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 Ravus
Not an EggshellWalker
Registered: 07/18/03
Posts: 7,991
Loc: Cave of the Patriarchs
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 Salvia vs. Real World 
#4316714 - 06/20/05 11:02 AM (18 years, 9 months ago) |
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A few minutes ago I went outside to test out some of the products that IAmShaman sent me. I lit up a bowl of salu henbane with sacred lotus as the base, and after I was pleasantly relaxed, I decided to try smoking a bowl of their free salvia 6x (for orders over $30.00, they send you a gift.)
So there I was, in a lawnchair, in my backyard, looking at some plants as I took a few deep hits of this semi-harsh plant leaf extract. As I was sitting there, I felt an odd sensation start to take over my body, making it feel warm and alien as if it wasn't my own. Then the plants in front of me started to communicate to me, as if I was now in their world, and as I thought to myself over these odd happenings, I was thinking, "So this is the sensation of what it's like to be in Her world." Yet who is this Her? Was it some concept planted in my mind by the Shroomery, or does the plant activate some part of the brain that has a reminder of a feminine entity? Or even wilder yet, is there actually some sort of goddess out there tending to all the plants?
The plants in front of me danced in the wind, as if some sort of initiation ceremony and they were testing me. The middle one was evidently in charge though, as he swayed back and forth like a confident bouncer, deciding whether to let me in. I relaxed, and he agreed that I was fit for this experience. I thought to myself, "I don't see how people freak out over this salvia world. All you need to do is relax." And that holds true for all drugs.
Then I came down, still wondering whether this experience was entirely just the salvinorin chemicals in my brain. From a scientific viewpoint, it was, yet the plants communicated to me as if they really had an ego. If a few chemicals in some plant leaf can make us believe that other plants are, to put it bluntly, human, then how do we test the reality of our current situation out? We justify the salvia experience by pointing out the way the brain works in response to salvinorin, but isn't all perception of other people simply chemicals responding in the brain also? How do we differentiate a "false" delusional drug experience from our "true" reality?
For it's hard to verify a system using only that system. In the salvia world, you can't verify its truth or not, because the only moment you're experiencing is in the salvia world. Likewise, in the real world, all we know is the real world. We can't come down from the real world and view it any differently, so how do we know its truth?
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So long as you are praised think only that you are not yet on your own path but on that of another.
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 sox24
member
Registered: 06/17/03
Posts: 905
Last seen: 16 years, 9 months
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Re: Salvia vs. Real World [Re: Ravus]
#4317112 - 06/20/05 01:08 PM (18 years, 9 months ago) |
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You are looking for the truth
You just spoke
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Gomp
隆(Bound to路(O))be free!
Registered: 09/11/04
Posts: 10,888
Loc: I re路side [primarily] in...
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 Re: Salvia vs. Real World [Re: Ravus]
#4317124 - 06/20/05 01:13 PM (18 years, 9 months ago) |
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""I don't see how people freak out over this salvia world. All you need to do is relax." And that holds true for all drugs.""
nice! :P
BTW: I love where you are 'heading' with this.. 
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Disclaimer!?
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redgreenvines
irregular verb
Registered: 04/08/04
Posts: 38,169
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Re: Salvia vs. Real World [Re: Ravus]
#4317364 - 06/20/05 02:34 PM (18 years, 9 months ago) |
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IMO it is not a scientific viewpoint to declare just chemicals in the brain do this.
that would be equivalent to declaring that a show at the cirque de soleil is just the price of admission.
any ego experienced is a mirror view (or mine overflowing)
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Swami
Eggshell Walker
Registered: 01/18/00
Posts: 15,413
Loc: In the hen house
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IMO it is not a scientific viewpoint to declare just chemicals in the brain do this.
that would be equivalent to declaring that a show at the cirque de soleil is just the price of admission.
What a "scientifically" invalid comparison.
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The proof is in the pudding.
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Icelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery
Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 95,368
Loc: underbelly
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Keep exploring! There are no final answers and there is always more to everything. Salvia is one of my favorites. It was my first experience with what some call total hallucination. This familiar world was gone completely. Each time is somewhat different. It seems as complex and complete as this reality.  
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"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.
" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.
With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC
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Ravus
Not an EggshellWalker
Registered: 07/18/03
Posts: 7,991
Loc: Cave of the Patriarchs
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Re: Salvia vs. Real World [Re: Icelander]
#4317653 - 06/20/05 04:09 PM (18 years, 9 months ago) |
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Quote:
It seems as complex and complete as this reality.
That's exactly it. The altering of reality is so sudden and severe that, to a normal person, we might be classified as temporarily delusional, but to the subjective experience it's as if one complete reality has been replaced by another.
Yet this would make sense, if reality is created entirely within our mind. We are creating reality, so mix in another aspect to the blender and it's integreted as finely as all the previous ones.
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So long as you are praised think only that you are not yet on your own path but on that of another.
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Gomp
隆(Bound to路(O))be free!
Registered: 09/11/04
Posts: 10,888
Loc: I re路side [primarily] in...
Last seen: 1 year, 1 month
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 Re: Salvia vs. Real World [Re: Ravus]
#4317800 - 06/20/05 04:44 PM (18 years, 9 months ago) |
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"... reality is, the reality of realities."
-Unknown :P
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Plok
Life is fractal
Registered: 09/08/04
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Re: Salvia vs. Real World [Re: Gomp]
#4317870 - 06/20/05 04:58 PM (18 years, 9 months ago) |
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This is why I contend, despite how crazy people think I am, that reality is subjective.
This is very hard to explain, but the more you think about it the more it makes sense. Reality is created for whoever is there to perceive it by the perceiver's consciousness/brain/mind/spirit.
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Just say NO to the War on Drugs.
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redgreenvines
irregular verb
Registered: 04/08/04
Posts: 38,169
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Re: Salvia vs. Real World [Re: Swami]
#4318213 - 06/20/05 06:33 PM (18 years, 9 months ago) |
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Quote:
Swami said:
IMO it is not a scientific viewpoint to declare just chemicals in the brain do this.
that would be equivalent to declaring that a show at the cirque de soleil is just the price of admission.
What a "scientifically" invalid comparison.
ok that would be equivalent to saying buying a computer is the same as inventing one. the buying just enables an effect - the effect is innate but is not explained in the least by the enabling financial transaction.
the chemical trigger is not the effect at all, a minor but critical gateway facilitator. (for what - that is what needs to be examined, finding the keyhole we have hardly unlocked the door or entered the threashold of this area of study)
science is more than a few scientific terms. indeed the terms themselves could be expendable if people understood the matter of which they were talking - animated 3-d pictures would be much better.
but flashing some acceptible terms in an ignorant way is still not science. I prefer to get to the meat of the matter than collect discarded technical crusts.
anyway this is about complex systems working together, which is far more than just a few words referencing a few chemicals and a few binding sites.
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Icelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery
Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 95,368
Loc: underbelly
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Re: Salvia vs. Real World [Re: Ravus]
#4318214 - 06/20/05 06:34 PM (18 years, 9 months ago) |
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Well that's one good question. Are we creating another "reality" within our mind, or has the plant given access to another reality, not within the mind, but seperate and whole unto itself?
I have seen a membrane between the two realities. From right to left the salvia world would hit the membrane and then turn into our reality. It was really quite remarkable.
And I have had the salvia reality, turn into a complete scene in this world, but I was in the house I grew up in and it felt like I was in my body of 17 years old or so. I am 52. It seemed as completely real as what I see at my keyboard right now.
This is a strange plant my friends. There are seemingly endless visions I have had while using this. Hard to describe some of it. I have seen/felt the watcher behind my ego. And much more.
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"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.
" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.
With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC
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Ravus
Not an EggshellWalker
Registered: 07/18/03
Posts: 7,991
Loc: Cave of the Patriarchs
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Re: Salvia vs. Real World [Re: Icelander]
#4318444 - 06/20/05 07:50 PM (18 years, 9 months ago) |
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The right setting seems to be key to a spiritual salvia experience. In my experience, I need to be in a place where I can sit back and fully relax. It's also best outside with nature and plants around, as, moreso than other drug, the salvia world seems to create a connection with nature. Almost every time I smoke salvia and watch plants swaying in the wind, I feel as if they're communicating with me and telling me something. Then I come down, and when I look at them, they're just normal plants again.
I have yet to actually travel back in time or cross worldly membranes on salvia, though. Perhaps I should invest in some 20x to help facilitate that.
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So long as you are praised think only that you are not yet on your own path but on that of another.
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redgreenvines
irregular verb
Registered: 04/08/04
Posts: 38,169
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Re: Salvia vs. Real World [Re: Ravus]
#4318448 - 06/20/05 07:52 PM (18 years, 9 months ago) |
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I am most active here in S&P
but the term spiritual still irks me.
I agree relaxing is key.
watching is key.
key is key.
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Icelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery
Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 95,368
Loc: underbelly
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Re: Salvia vs. Real World [Re: Ravus]
#4318509 - 06/20/05 08:16 PM (18 years, 9 months ago) |
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I need to experience this plant outdoors more. I have a specially designed room but it is still just a room. Shrooms are what I usually do outside, and up in the mountains, or in our high desert area here. We are blessed with both.
The interesting thing about my trip "back in time", was that I felt I had asked a question and was getting an answer. Like a dream can often have a message for us. I knew that I didn't know what that question was, with my conscious mind, so I just stood there staring like a jerk. Later, I came to the conclusion that I was supposed to explore my house, and move around. I just wasn't ready for that. One needs experience and training and intent. Salvia has been kind to me, considering how poorly I use her. My intentions are good though and I think that helps.
By the way I am able to accomplish this on 5x with one or two hits. I can even get there on regular leaf if the quality is good. The more you use it the easier it gets in my experience. This plant has great potential for exploring, "reality". It's one of the most powerful psychedelics I have ever come across in all of my years of exploring.
Maybe with more practice you can bring back some of your communication with plants. You might have to become quite lucid to do it. I would love to hear more. 
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"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.
" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.
With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC
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crunchytoast
oppositional
Registered: 04/07/05
Posts: 1,133
Loc: aporia
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Re: Salvia vs. Real World [Re: Ravus]
#4318996 - 06/20/05 10:36 PM (18 years, 9 months ago) |
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great post
if you take this thought further, salvia shows you the consciousness of the universe, the consciousness of inanimate matter, the consciousness of plants for example, the mind of god.
and i agree with you that human beings are the ego (another thread).
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"consensus on the nature of equilibrium is usually established by periodic conflict." -henry kissinger
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KingOftheThing
the cool fool
Registered: 11/17/02
Posts: 27,397
Loc: USA
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Re: Salvia vs. Real World [Re: Ravus]
#4319034 - 06/20/05 10:47 PM (18 years, 9 months ago) |
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oohhhh, see i thought salvia vs. the real world was some new wacky show on MTV where 7 strangers are locked in a room with only a bong and a garbage bag of 10x salvia extract...hillarity ensues
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Ravus
Not an EggshellWalker
Registered: 07/18/03
Posts: 7,991
Loc: Cave of the Patriarchs
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I'm glad I don't have MTV anymore. Sometimes staying out of touch with shitty pop shows is a good thing.
Or perhaps all of the time.
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So long as you are praised think only that you are not yet on your own path but on that of another.
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Rudra
Enlightened
Registered: 05/31/05
Posts: 154
Loc: Potala
Last seen: 18 years, 9 months
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Re: Salvia vs. Real World [Re: Ravus]
#4319154 - 06/20/05 11:12 PM (18 years, 9 months ago) |
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Disassociatives are simply penetrating hyper-dimensional membranes.
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Ravus
Not an EggshellWalker
Registered: 07/18/03
Posts: 7,991
Loc: Cave of the Patriarchs
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Re: Salvia vs. Real World [Re: Rudra]
#4319161 - 06/20/05 11:14 PM (18 years, 9 months ago) |
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If that's so, why doesn't salvia just burn a hole in reality, fall through the hyperdimensional membrane and pass out of our universe?
Or does it have to come in contact with our consciousness to be activated?
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So long as you are praised think only that you are not yet on your own path but on that of another.
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headset
Stranger
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Re: Salvia vs. Real World [Re: Ravus]
#4319187 - 06/20/05 11:20 PM (18 years, 9 months ago) |
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I believe the hyperdimensions take place in the same place, and the beings which exist within said dimension have only the perceptive mechanisms to experience that dimension, with exception to certain entities who are able to see into ours.
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