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Re: London Bombings Prove Iraq War Does Not Deter Terrorism [Re: Phred]
    #4386268 -

SUBJECT: Global War on Terrorism
USG has made reasonable progress in capturing or killing the top 55 Iraqis


What did these Iraqis have to do with terrorism?

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Re: London Bombings Prove Iraq War Does Not Deter Terrorism [Re: newuser1492]
    #4386301 -

cb9fl said:
This bombing proves nothing.

It is possible that the war in Iraq has reduced the number of terrorist activities that would have happened if there were no war.


^^^^I was just about to say this. I don't believe that Iraq has decreased terrorism (in fact it's probably responsible for the recruitment of many, many more terrorists) , but you can't say that another bombing is proof that "Operation Iraqi Liberation" hasn't worked.

It's the same thing as the drug war. If your town is flooded with drugs, you can't use that as proof that the drug war doesn't work. The drug warriors will always say that there would be more drugs (as if that's a bad thing) and more crack addicted kids if there were no war.







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Mp3 of the month: Wild Things- Another Colored Ink Drawing (A.C.I.D.)


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Re: London Bombings Prove Iraq War Does Not Deter Terrorism [Re: Seuss]
    #4386399 -

Seuss said:
> Who are the bigger terrorists?

Pretty simply answer, those that target civilians intentionally. You seem to want to blame the US for the civilian deaths in Iraq, but the blame for those deaths is the fault of the extremists (terrorists, saddam, etc) that brought the US to Iraq in the first place. How many civilians has the US killed in Peru, or Iceland, or France, or China, or almost any other country you name... not too many.


Anyone who looks suspicious is killed, either via a bomb or a bullet. What's the Army's philosophy? "Shoot first, ask questions later"?

It's very easy to dismiss casualties when for the war when you've never experienced it. Body counts don't signify progression.

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Re: London Bombings Prove Iraq War Does Not Deter Terrorism [Re: bukkake]
    #4386729 -

I say this, the Bombing proves shows things: That the war in Iraq has not deterred terrorism, however these people were going to attack civilians regardless. The war on terrorism did not end in Afghanistan, and it is not over. Iraq is not the reason London was attacked, it has been a target for years. You can say that Iraq was not a good move in fighting terror, but it is also pretty apparent that the terrorist threat was not manufactured to drag us into war, that it is and has been very real. I don't think you can blame attacks on the Iraq war as they have been trying since 9/11 and before.


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1. "After an hour I wasn't feeling anything so I decided to take another..."
2. "We were feeling pretty good so we decided to smoke a few bowls..."
3. "I had to be real quiet because my parents were asleep upstairs..."

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Re: London Bombings Prove Iraq War Does Not Deter Terrorism [Re: Seuss]
    #4386832 -

Seuss said:
You seem to want to blame the US for the civilian deaths in Iraq, but the blame for those deaths is the fault of the extremists (terrorists, saddam, etc) that brought the US to Iraq in the first place.


How is Iraq tied to terrorists or 9/11?
You call Saddam an "extremist", yet Bush is no different.

Quote:
How many civilians has the US killed in Peru, or Iceland, or France, or China, or almost any other country you name... not too many.


That's because there's not tons of oil to be had in those countries, obviously.


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:heartpump: { { { ṧ◎ηḯ¢ αʟ¢ℌ℮мƴ } } } :heartpump:

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Re: London Bombings Prove Iraq War Does Not Deter Terrorism [Re: Adamist]
    #4388019 -

Cities in Turkey, Saudi Arabia and India were bombed a number of times by Muslim extremists in the last couple years, but none of them are helping the US led coalition in Iraq. Many of the insurgents in Iraq even come from Saudi Arabia, yet Muslim terrorists still bomb Saudi Arabian cities, this proves Iraq has nothing to do with the recent bombings in London.


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Bush bashers beware http://graypantherssf.igc.org/guantanamo.html

http://www.worldnetdaily.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=46501


Edited by Los_Pepes (07/09/05 11:04 PM)

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Re: London Bombings Prove Iraq War Does Not Deter Terrorism [Re: Los_Pepes]
    #4388027 -

From:
The Types of Jihad
http://www.ummah.net.pk/harkat/jihad/t-jihad.htm
(site is offline, but here's the google-cache of the article)
There are two types of Jihad against the Kuffar

1- Offensive Jihad
2- Defensive Jihad

1- Offensive Jihad is when the Muslims launch an offensive attack. If this attack is on the Kuffar who have previously received the message of Islam, then to call them towards Islam before commencement of the attack is considered preferable.

However, if the message of Islam has not reached them, then the Kuffar will be invited towards Islam. If they reject this true faith, then they will have to pay Jizyah (Kufr tax). If they refuse to submit to the payment of Jizyah then the Muslims are to fight against them. With this type of Jihad the Kuffar who plot against the Muslims are repelled and their hearts are filled with fear, so that they do not succeed in their plans.

The offensive Jihad is Fardh Kifayah, the purpose of which is to ensure the Kuffar remain terrorised and away from mischief, thereby, allowing the message of Islam to be conveyed without any obstructions.

If one group of Muslims fulfil this obligation then it will be sufficient on behalf of all Muslims, but if there are no Muslims fulfilling this obligation then everyone is considered sinful.

It is stated in Fatawa Shami: It is required of the Imam (leader) of the Muslims to dispatch the army routinely once or twice a year towards the Kufr countries. It is also the duty of the Muslim public to assist the Imam in this noble cause. If the Imam does not send an army, then he will considered sinful.

The majority of Jihad undertaken at the time of our Prophet Muhammad (S.A.W.) was within the category of offensive Jihad.

The Quran has called upon the Muslims to undertake the offensive Jihad and when this obligation is satisfactorily fulfilled there would be no apparent need for the defensive Jihad.

When Muslims neglect this important obligation then they are subjected to the defensive Jihad and this has become, with regret, widely common in our time.
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From:
www.islam-qa.com
http://www.islam-qa.com/index.php?ln=eng&ds=qa&lv=browse&QR=5441&dgn=3
Question #5441: Was Islam spread by the sword?

Question:
Some enemies of the religion claim that Islam was spread by the sword. What is your response to that?

Answer:
Praise be to Allaah.
Islam was spread by proof and evidence, in the case of those who listened to the message and responded to it. And it was spread by strength and the sword in the case of those who stubbornly resisted, until they had no choice and had to submit to the new reality.

And Allaah is the source of strength. May Allaah bless our Prophet Muhammad and his family and companions, and grant them peace.

Fataawaa al-Lajnah al-Daa'imah, 12/14
(www.islam-qa.com)



recent update on the same question:
Question #43087: Was Islam spread by the sword?
http://www.islam-qa.com/index.php?ln=eng&ds=qa&lv=browse&QR=43087&dgn=3

--------------------------
From:
Jihaad against the kuffar is of two types
http://www.islamicawakening.com/Sahar/Ji...202000%20.phtml
by Dr. Abdullah Azzaam:
Offensive Jihaad (where the enemy is attacked in his own territory).

Where the Kuffar are not gathering to fight the Muslims. The fighting becomes Fard Kifaya with the minimum requirement of appointing believers to guard borders, and the sending of an army at least once a year to terrorize the enemies of Allah. It is a duty of upon the Imam to assemble and send out an army unit into the land of war once or twice every year. Moreover, it is the responsibility of the Muslim population to assist him, and if he does not send an army he is in sin.

And the Ulama have mentioned that this type of jihaad is for maintaining the payment of Jizya. The scholars of the principles of religion have also said: "Jihaad is Da'wah with a force, and is obligatory to perform with all available capabilities, until there remains only Muslims or people who submit to Islam."

----------------------------------
http://muslim-quotes.netfirms.com/jihad.html


The answer to this is to keep killing all Muslim extremists/terrorists until they are all dead.


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Bush bashers beware http://graypantherssf.igc.org/guantanamo.html

http://www.worldnetdaily.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=46501


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Re: London Bombings Prove Iraq War Does Not Deter Terrorism [Re: Los_Pepes]
    #4388261 -

The answer to this is to keep killing all Muslim extremists/terrorists until they are all dead.

Are you saying that we should just nuke all Muslim lands, preventing the recruitment of new Jihadists?




Just curious question........

What would Jesus do?

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Re: London Bombings Prove Iraq War Does Not Deter Terrorism [Re: 1stimer]
    #4388874 -

I have now officially changed my mind and gone over to the other side. We are wrong to fight "George Bush's War". This latest attack proves that we can't defeat terrorism. I think it would be prudent to capitulate to the terrorists who killed those everyday working people and give into their every demand. And if they continue to attack and demand more, I say we give into those demands too.

We can't win this war. Why not just give them everything that they want? And if they want more later, just give them that too. If it means that I have to convert to being a Muslim and living in a theocracy, so be it. Bow down and praise Allah three times a day, that ain't so bad. Come on. This attack proves that we are losing this war. Who really gave a fuck about free will anyway. As for the fate of my children, I never really gave a fuck about them anyway.


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Tastes just like chicken

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Re: London Bombings Prove Iraq War Does Not Deter Terrorism [Re: JesusChrist]
    #4389305 -

We can't win this war.

First thing to grasp is it isn't a "war". And no, you will never stop 4 guys with explosives putting them on a train if they want to. The clever thing to do is not go round the world bombing and maiming and creating more terrorists. When Tim Mcveigh placed his bomb the response wasn't to launch air attacks on white males.

Quote:
As for the fate of my children, I never really gave a fuck about them anyway.



If you'd cared about your children perhaps you could have protested against Bush launching his crazy, corrupt and doomed adventure in Iraq.

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Re: London Bombings Prove Iraq War Does Not Deter Terrorism [Re: Divided_Sky]
    #4389318 -

Quote:
That the war in Iraq has not deterred terrorism


Why did you think it would? What did Iraq have to do with "terrorism"? The Joint Intelligence Service said invading Iraq would increase the likelihood of terrorist attacks not decrease them.

Quote:
Iraq is not the reason London was attacked, it has been a target for years



Who says?

So you think it's coincidence that the two european countries bombed were the two who supported Bush?

Quote:
but it is also pretty apparent that the terrorist threat was not manufactured to drag us into war, that it is and has been very real.


Can you think of a better way of stopping people in London placing bombs on a train than invading Iraq? Why not concentrate on finding the people who placed the bombs instead of occupying Iraq?

I don't think you can blame attacks on the Iraq war as they have been trying since 9/11 and before

No, I don't believe it's a coincidence that Spain and the UK were bombed. If it had been France and Germany then you might have a point.

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Re: London Bombings Prove Iraq War Does Not Deter Terrorism [Re: IsaacHunt]
    #4389330 -

I didn't read the thread, as I spend a bunch of my time focusing on these sorts of issues and am too tired to get into it all, but here's a good articel that explains the logic behind suicide attacks

http://amconmag.com/2005_07_18/article.html

peace and love


--------------------
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Are you a visual learner? Is it easier to SEE than READ how to grow? Order this video then.

My MUST read information on Salvia. I have been a student of Her since 2001.

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Re: London Bombings Prove Iraq War Does Not Deter Terrorism [Re: niteowl]
    #4389829 -

niteowl said:
The answer to this is to keep killing all Muslim extremists/terrorists until they are all dead.


Great idea. I have a new theory. It was all a trick, a rouse. The idea is to keep the terrorists distracted and to make them present themselves in a foreign land and to even attract new terrorists so that our boys in desert camo, flak jackets, M4s and fifty cals can kill them before they harm a civilian.

Quote:
What would Jesus do?


Jesus gave up on these assholes a long time ago. The question is not what Jesus would do, but instead how many chix w/ dix, horses and other barnyard animals will be sticking it up the assholes of the terrorists in Satan's world.

But that's really only if you believe that whole mythology thing.

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Re: London Bombings Prove Iraq War Does Not Deter Terrorism [Re: IsaacHunt]
    #4389861 -

IsaacHunt said:
Can you think of a better way of stopping people in London placing bombs on a train than invading Iraq? Why not concentrate on finding the people who placed the bombs instead of occupying Iraq?



For the most part, in the homeland civilian police agencies as well as the CIA are looking for cells. In Iraq, the US Armed Forces are waiting for some schmuck to make himself a combatant.
So you say we need to concentrate our forces.... but this confuses me because you must be asking an agency or organization to do something that it was not designed for... Simply put...
Are you suggesting that we use the military at home to take care of our policing needs? Or are you suggesting that our police need to see combat in Iraq?

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Re: London Bombings Prove Iraq War Does Not Deter Terrorism [Re: Seuss]
    #4390149 -

Seuss said:
How many civilians has the US killed in Peru, or Iceland, or France, or China, or almost any other country you name... not too many.


well, actually in the case of peru, one could easily claim that CIA support of Fujimori could be seen as a direct link between civilian casualties in Peruo and the US govt...


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Re: London Bombings Prove Iraq War Does Not Deter Terrorism [Re: Krishna]
    #4390666 -

Quote:
Iraq war did not create terrorists. Terrorist were being created not only in UK but whole of europe. Europe had become a breeding gound for terrorist. The Libral west had made Europe weak from Inside. For many years Islamist were openly preching hate against humanilty and the librals tolerated and encourage them. Truth be told my of the Islamic terrorists are wanted crimnals in thier Country. Thier Country wanted to extradite those crimnals to thier countries like morraco, jordon but the librals made the law imposible to deport these known terrorist. Many of them openly when to Afganistan and Pakistan to attend terrrorist training camp and europe did nothings. Europe has a stupid extradition law which make its attractve to terrorist to make Europe home. Most Islamist muslims who applied for political ayslum in europe are ticking time bombs. Europe was reaching a critical point after which Jihadis were going to turn thier gun on Europe. They preponded that plan after 9/11 and Iraq. Even without Iraq war, London would have been attacked.
Not only London, terror is very soon going to spread to various European cities with major muslim refuges/political asylum population.




http://www.faithfreedom.org/forum/viewtopic.php?t=10979


--------------------
Bush bashers beware http://graypantherssf.igc.org/guantanamo.html

http://www.worldnetdaily.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=46501


Edited by Los_Pepes (07/10/05 09:43 PM)

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Re: London Bombings Prove Iraq War Does Not Deter Terrorism [Re: Los_Pepes]
    #4390873 -

This will be the final showdow between the west and the Islamic world. So far we have been able to make the Islamic lands into pure shit and hell, I think we will be able to totaly conquer them. However, we will lose a lot of people in this war, but they will lose more, a lot more, they will stand in the blood of their children and neighbors, we will stand in their blood...


--------------------



http://www.myspace.com/4th25


"And I don't care if he was handcuffed
Then shot in his head
All I know is dead bodies
Can't fuck with me again"

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Re: London Bombings Prove Iraq War Does Not Deter Terrorism [Re: downforpot]
    #4433455 -

It seems as though the terrorists have chosen england as there new target.


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There is such emotion in the distortion.

Edited by 1stimer (10/06/05 04:10 PM)

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Re: London Bombings Prove Iraq War Does Not Deter Terrorism [Re: 1stimer]
    #4762996 -

The London bombings prove that we have to continue the war on terrorism.


--------------------
Bush bashers beware http://graypantherssf.igc.org/guantanamo.html

http://www.worldnetdaily.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=46501


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Re: London Bombings Prove Iraq War Does Not Deter Terrorism [Re: 1stimer]
    #4763111 -

whether the iraq war has deterred terrorism, increased it, or had no effect on it, is a complicated issue that cannot be resolved as simply as, "well, there has been terrorism since the war began, against one of our allies, therefore, X". one paragraph on the matter doesn't cut it. perhaps there would have been more terrorism had the war not been fought. this isn't proof at all. the words "proof" and "prove" get thrown arround so much in here it's absurd. do you *really* believe that there is *proof* of anything here?

support your arguments.

for the record, i would agree that the war has not made us or our allies any safer from terrorism.


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