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A thought (I apologize for the poor transcription)
    #4152348 -

By Sam Harris, from, "The End of Faith: Religion, Terror, and the Future of Reason."


Finding ourselves in a universe that seems bent upon destroying us, we quickly discover, both as individuals and as societies, that it is a good thing to understand the forces arrayed against us.  And so it is that every human being comes to desire genuine knowledge about the world.  This has always posed a special problem for religion, because every religion preaches the truth of propositions for which it has no evidence.  In fact, every religion preaches the truth of propositions for which no evidence is even _conceivable_.  This put the "leap" in Kierkegaard's leap of faith.

What if all our knowledge about the world were suddenly to disappear?  Imagine that six billion of us wake up tomorrow morning in a state of utter ignorance and confusion.  Our books and computers are still here, but we can't make heads or tails of their contents.  We have even forgotten how to drive cars and brush our teeth.  What knowledge would we want to reclaim first?  Well, there's that business about growing food and building shelter that we would want to get reacquainted with.  We would want to relearn how to use and repair many of our machines.  Learning to understand spoken and written language would also be a top priority, given that these skills are necessary for acquiring most others.  When in this process of reclaiming our humanity will it be important to know that Jesus was born of a virgin? Or that he was resurrected?  And hwo would we relearn these truths, if they are indeed _true_?  By reading the Bible?  Our tour of the shelves will deliver similar pearls from antiquity--like the "fact" that Isis, the goddess for fertility, sports an impressive pair of cow horns.  Reading further, we will learn that Thor carries a hammer and that Marduk's sacred animals are horses, dogs, and a dragon with a forked tongue.  Whom shall we give top billing in our resurrected world?  Yaweh or Shiva?  And when will we want to relearn that premarital sex is a sin?  Or that adultresses should be stoned to death?  Or that the soul enters the zygote at the moment of conception?  And what will we think of those curious people who begin proclaiming that one of our books is distinct from all others in that it was actually written by the Creator of the universe? 


:sun:


--------------------
Jerry Garcia. JERRY GARCIA! JERRY GARCIA!!!!

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Re: A thought (I apologize for the poor transcription) [Re: GnuBobo]
    #4152458 -

I suspect if that happened, there'd be a legitimate reason for reading scripture at face value, instead of trying to de-mythologise it.


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It is the mark of an educated mind to be able to entertain a thought without accepting it.

- Aristotle

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Re: A thought (I apologize for the poor transcription) [Re: Alan Stone]
    #4152480 -

There would be no intention to de-mythologize, though. It would be a search for Truth. Where would you start?


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Jerry Garcia. JERRY GARCIA! JERRY GARCIA!!!!

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The Divine Messages of our Creator....(?) [Re: GnuBobo]
    #4152696 -

GnuBobo said:
And what will we think of those curious people who begin proclaiming that one of our books is distinct from all others in that it was actually written by the Creator of the universe? 


:sun:




Most perplexing and surreal....    At this moment in time, I am left to wonder what my proclaimation of "force" would accomplish.... 
.
I offer the starseed blessings of a book with energy and soul, I saw no deception, as it was all stripped away layer by layer, and left to be naked and bare....  An unspoken language of higher understanding, and quite beautiful at that....    Artifacts of the written evolution....   
.
"Transfigurations" By:  Alex Grey.....
.
As asked by anyone that might wonder, that would be my most humble recommendation....    :japsmile:


:sun:


--------------------
Uni-VersALL      MasterPeace
eMotive  :sun: Divinity NowThere Infinity :sun:  eMelody

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Re: The Divine Messages of our Creator....(?) [Re: eMotionALLmotion]
    #4169077 -

And which to believe?  Not arguing with you...as I think you're getting at personal experience.  I'm just wondering about a "blank slate" new start.  How to re-order society based on truths that are knowable in the present day, assuming everyone suddenly turned utterly primitive. 

We might really like buildings and farms and cookie factories.  So we might go after those first off and try to get them done.

But as for a cohesive spiritual doctrine...it's very hard to see when/where/how that might be revealed as a Truth.

I very much like the approach Harris takes in this book. 
Spiritualism isn't discounted--as far as I've read--but codification, indoctrination, the following of historical figures and the morals and norms of their society however many centuries ago--that all becomes nonsensical. 

Interesting read.  :sun:

And Ziddy--I strongly encourage you to get this book given your fascination with gnosticism and breaking from orthodox islamic doctrine. 
If you believe you are a gnostic--then where do you draw the line at which beliefs one ought to trust out of the Koran or the thoughts of Mohammed that still ring true? 

Off to smoke a cigarette....  :smile2:


--------------------
Jerry Garcia. JERRY GARCIA! JERRY GARCIA!!!!

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Re: The Divine Messages of our Creator....(?) [Re: GnuBobo]
    #4169232 -

GnuBobo said:
I'm just wondering about a "blank slate" new start.  How to re-order society based on truths that are knowable in the present day, assuming everyone suddenly turned utterly primitive.


.
Well then, the primitive traditional spiritual peoples all over the lands would become much more "valuable" now wouldn't they....    :wink:
All the "secrets" to those "distant" far away lands are within the minds of those people that live there....

An artist's renditioning of GOD, we all are.... 
(if you will, pardon for pushing my own beliefs)

The teachers will teach, the hunters and farmers will provide, the students will be taught, the artists will paint, the writers will write, and the musicians will make music for EVERYONE to sing and dance too....!

Just have to listen to the inner flow I guess....   
Faith in what you believe in :sun:, and a strong heart to make it happen....  :heartpump:

:heart:


--------------------
Uni-VersALL      MasterPeace
eMotive  :sun: Divinity NowThere Infinity :sun:  eMelody

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Re: A thought (I apologize for the poor transcription) [Re: GnuBobo]
    #4169551 -

I really like Sams style of thought.
And this thread,
Thanks Emotion and Gnubobo. :sun:


--------------------
these long agonizing months without you...have been long and agonizing..
"War Doesn't Decide Who's Right... It Only Decides Who's Left."

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Re: A thought (I apologize for the poor transcription) [Re: flowstone]
    #4169639 -

Yes, good thread! :smile:

I like thought experiments like this...


...however, I must grant the knowledge which resides within me:

This happens every day, except for one minor detail (ooh how I could almost taste it). Once you open your eyes in the morning you start reclaiming your humanity, you start re-membering everything and pieces it back together.

The detail that was missing, was that when you've finally pieced it all back together you are left in a state of total and utter confusion. Until that point you are merely "sleeping" or "looking" or "wondering" or "thinking" or "remembering".

When you are sufficiently confused, you are able to move your body out of bed and start doing stuff in the harddrive we call "reality" which exists solely to collect all bits and parts of knowledge spread out in time and space.

Correction, it doesn't exist to collect, rather it exists AS a collection. A collection of dreams, of knowledge, of beliefs, of matter, of anything you can think of, pieced together to form a perfect delusion with perfect elusiveness which can never be caught.

You, or even I may think that I've hit the nail on this one, but it still doesn't explain anything but a confused mind in a confused world.

So lets start digging...so we can lose ourselves again. I already did.

:thumbup:


--------------------
The argent messenger of truth beyond truth, the antithesis of life, cruel and bleak as interstellar space, pulseless and frozen as absolute zero, dazzling with the frost of irrefragable logic and unforgettable fact.

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Re: A thought (I apologize for the poor transcription) [Re: slaphappy]
    #4169662 -

You may have missed "~smiling~" - or perhaps that was just "~me~"....(?)    :heart:


:sun:

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Re: A thought (I apologize for the poor transcription) [Re: eMotionALLmotion]
    #4169680 -

Everything adds up to the great smile :laugh:


--------------------
The argent messenger of truth beyond truth, the antithesis of life, cruel and bleak as interstellar space, pulseless and frozen as absolute zero, dazzling with the frost of irrefragable logic and unforgettable fact.

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Re: A thought (I apologize for the poor transcription) [Re: slaphappy]
    #4169863 -

slaphappy said:
Everything adds up to the great smile :laugh:


Beauteous!


:smile:


--------------------


--------------------
Disclaimer!?

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A Thought.... [Re: GnuBobo]
    #4211206 -

I have also been studying Sacred Geometry lately....   
I dunno~ if there is a book, as I have not looked, but there is a lot about it on the web....   
Alex Grey is a Divine Artist, but the secrets to life are built on 3D geometry, just like us - in this "3D Reality".... 

We are but "living" fractals in a world of frequencies and vibrational energy tones....    :japsmile:


:sun:


--------------------
Uni-VersALL      MasterPeace
eMotive  :sun: Divinity NowThere Infinity :sun:  eMelody

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Re: A Thought.... [Re: eMotionALLmotion]
    #4211595 -

If our experiences did ever become null, it would be like we were just born and as a child you are not really seeking things out yet and all experiences gained we will soon learn how to talk and soon learn new ways of thinking.


--------------------
Evolution of Time.

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