored 1480 on my SAT, got my GED scored 99% on both math and science sections..i was featured in Who's Who Among American High School Student 2000-2001. i am now attending college and am 10 credits away from my AA. that's what im doing.

the fact that people assume im uneducated and will never amount to shit, just because im a drop out....really pisses me off.! :heart:


Sorry, what I meant to say was "formally educated".  Great, so you have all these credentials and what it boils down to is this:

You got asked to donate money to be in "Who will pay us to make them feel special" book, the same as I, and about 40% of my graduating high school class. You scored above average on your SAT's and are going to college.  Neither of which will ever matter when you're resume' is reviewed.

CONGRATULATIONS!! You're mediocre. 

You're going to college like most high school students.  Who cares?  Wasn't the purpose of the thread to point of how useless formal education is?

You started a thread about how successful someone can be without a high school diploma OR formal education and thus far, you've managed to be average. You deserve a big hug.


--------------------
...the whole experience is (and is as) a profound piece of knowledge.  It is an indellible experience; it is forever known.  I have known myself in a way I doubt I would have ever occurred except as it did.

Smith, P.  Bull. Menninger Clinic (1959) 23:20-27; p. 27.

...most subjects find the experience valuable, some find it frightening, and many say that is it uniquely lovely.

Osmond, H.  Annals, NY Acad Science (1957) 66:418-434; p.436

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Re: i droped out of high school 3 times!! [Re: badchad]
    #4393429 -

I went to a private school for 6 years. Paid 1/5th of the tuition. Now I am going to a state college, for free... FREE, FREE COLLEGE, JESUS CHRIST. WHAT ELSE WOULD I ASK FOR? HARVARD FOR MY MASTER'S? HMMMMM, find the cure for cancer? aids? hmmm, i'm gonna be busting my balls with biology and chemistry books for the next 6 years... shit, at least its free


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http://www.myspace.com/4th25


"And I don't care if he was handcuffed
Then shot in his head
All I know is dead bodies
Can't fuck with me again"

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Re: i droped out of high school 3 times!! [Re: badchad]
    #4394045 -

badchad said:
uriahchase said:
i hope you are not that ignorant... i may have dropped out but, i assure you i am educated. i scored 1480 on my SAT, got my GED scored 99% on both math and science sections..i was featured in Who's Who Among American High School Student 2000-2001. i am now attending college and am 10 credits away from my AA. that's what im doing.

the fact that people assume im uneducated and will never amount to shit, just because im a drop out....really pisses me off.! :heart:


Sorry, what I meant to say was "formally educated".  Great, so you have all these credentials and what it boils down to is this:

You got asked to donate money to be in "Who will pay us to make them feel special" book, the same as I, and about 40% of my graduating high school class. You scored above average on your SAT's and are going to college.  Neither of which will ever matter when you're resume' is reviewed.

CONGRATULATIONS!! You're mediocre. 

You're going to college like most high school students.  Who cares?  Wasn't the purpose of the thread to point of how useless formal education is?

You started a thread about how successful someone can be without a high school diploma OR formal education and thus far, you've managed to be average. You deserve a big hug.


my point exactly! whether it be mediocre or above average(1480 much above average.) the point is that GED holders and folks with a Diploma aren't any "smarter" than the other, yet GED holders get treated with less respect. why? because we gave up? NO maybe I and others wanted to get out and get on with our lives instead of being spoon-fed over-the-counter curriculum everyday.
I am not mediocre. i dont follow suite. but you seem to be like all the rest who think they're superior because they finished high school!..and that makes you....mediocre IMO


--------------------
Wanting to be someone else is a waste of the person you are -Kurt Cobain
       



     
Hotter than the left sink handle.

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Re: i droped out of high school 3 times!! [Re: Madtowntripper]
    #4394244 -

Madtowntripper said:
Hmmm...How about a list of the people who dropped out of high school and went on to become trailer-trash, drug addicts, teen moms + dads, deadbeats, and jailbirds....

Bet its alot longer than that....


im sure a fair share of drug addicts, people who live in mobile homes, ex-convicts, single mothers, and deadbeats graduated and have a diploma too. so what's your point?


--------------------
Wanting to be someone else is a waste of the person you are -Kurt Cobain
       



     
Hotter than the left sink handle.

Edited by uriahchase (07/11/05 11:23 PM)

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