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Re: Meditation "A How to Guide" [Re: MarkostheGnostic]
    #4377818 -

"My answer even today is to 'be in the world, but not of the world.' Now, I have need for a Lady (partner, consort, wife), but I am not a parent, nor have I ever desired to live the life of a family man,"

If I understand you correctly you see having children as a spiritual hinderance?

"I respect the fact that my Lady has raised a daughter to college-grad level, loves her completely, yet her daughter does not define her life and purpose on the planet."

What makes you think that anyone really does this...some do...but not most. You have confused me. What does having children have to do with any of what you discussed? If it does not why mention it?


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"A warrior is a hunter. He calculates everything. That's control. Once his calculations are over, he acts. He lets go. That's abandon. A warrior is not a leaf at the mercy of the wind. No one can push him; no one can make him do things against himself or against his better judgment. A warrior is tuned to survive, and he survives in the best of all possible fashions." ― Carlos Castaneda

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Re: Meditation "A How to Guide" [Re: redgreenvines]
    #4377868 -

After Thomas Aquinas had written his Summa Theologia which defined the Scholasticism of the Middle Ages, he was known to have said "It it all straw" [i.e., worthless]. Similarly, passages like your Nyingmapa site can all too easily be construed as 'just live the natural life.' I do not believe that such words are for those who have not had critical realizations yet, but for those who have!

There is an Eternal depth and expanse within me that I do not (unfortunately) experience in each moment to the degree that I want to. At the degree in question, my egotistic grasping for 'more experience' ceases to grasp for more experience - it is fulfilled and very very still. The Fullness of Being reigns supreme. I am It's servant. These contemplation techniques (particularly when energized and expanded by entheogens) serve to establish Holy Ground, a Transcendental frame of reference 'other than' the natural and mostly unconscious mundane frame of reference established by the ego grounded in the senses and rational mind.

Therefore, I must respectfully disagree with the writer of said passage. I have seen things...not necessarily starships aflame in the belt of Orion, but sufficiently Transcendental to spend the rest of my life trying to throw that switch permanently on.


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γνῶθι σαὐτόν - Gnothi Seauton - Know Thyself

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Re: Meditation "A How to Guide" [Re: MarkostheGnostic]
    #4378631 -

having read and studied a lot, common themes emerge.
having read and studied a lot, various conflicting specifics acrue.

to find a natural middle path, discard the conflict and cultivate the common themes.
the middle path, or natural way (the one you get to discover), is still quite a challenge,
but all the objectives and obstacles convene at this ongoing moment without resistance.

you could say that one common theme is dealing with resitance:

if you have read a lot, this may have a range from:
a) a simple releasing of body armor to
z) obsession with an ideal form of surrender.

somewhere in the middle, between the obvious and the dogmatic is the useful or middle way. this is not like fretting on the choice from a huge catalog of methods, it is a matter of picking up a reasonable tool - using it deftly, and getting on, naturally - without a fuss.


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:brainfart: _ :finger:

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Re: Meditation "A How to Guide" [Re: redgreenvines]
    #4379020 -

This is the easiest and most profound meditation.

Sit straight, but comfortably.
Keep gaze about four feet ahead.
Don't talk.
Don't do anything to the mind at all.
Let whatever arises go about its business.
Modify nothing.
15 minutes.
Then lie down for five minutes.

As one can see, only what arises is natural. Nothing added. No fillers. Experience is only your own.


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...or something






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Re: Meditation "A How to Guide" [Re: redgreenvines]
    #4379310 -

That was nicely worded :wink:
Your last paragraph does resonate with a difficulty that I used to experience. However, I now tend to practice different techniques that lead 'the mind into the Heart,' whether a Theravadin technique that I learned from a Thai Buddhist, or Ramana Maharishi's technique, or the Hesychasts, or Lama Govinda's teaching on OM MANI PADME HUM, or the Kabbalistic emphasis on Tiphereth.

It's kind of like burning incense in our home. We only burn Sandalwood incense, but we have a couple of Indian brands, a Japanese Sandalwood, 3 or 4 Tibetan types that contain Sandalwood (among other ingredients). Despite the "specifics" in formulation, we can discern the Sandalwood "theme" in each style.




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γνῶθι σαὐτόν - Gnothi Seauton - Know Thyself

Edited by MarkostheGnostic (07/07/05 11:11 AM)

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Re: Meditation "A How to Guide" [Re: Huehuecoyotl]
    #4383425 -

Sorry H., I must have skipped over this response of yours.
I simply never had the desire to become a parent. It never even occurred to me. When I visited my younger brother in Boston College, I had graduated from college, was a still a bearded long-hair, and his roommates looked like Fred McMurray in 'My Three Sons,' close-cropped hair, beardless, smoking a tobacco pipe. The most 'Fred-looking' one said to me "You're more like a brother than a father." Now, interestingly enough, I had been investigating monastic life, though not interested in becoming a priest (Father) but a simple monk (Brother). The archetype of 'brother' can take different forms. I'm 40 years older than the adolescents I work with, but the relationship with males is much more like they are relating to an older brother. Rarely is it paternalistic, which is usually good because of serious resentments against bad and abandoning fathers.

Temperamentally, it is good for me that I did not assume parenthood. I am not fond of babies, do not fawn over them as expected by new mommies, and do not take an interest in kids until they can verbally express their life experience and ask questions. Thus, I am better suited to be the counselor-educator I am than a full-spectrum parental caregiver from birth onward. My ex wife had a tubal ligation 4 years into the marriage without consulting with me. It was the nature of that bad marriage which suffered five years beyond that point and died. By that point I was 39 years old with no marriage partner in sight. Everything occurs with purpose (some would say 'for a reason'). When I come home from work at a middle school with nothing but the sound of a ticking grandfather clock, my soul can rejoice in the silence. The activity in a home with kids would drive me crazy, I couldn't take it. But again, that's just me - I do not proscribe parenthood for anyone who desires it. It is terrible for children whose parent's are just unconscious bio-automatons who obey a biological imperative to reproduce. Loveless parents produce very damamged children and society suffers for it.

Quite simply, family life requires an incredible expansion of concerns in a worldly sense. Number one is the responsibility for the well-being of children which means to me that prolonged experimentation with states of mind, quietism, retreat from the world cannot be practiced. Concern for additional money translates into much more work-time. I for one need a lot of space, emptiness between activities, and from what I see of my peers with kids, their lives are a veritable blur of motion from the birth til college.

I know people who never understood love, unconditional love, until they became parents. It changed their lives spiritually in that respect alone. On the other hand, I also know people who idolatize their children. The kids become projections of the parents' egos, which they in turn worship in narcissistic fashion. One of our female friends is very concerned with appearances so the kids are responsible for making her look good - or not. One can grow spiritually or become even more removed from spiritual life while parenting, but parenting in itself is not the source of spiritual motivation. It just becomes a vehicle for spiritual manifestation, or another vehicle for selfishness.


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γνῶθι σαὐτόν - Gnothi Seauton - Know Thyself

Edited by MarkostheGnostic (07/08/05 10:25 AM)

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Re: Meditation "A How to Guide" [Re: MarkostheGnostic]
    #4383439 -

Boy do I resonate with your post Mark. :thumbup: I am the same way about kids. The fact that I have  4 and 12  year old boys in my life right now is a testiment to how very much in Love I am with my partner.

I acknowledge that life wants me to learn about little humans right now, but it is certainly not my preference. :mushroom2: :grin:


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"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC

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Re: Meditation "A How to Guide" [Re: MarkostheGnostic]
    #4383441 -

from RUMI

The breeze at dawn has secrets to tell you.
Don't go back to sleep.

You must ask for what you really want.
Don't go back to sleep.

People are going back and forth across the doorsill
where the two worlds touch.

The door is round and open.
Don't go back to sleep.


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:brainfart: _ :finger:

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Re: Meditation "A How to Guide" [Re: Icelander]
    #4383472 -

Hey...if she's a package deal, what are you gonna do? It is 'expansive' of your Heart to enter into such a situation. I went out with a 39 year old woman (who looked like Little Annie Fanny from the old Playboy magazines, I swear!) when I was 25. She had a 20 year old son (who lived with his father) and 3 teenage girls (15, 17, 18) who lived with their mom. The middle daughter was looking too good as I remember, and had just given up her virginity. I was on my way to grad school out of state anyway, but that situation was too much to handle. The woman I was with even looked into having her tubal ligation reversed in order to have a 5th child with me. I ended up leaving her and cheating with the wicked woman who was to become that ex wife named above. Out of the frying pan and into the fire as it turned out. Hot is better than burned.

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Re: Meditation "A How to Guide" [Re: redgreenvines]
    #4385484 -

I have to get me some of dat Rumi 'cause doze words are over-prooof!

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Re: Meditation "A How to Guide" [Re: MarkostheGnostic]
    #4386095 -

I have a question. I?m seriously into exploring some simple meditation techniques and incorporating them into my daily life. I don?t seem to have any problem with focusing on my breathing and at the same time observing my thoughts and letting them die out when ever they appear.

What I am observing is that a lot of times when my thoughts start to subdue they are replaced by very detailed images, like visions or waking dreams. What is bugging me is that I have very little control over the nature of these images, which are for the most part emotionally very disturbing. In a way, I feel like my mind is afraid of the vacuum and is trying to get me emotionally involved and to start the thought process again in any way it can.

How can I deal with these images? Should I observe them like I would observe my normal thought processes and just let them pass over me?

Thanks!


--------------------

"Who are you who live in all these many forms? You're death that captures all. You too are the source of all that's gonna be born. You're glory, mercy, peace, truth. You give calm a spirit, understanding, courage, the contented heart."

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Re: Meditation "A How to Guide" [Re: redtailedhawk]
    #4386132 -

redtailedhawk;

you are describing the insight process, after building tranquility as a foundation insight commences in virtually all forms of meditation, this is the looking in. the pot has been stirred and contents are arising.

these deeper sourced images are no less and no more than the superficial thoughts you recognized earlier, and you can treat them in the same light way; but while some degree of interest is warranted, it is detatched intimacy that is practiced.

(some make a big deal of the arizing images - others consider them like the temptation of saint anthony, a big deal like mara distracting the buddha etc. maybe significant with chenrezee appearing and letting you pass... but they are unearthed fragments -part of the fabric of mind, arizing and passing away naturally unless you get involved - it is hard to stay awake to this but you will benefit from continuing with a light touch.)

you are looking within your own matrix, into your history and at the natural linkages in your mind. be gentle and compassionate with yourself here, imparting the shape that lets go yet engenders intimacy. imparting this shape is the meditative pose taken to the next level.


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:brainfart: _ :finger:

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Re: Meditation "A How to Guide" [Re: redtailedhawk]
    #4386398 -

Redgreenvines' advice is sound, but I believe applies more to those who are radical in the process of transcending all psychic contents. It is the same attitude that is cultivated toward physical objects. However, a beginning meditator, like a beginning 'tripper,' may need to address the 'psychic' domain that exists between the physical and the spiritual domains.

When turning on an adult friend a few years ago, I did not address this. I wanted to lie down and immerse myself in the visions, having long ago passed all those 'fierce [psychodynamic] lions that guard the inner temple.' My friend had run right into his unresolved issues of his mother trying to drown him in the bathtub as a small boy! I didn't realize that he was struggling so much because he had developed all this posturing and persona - he had become a lifeguard in adult life - a direct consequence of this traumatic event, and developed a 'helping' persona! He needed psychotherapy at that moment, even though he was a friend and I was not his therapist. Nevertheless, I screwed up and he has not wanted to revisit the entheogenic experience.

By way of parallel, meditators have traditionally had a mentor/guru/master to help them with this Intermediary Domain [Ken Wilber's term]. It is no different than having a bleeding flesh wound which needs to be dressed before sitting down to meditate. Pain needs to be abated and healing needs to commence before attepting to transcend those domains. Otherwise it is like attempting to high jump while wearing a scuba diving weight belt.

I recommend keeping a journal of these inner visions with their attending emotions. You can learn a great deal about yourself psychologically from the process of writing (as in dream journal) since the process bridges the unconscious and consciousness, illuminating the former and expanding the latter. Do not ignore pain, psychological discomfort included. Pain is a warning that something needs to be addressed. Be patient with yourself. Twelve Step programs and classic Yoga (from which Step programs are derived in some measure) all require two initial steps of 'clearing the ground' [of the psyche] before proceeding with the more spiritually oriented steps.


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γνῶθι σαὐτόν - Gnothi Seauton - Know Thyself

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Re: Meditation "A How to Guide" [Re: MarkostheGnostic]
    #4386590 -

Quote:
applies more to those who are radical in the process of transcending all psychic contents


not really, just about continuing wth the insight process.

first there is tranquility, things get smoother, and the practice is established.

then the stirred pot emits phenomena.

this is not like super mario videogames whre you need to get to other levels to earn points, lives or anything like that, though it appears much more enthralling (sometimes).

also I am not talking about entheogen based phenomena, though it could apply for a meditator to entheogen on occasion.

insight meditation is usually considered dryer than chakkra meditation. but when the phenomena begin, it is the same arena.
the practice proceeds with acceptance and non-judgement as before.

my description involves no superstition or references to authorities. probably that is all that is different.

I bring in Rumi from time to time because very few credit him as a true master, it is so non-elitist, so unexpected to find such a light from that source.


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:brainfart: _ :finger:

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Re: Meditation "A How to Guide" [Re: redgreenvines]
    #4386784 -

Rumi was a great poet but more than a poet of course.

Being partial to 'interesting' psychic phenomena, I am attracted to Hindu siddhis, Kundalini manifestations and gtum-mo [Inner Fire] phenomenon of Tibetan Buddhist Yoga. Traditions like Zen or a Thai tradition that I know of can take or leave such things (nimitta), but the attitude is usually, 'don't worry, they'll go away,' instead of 'Acha!, a good sign that siddhis are developing - now be careful.'

I have a penchant for categorizing things, and psychological states (irrational, rational and transrational) fall under this tendency. The Vajrayana does the most precise job of this in their psychologies, and I appreciate all that. However, there is the mind-set to simply 'be done with all the phenomena' and though I am not attributing a point system or even a hierarchy, what I am saying is that people need to take care of their mental health while adopting a spiritual path. Sometimes physical and mental health break down and one no longer has a seeker or aspirant, but instead one ends up with a very sick individual.

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Re: Meditation "A How to Guide" [Re: MarkostheGnostic]
    #4386804 -

Befriend the Archons..


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My Unitarian Jihad Name is: The Shotgun of Sweet Reason

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General Interest > Philosophy, Sociology & Psychology
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