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What has Salvia taught you?
    #1310479 -

I want to let go but don't know if I can.

Salvia's message to me:

The Salvia entity seems to be trying to teach me a different mode of existence, one where we do not exist at any particular point in spacetime. However, I always end up fighting this and trying to prove that I do exist. I might try to be a thought, a "me" in a different reality, but more often I become a point on an inanimate object. After this I will telepathically trasmit something like, "Look, see, I exist here. I'm a table leg".

Right as I'm settling in and feeling secure with my existence as a table leg, the entity will do something perverse as if to convey, "Oh, that's you huh? Really? Well look now". At this point the entity will warp, distort, and tear down that reality only to reveal a new one where i don't have a point of existence. This is the worst feeling I've ever experienced. This cycle repeats itself until I return to my body. It is like dying over and over. After returning I feel rooted in a completely false self-constructed reality.


Miscellaneous points

1. All of my trips share a common theme and each subsequent breakthrough experience seems to increase in intensity.

2. Reality hopping, OOBE, astral projection...it's all there.

3. It seems while going up and coming down I sometimes get caught in a "broken record" loop. A thought or word will catch in my mind and repeat over and over.

Conclusion

I'm interested in the thoughts and opinions of experienced Salvia users. I'm currently at a point where I'm a little scared to continue. I was using yesterday and last night while sleeping I awoke terrified(around 6 times) into a "Salvia reality". It was real, as real as it gets, and felt like it could melt away at any second...think I'm going to lay off for a while.



------Quotes from Erowid reports I can identify with------

"It is a whole new mode of existence. I had always believed that radical modes of consciousness existed because it is my philosophy that infinite realities exist in infinitely diverse ways, but I never thought I could experience them directly." Random Access to Other Dimensions by Nate

"I got somewhat panicky because the ego loss here was startling..I was in a space where 'I' did not exist.. where I was a character in a story.. an idea but not a reality..and I was not alone in this carnivalesque space. It was as if my existence was a mischievous prank." Which of These Arms is Mine? by Cash

In the followng excerpt a user describes the hypnagogic phase of returning to one's body...to this reality.

"The reunion with myself was breathtaking.. as if I had woken from a dream that I had called life.. and here I was finally the dream maker and not the dream." Which of These Arms is Mine? by Cash

"I had not expected fear, but terror came with her and tho I sought a dying moment, she showed me a dying eternity and tho I sought to bring wisdom into the real, she tore the real from me and I was no more, and in unbeing, I lost my fear" Green Gnosis by Lizard




--------------------
An optimist is never pleasantly surprised.

Edited by rhizo (02/16/03 03:06 AM)

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Re: What has Salvia taught you? [Re: rhizo]
    #1310606 -

Not sure Salvia has taught me anything, but refreshed some things I thought I already knew, or made them clearer.

One main thing I get from Salvia is the disalussion of this perception of 'reality' and shows how thin the veil really is.. allowing me to glimpse into higher states of being, albeit very breifly. Each salvia experience I have felt 'lifted' to a slightly higher state of consciousness, where I am able to perceive, experience and feel the connection between all living things.
Salvia has given me a 'reality shock' many times, by showing that this 3d world we live in is full of illusions and darkness and subconscious things all over the place, that there is more than meets the eye to our world. That our thoughts do create our reality and there are many humorous paradoxes everywhere, all the time. It has shown me this, and much more.


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Re: What has Salvia taught you? [Re: rhizo]
    #1310818 -

Salvia is the most strangest....herb I have ever smoked. Definitely one of the oddest drugs in my book of course...Every time I did it, during the high, or the peak, I would get this mentality in my head that as if there were this thing where as if there were a sort of a triangular subspace field where I was out of place in whenever I smoked it...I kept thinking if I have to keep my head straight to the left or right while thinking that if I dont, I get this weird out of place and out of touch sense with the universe, all based on one simple little physical adjustment, like as if there were a force slightly pushing me towards the left but not physically, and I'd have some sort of psychological tug-of-war with reality as it falls apart temporarily, and concieve of the truly unconcievable, to the tiniest most infinitesimal detail, but with no profound logic whatsoever....yet disturbing at the same time....


--------------------
Coffee should be black as hell, strong as death, and sweet as love.

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Re: What has Salvia taught you? [Re: rhizo]
    #1310823 -

OHH And by the way....if you want a REEEEEEEEEALLY cool Salvia trip....smoke it when you're on a good heavy dose of DXM =)


--------------------
Coffee should be black as hell, strong as death, and sweet as love.

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Re: What has Salvia taught you? [Re: rhizo]
    #1311087 -

I would have to say that Salvia has taught me a lot and shown me many levels of conciousness that are otherwise hidden. The most profound experiences would have to be where I "wake" up in someone else's life!! Sometimes I will be in another body, in another place, complete with a whole new set of memories and thoughts! I won't even remember that "I" ever existed, or that this reality was created by a plant. Thats about the closest I've ever been to total ego loss or an OBE ( How can you have an ego if you forget that you ever existed! ) Then as soon as it starts, WHAM!, I'm back in my house and everythings fine, like it was all just a dream.  :wink:  Sometimes it can be pretty interesting stuff. Very dreamlike... 


--------------------
"The only unchangeable certainty is that nothing is certain and everything is changeable."

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Re: What has Salvia taught you? [Re: rhizo]
    #1311121 -

You're very lucky I can smoke a bag of Salvia with no effects - frustrating really!


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Re: What has Salvia taught you? [Re: Jackal]
    #1311157 -

Salvia taught me to research before I did a new drug. I never had anything but a little lightheadedness the one time I tried it, simply because the person who gave it to me only left me with a bag of dried leaves and instructions to smoke it out of my bong. I didn't know what I was doing and didn't even bother to look it up and wasted a rather large amount of leaves. This happened several years ago, but I plan to try again someday and hopefully break through.

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Re: What has Salvia taught you? [Re: Jackal]
    #1311355 -

Try extract


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Re: What has Salvia taught you? [Re: rhizo]
    #1311373 -

I took the extract. And all it did was slap me with an indifferent hand... I felt like an idiot afterwards. I guess that taught me respect and to humble myself before I take it.

I doubt highly this was a break through experience. I will try salvia again. Im going to quid(<---i think thats the word.) the extract.


--------------------
focusing
Flow
The Enneagram

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Re: What has Salvia taught you? [Re: rhizo]
    #1311543 -

Oh jeez.....um yeah. I don't have a good grasp on what I've learned on Salvia, but it was very 'out there'. I instantly lost my ego and it seemed as if it erased all the memories in my head and defragmented it before putting everything back. I don't know why I was laughing histarically, but I was. As I was coming out of it, I say my friend and all I could say was "Who the fuck are you?" and then to the other as he was coming around the corner.

To sum it all up, I learned that you should be prepared before smoking Salvia. I don't think I was.


--------------------
What if everything around you
Isn't quite as it seems?
What if all the world you think you know,
Is an elaborate dream?
And if you look at your reflection,
Is it all you want it to be?


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Re: What has Salvia taught you? [Re: rhizo]
    #1313050 -

What has Salvia taught me?
Hmmm..

I've had some "Dialogue" (entities) on Shrooms a few magical times, sometimes even on 1gr of libs which was highly impressive. But then again, hour after hour of consciousness undulating in all directions might be required..
No.
Salvia has taught me that Dialogue really is nothing that might be mentally blurry or the result of hours of meditation in Inner Space.
I partially believed there was such a thing as Dialogue but now I "know" it as certain as anything can be.

I can get off my ass to my bedroom, meditate, light up on Salvia 10x once, perhaps twice, and I know now that Dialogue WILL HAPPEN. Rite now, within 10-20 minutes. For someone shamanistically inclined this is immensely valuable. Wether it's Salvia or a part of my brain speaking is nonimportant. There's Q&A, there's Teachings, Clairvoyant things going on (objectively: on paper days before it happens), seemingly flippant remarks from beyond and even assistance & advice.
My most important Plant Teachers are Teonanacatl, Cannabis, Salvia and Datura and each is unique. But "There & back again" (like Bilbo calls it) in 5 minutes... Highly impressive.

And then there's the sensation of being in other places (mostly my house) and observing through my livingroom window (where my body isn't) that a red autumn leaf comes flying in and gently lands on my kitchen table. Seeing that leaf, knowing that leaf, BEING that leaf...
And afterwards I go there and the leaf really IS there.

Sure, weird stuff happens too, stuff that seems to have no meaning at all other than being cosmically funny. And I do love the tingling!
Open eyes have no value at all, nor is there reward in high doses for me.

50mg Salvia 10x inna pipe, sucking the lighter flame into it, holding it for like 20sec and dropping back on my matress, exhaling smokeless air, closing my eyes and drifting off into the Salviverse.
The newbie thinks "krakhed", the Initiated knows what I mean  :grin:

 


--------------------
Omnicyclion.org
higher knowledge starts here

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Re: What has Salvia taught you? [Re: rhizo]
    #1313320 -

it taught me that my life sucks. and that everything around me is just holding me back into this hell. and the longer i wait to get away, the less chance i have.


so basically, salvia taught me that im screwed.


--------------------
"is there a doctor in the house?
we like fuck that, nut sacks in yo mouth
lemme show you what a thug about
we can talk or we can slug it out"
-cisco kid

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Re: What has Salvia taught you? [Re: rhizo]
    #1313344 -

Each of my trips share a common theme: the systematic destruction of my "reality" (whatever it may be) and myself.

I turn into an object, usually very small. Once I was a zipper. I was once a peice of paint on the corner of the mouth on a small plastic fisher-price toy person. I always know exactly what I am at the time. This transformation comes very easily and I have no problems handling it. It feels natural to be in that state. I accept that I am not human.

There's always other beings around with me. Usually whatever friends I have with me at the time. Sometimes others, though. They are also transformed into whatever I am.

Then the destruction of reality begins. This I can't handle at all. I can let go up to this point, but not beyond. I am suddenly faced with the end of everything. This scares the shit out of me. Mere death seems like a walk in the park compared to THE END.

My world comes appart in unique ways. I unzipped my own reality. Someone pulled the head off the toy. Whatever it is, I can watch the tears in reality come towards me.

Sometimes the trip ends suddenly here, before I cease to exist. The times when it doesn't end here, I cannot describe.

What has all this taught me? I am not ready to let go yet. I'm working on it, but not yet.

Something else:
Quite often, on non-breakthrough trips, I get an intersting visual. It looks like whatever object I am looking at is flying away from me, except the object itself doesn't get smaller or appear to move. It looks like the space around the object is stretching out, kind of.

My room mate's computer monitor does something cool. When you first turn it on, for just the first second that the screen is visible, it appears to shrink slightly. The way it does this looks exactly like the visual I just described. If you look at the middle of the screen and turn it on, it appears to fly away from you without getting smaller.  :smirk: 


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Once, men turned their thinking over to machines in the hope that this would set them free.
But that only permitted other men with machines to enslave them.

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Re: What has Salvia taught you? [Re: trendal]
    #1313349 -

trendal:

how do you use the salvia? whats your usual dose?


salvia has never taken my anywhere. ive seen things, but they're always views of my past, and it like they're being dissected, and im seeing how an outsider would view them. this is how it has ruined me, because i know the things that i do wrong, yet cant find the power to change them.


--------------------
"is there a doctor in the house?
we like fuck that, nut sacks in yo mouth
lemme show you what a thug about
we can talk or we can slug it out"
-cisco kid

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Re: What has Salvia taught you? [Re: rhizo]
    #1313360 -

My only MAJOR experience with Salvia taught me that if you are going to trip around friends, make sure they are GOOD close friends.  My friends and one of his friends who had come over right before I smoked it were sitting on a couch when I went up.  I had to sit up and scream "WHO THE FUCK ARE YOU?!" to the new guy because of a few reasons.  They had become dieties of some sort (the kind that ask if you want to go further, or stay that way forever), who were all like "welcome!, it's about fucking time!".  After the question was posed, I balked.  Then I couldn't answer the question anymore.  So I posed carefully thought out questions to my friends looking for answers like "what is this place, who are you, what would have happened if I said yes."  Their answers could have been interpreted DIRECTLY as if they were dieties from Salvialand.  Very bizarre.

Oh, and as soon as I got there, I felt a mexican woman :smile:
Mexican in a wierd messed up way, felt like Yosamete Sam's beard, or the Taco-Time cactus.

Then I realized the nature of the plant.  I walked in the shoes of the first man to take Salvia.  He/I was walking along when the Salvia hit with full force, and he dropped to the ground, face first.  BOOM.  When he hit the ground, his 'soul' just kept going right on into Salvia-land.

Salvia is chaotic in a way that I could never have imagined.  Best I can explain is with this picture I found.


Very enlightening though, very warm, very homey, very intense (if not THE most intense of all trips), very motherly (Lady Salvia = mother nature?), VERY hard to explain. :smile: 

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Re: What has Salvia taught you? [Re: rhizo]
    #1313363 -

i just recently took my first trip into salvia-land, and im still trying to grasp all that happened...so strong, so fast, so different.....weirdest feeling i have ever felt and to know that i just barely scratched the surface with this plant is truely amazing. i am almost scared to try it again, but then again i am also excited and anxious at the same time....i want to break through and learn all that it can teach.

for the moment it has taught me that there are states of being that i never dreamed could be possible...like said in an earlier post, the ego loss was instant. and the tingling i felt in my body had a kind of gravitational pull to it, making every molecule in my body want to spiral down to the ground. it was intence....much respect goes out to this plant


--------------------
how's your WOW?





  Edited by yageman (04/20/06 4:20 PM) 

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Re: What has Salvia taught you? [Re: wrestler_az]
    #1313445 -

or the moment it has taught me that there are states of being that i never dreamed could be possible...

I haven't used salvia yet, but I think this is what is so interesting about psychedelics in general. The fact that we are actually capable of producing and experiencing these states which are so discontinuous with our normal modes of living. It makes you wonder what kind of other realities exist which we couldn't even begin to conceive of or imagine. It's like Mckenna said:

"...what we discover through the psychedelic experience is that in the body, in the body, there are Niagras of beauty, alien beauty, alien dimensions that are part of the self, the richest part of life."


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Re: What has Salvia taught you? [Re: rhizo]
    #1313513 -

Salvia cut down some of that internal chatter in my brain and reminded me to live in the NOW, like most psychedelic substances do to me :wink:

The only time you can EVER do ANYTHING is RIGHT NOW!!! and psychedelics seem to help me get closer to the present by minimizing all the hesitence and negative expectations and fears n things like that that sometimes get in the way of following one's plans


--------------------
Insert an "I think" mentally in front of eveything I say that seems sketchy, because I certainly don't KNOW much. Also; feel free to yell at me.
In addition: SHPONGLE

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Re: What has Salvia taught you? [Re: Strumpling]
    #1314529 -

salvia always sems to remind me that i should jsut be enjoying the moment i'm in, don't wory about the past, or the future, just the now.
i like it, it always makes me so relaxed, i haven't really broke though yet, but what i have experence has been very nice.


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What fun is it in Nirvana while other beings are suffering?

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Re: What has Salvia taught you? [Re: minusrestraint]
    #1316182 -

minusrestraint: I've tried 10x, regular leaf, and now my own extraction (somewhere around 10-15x).

Leaf is horrible, if you ask me. I can get JUST as high on it as I can on 10x (I'm sensitive to salvia) but it takes a LOT more to get there. Salvia doesn't taste good to me. I have a lot of bad trips when I use regular leaf. I think it's just a bad way to start a salvia trip, choking down some nasty tasting smoke.

The extract I made is turning out to be my favorite. A small bowl, probably 50-75mg, is all it takes for most of my friends to get insane visuals. It puts me right on the edge of a breakthrough. Trips are much easier to handle with extracts. You take one nice toke and hold it in ten seconds or so. Then you have ten to thirty seconds to prepare for the high. You can feel it creep up because you are waiting for it, as opposed to leaf, which I am usually still smoking and coughing from as the trip hits.

I think I've found my sweet spot. I can smoke just enough now to get all the visuals I get from a breakthrough, PLUS the insane story line, and not lose contact with reality. Being able to watch my world disintigrate around me while still talking to my friends about what I'm seeing is fun  :smirk:


--------------------
Once, men turned their thinking over to machines in the hope that this would set them free.
But that only permitted other men with machines to enslave them.

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Re: What has Salvia taught you? [Re: trendal]
    #1316190 -

lol "it puts me right on the edge of a breakthrough" :wink: thats a cool line.

On all psychedelics, if I lose the "moment," and forget about the NOW, then it starts feeling like something BIG is JUST around the corner, JUST on the tip of reality's metaphorical "tongue"


--------------------
Insert an "I think" mentally in front of eveything I say that seems sketchy, because I certainly don't KNOW much. Also; feel free to yell at me.
In addition: SHPONGLE

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Re: What has Salvia taught you? [Re: Strumpling]
    #1318412 -

Well after another breakthrough last night, I think I can finally put some better description to my experience.

When I break through on salvia, everything feels very wrong. You know the feeling when you are doing something wrong and you know it's wrong, then you get caught while doing it? That's how I feel on salvia, except the thing I'm not supposed to be doing is existing.

The story line and visuals always revolve around one thing: the destruction of my "reality".

Imagine a society. A police-state. The law is the law here, and if you break the law it is a serious deal. Lets say you use drugs, and this is against the law. So you have your little drug room in your house where you and your fellow renegades sit and do your drugs. Now you know that what you are doing is dangerous because if you get caught you're a deadman. So one day you and your friends are sitting there smoking...and the door busts down. It's the cops.

Imagine that feeling just as they bust down the door. The instant of realization where you know you're fucked.

Ok I'll try again, more abstractly. This has to do with my perception of "reality" and it's true nature while on salvia.

Imagine all of "reality" is a smooth block of plastic. Now imagine a small burr sticking out of the block. A scratch in the plastic. That burr is me. The burr is my "reality" and existence away from the smooth uniform block. The scratch isn't supposed to be there, though, is it? It's a deformity in the otherwise smooth block. This is what I understand my existence to be (while on salvia, of course). I should not exist in the same way that the burr should not exist. Get it?

So I'm breaking through and all this crazy story line is going on leading up to The End.

It's funny sometimes. My friends (or at least whoever i see at the time) will get very upset with me over the fact that I just can't seem to handle the destruction of reality. They seem fine with it. I'm not though, I usually panic. They get embarrased that I'm making such a fuss. "Sit down man! This is supposed to happen" is something they might say. It's all very strange while it's happening. I'm freaking out while the room tears apart, and my hallucinations are telling me to calm the fuck down cause it will all be ok.

I tried explaining all this last night while I was coming down, but I think I lost everyone somewhere in my explanation. I know this is a lot of rambling, but hopefully I can get just one of you to understand what I'm talking about here. It's annoying the shit out of me that no one can seem to understand exactly what I'm talking about.  :smirk: 


--------------------
Once, men turned their thinking over to machines in the hope that this would set them free.
But that only permitted other men with machines to enslave them.

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Re: What has Salvia taught you? [Re: trendal]
    #1318605 -

It doesn't mean your not supposed to exist, but maybe your current lifestyle is like that burr on the cube. Maybe you just need to step back and see how you could change so that you're not a burr anymore. Salvia is just showing you that you can become better than you are right now. The confusion arises because maybe you don't want to change. Salvia seems to give everyone a personalized message according to whats going on in each individuals life.


--------------------
"The only unchangeable certainty is that nothing is certain and everything is changeable."

Edited by peruvian spark (02/19/03 05:59 AM)

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Re: What has Salvia taught you? [Re: trendal]
    #1319003 -

trendal, your experience sounds very close to mine. I think I understand better what I was experiencing/feeling after reading your post. Just one thing about your friends, do they have the same number of breakthrough experiences under their belts? I think the experiences get more intense and the message becomes clearer after subsequent breakthroughs. I believe Salvia may be telling us that we have constructed this reality and exist within it because we can not face the true nature of existence. Maybe it is too chaotic and we feel we must give it some stability. I know exactly what you mean about that 'I've just been caught doing something wrong and now I'm fucked for eternity feeling'. Anyway, it was nice reading your post, could really relate to it.

*edit* Oh yeah, Salvia also made me realize this...

"...the universe is a thought process. It is composed of nothing but thoughts, or concepts. Some physicists have tentatively and reluctantly suggested that theory and experiments are pointing to this conclusion." A Pure-Consciousness Model of the Universe by Richard P. Dolan



--------------------
An optimist is never pleasantly surprised.

Edited by rhizo (02/19/03 02:07 PM)

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Re: What has Salvia taught you? [Re: rhizo]
    #1319437 -

I don't think any of my friends have broken through yet. Some of them seem to come very close, but not quite.


--------------------
Once, men turned their thinking over to machines in the hope that this would set them free.
But that only permitted other men with machines to enslave them.

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Re: What has Salvia taught you? [Re: rhizo]
    #1319536 -

I ignited a bowl of 10x extract in my car with a close buddy of mine watching me, while listening to atmosphere by Joy Division. What followed was truly strange and mind boggling. I finished the bowl after smoking very fast and holding it very deep. The next thing I know, a wave of terror came over me. Not just ordinary terror, the most scary experience of my life. This terror was in the form of a female being. She came over me and held me in her grips for only a few seconds, but it was overwhelming.

After I felt this fear, I changed into a different person immediately, I started laughing hysterically and was filled with evil, terrifying thoughts. I couldn't control them and I became this person. My friend told me I stepped out of the car and fell to the ground, laughing hysterically and saying some pretty messed up stuff about my death and killing others.

I don't know what to make of these experience, except that it was an experience i'll never forget. In a way it was quite refreshing being scared out of my mind. (literally)

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Re: What has Salvia taught you? [Re: trendal]
    #1320487 -

"The story line and visuals always revolve around one thing: the destruction of my "reality"."

Yes thats the "boundary dissolution" that McKenna was so intent on getting across :smile:

Your boundaries are fading..... hopefully you'll start to realize that as long as you actually stand up and act, you really can do almost anything :wink:


--------------------
Insert an "I think" mentally in front of eveything I say that seems sketchy, because I certainly don't KNOW much. Also; feel free to yell at me.
In addition: SHPONGLE

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Re: What has Salvia taught you? [Re: trendal]
    #1320772 -

"Don't be a pussy, the destruction of reality is SUPPOSED to happen, don't make a big deal out of it..."

YEAH RIGHT!!! The Destruction of the Everything & All, Ego Death and all that good shit isn't for everybody. It really isn't. I could finger like 10 non-drug people whom I know whoul'd crumble & shatter.

It's nothing for ME too & I'm willing to defend that. Alexander Shulgin, the inventor of 99% of all Psychedelics in existence who trips like x times a month for decades is with me on this. I've seen people get deeply into the Divine on a joint of Grass and I've seen "4x Egodeath & Beyond a year" dudes that were complete assholes, flatter than a frying pan Spiritually. Giving up everything & diving headfirst into the Unknown? Nope: not my cup of tea at all. I've got this tremendous instinct it isn't good for me so I steer clear of it.

Someone said: The Carnival Screams, the Teacher Whispers.

I find this to be true with Psychedelics. I take low doses. I have taken 250 mcg of LSD in the past (as strong as 8 grams of regular street shrooms) and allthough I yearn for the sheer beauty of it I'll never take as much again, as the average 1gr of street cubensis deemed mindnumbingly boring by the vast majority of shroomers in the right set & setting are WAY MORE instructive & a Growth Experience to me than that All Good, Deep Fry, Skyflying Monsterdose.

But: DO NOT get hung up on thoughts like you don't belong here, you're not "worthy" etc. Everything is equally valuable and essential: YOU TOO.
I truely believe that if you ceased to exist (not die but vanish from the fabric of the All) the Universe, God, would collapse in on Itself and there'll be nothing left than the Total Void. The message has to be different.
You are ESSENTIAL.


--------------------
Omnicyclion.org
higher knowledge starts here

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Re: What has Salvia taught you? [Re: Asante]
    #1322026 -

If I were to put real belief into my salvia experiences...none of you would be real. You are all part of the plot that is my false existence! Muahahahahaha!

:smirk:


--------------------
Once, men turned their thinking over to machines in the hope that this would set them free.
But that only permitted other men with machines to enslave them.

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Re: What has Salvia taught you? [Re: trendal]
    #1322063 -

"everything feels very wrong"


although i only have one trip into salvia, and it wasnt quite a breakthrough, i too felt this theme.... the best way i could describe it is walking into a bar and having the music stop, and all eyes on you. just an overwhelming fearfull and anxious feeling of not knowing how your going to get out of this situation...i loved it! :grin: 


--------------------
how's your WOW?





  Edited by yageman (04/20/06 4:20 PM) 

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Re: What has Salvia taught you? [Re: trendal]
    #1325005 -

Life is a joke.


.......Laugh with us.  :laugh:


--------------------
What if everything around you
Isn't quite as it seems?
What if all the world you think you know,
Is an elaborate dream?
And if you look at your reflection,
Is it all you want it to be?


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General Interest > Philosophy, Sociology & Psychology
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