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InvisibleMoonshoe
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learning to apologize
    #3148544 - 09/17/04 03:55 PM (12 years, 2 months ago)

is something i am beginning to work on and understand the importance of.

In the past ive damn near never done this sincerely or voluntarily, now im making an effort to seek out people i feel ive wronged and genuinely apologize, even if we both did things wrong and hurt each other, i consider it is most important to apologize for your side of the problem without the demand or even expectation of reciprocation.

For example, my Literary focus teacher and me spent 2 years causing each other grief, her with her uninspired, dull, lifeless, boring, intellectually insulting class and slightly bitch attitude, me with my sullen, contemptuous one, and my continuous insistence in getting the highest (among the highest) marks in the class when she knew damn well i wasnt doing the reading or putting in any effort.

At the end of the year we got to fill out reviews of the teacher, and mine were pretty harsh

'Change your proffesion! your class is like a boring dream! ' etc

this year, even though i think the above comments were honest, i decided to apologize to her for being so caustic, simply because i dont like causing people pain. She said she didnt care , that she could take it, but i think on some level that kind of stuff is bound to hurt , i mean no one likes to hear that they suck at their 20 year career.

But after i apologized she said ' i think anything a student says has some truth in it' etc and sort of admitted that she had stuff to work on as well

i dunno im just learning to swallow my pride. I find that apology can be the best way to deal with conflict, even if the other person is 'more' wrong the apology on your side really helps get positive interaction going.

Its very liberating, on a personal level, you can feel the karmic burden being taken off your shoulders with every sincere apology

Try it!


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Everything I post is fiction. This poster is no longer active.


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Offlinedeff
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Re: learning to apologize [Re: Moonshoe]
    #3148663 - 09/17/04 04:31 PM (12 years, 2 months ago)

It is liberating :smile:

Dissolve all boundaries and let the pattern emerge


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OfflineTodcasil
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Re: learning to apologize [Re: Moonshoe]
    #3149391 - 09/17/04 07:31 PM (12 years, 2 months ago)

karma exists only so long as you give it fuel, thought.

apologies are one way of massaging your conscience and getting rid of all those stiff memories.

others:

think about how many apologies youve given, and not meant, not even thought about as your were apologizing. you just did it to ease the situation away... what has come of them? how are your relationships with those people in the long run, with a constant series of unapolgetic apologies?

peace


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Men look at themselves and they see flawed humans, we look at women and we see perfect
GODDESSES
Women look at themselves and they seem utterly human, when looking at men they see proud
GODS.


~Casil



:cactus:


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OfflineElfWizard
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Re: learning to apologize [Re: Moonshoe]
    #3149454 - 09/17/04 07:53 PM (12 years, 2 months ago)

apologies are not nessary but let me explane I have seen in post apologies are not necessary but let me explain I have seen in post after post we all agree everything is tied together in fact we're all just parts of the greater "Whole" so when you hurt someone else you only hurt yourself do you apologize when you stub you toe? Prob not you try to lessen the pain and try to sooth the hurt. Now when talking about others apologies might be necessary as a band Aid but they only cover up the wound you need to do more if you wish to fix the wound.  :flowerchild: :inlove:


:heart: :thumbup:


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"Fear is the Mind Killer"
Frank Herbert's Dune

"Shoot straight, conserve ammo and never cut a deal with a dragon"
Shadowrun street Proverb

To announce there must be no critisism of the president or that we are to stand by the president right or wrong is not only unpatriotic and servile but is morally treasonous to the american public
Pres. Theodore Roosevelt


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Invisiblemr crisper
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Posts: 928
Re: learning to apologize [Re: Moonshoe]
    #3149668 - 09/17/04 09:04 PM (12 years, 2 months ago)

come to japan, apologizing is an artform here.
every business meeting i go to, the first 20 minutes is spent apologizing to each other - sorry to use up your valuable time, sorry to breathe the same air as you, etc.
last week i went to a shop to ask about a book i'd ordered. it had not arrived, no stress, but the shop assistant bowed so low in apology he banged his forehead on the counter.


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Invisiblegettinjiggywithit
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Re: learning to apologize [Re: Moonshoe]
    #3149762 - 09/17/04 09:36 PM (12 years, 2 months ago)

Weather an apology is sincere, heartfelt or not, an expression of one does help to keep one humble (unstubborn) and the lines of communication open. If it goes unaccepted, then the other person will have to carry the eight of the grudge and resentment.

So far, it's all been about seeking the forgiveness of the other or easing the wieght from a guilty conscious by making an apology.

Here's what I have been doing and works for me quite well. I forgive myself first and foremost. After all free will to do as we please was forgiven of us of our creator was it not? So why can't we accept that forgiveness, allow ourselves and others to make "mis-takes" of action or word and move on in peace.

If I feel bad for something I did or said, I will forgive myself for it, accept that I made a mistake and then, move on, making any plausible corrections I can take responcibility for, including make an apology. What more can you do?

Forgiving yourself first is how you keep the weight of guilt and wrongfullness from setting in. We are allowed (from a higher perspective) to make mistakes and act on negative ignorant thoughts and feelings. It's how we grow in self understanding.

It also helps to realise that imperfection is a part of the perfection and that disorder is apart of the divine order of things.


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Ahuwale ka nane huna.


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OfflineFrog
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Re: learning to apologize [Re: Moonshoe]
    #3150899 - 09/18/04 05:38 AM (12 years, 2 months ago)

I don't mind apologizing. I hate doing it, because it means I fucked up somehow, but I don't want to cut off a relationship just because of my pride. And you know what I learned? When you apologize, people appreciate it.

What an apology says is, "I fucked up. I made a mistake. I won't ever do it again. I take responsibility for it."

I've learned that people don't mind when someone fucks up. But people hate it when the one who fucks up shirks responsibility for the fuck up, such as denying blame, or assigning blame.

If I fuck up and take responsibility for it, and FIX IT, the person on whose behalf I fucked up will continue to use me on other matters.


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The day will come when, after harnessing the ether, the winds, the tides, gravitation, we shall harness for God the energies of love. And, on that day, for the second time in the history of the world, man will have discovered fire.  -Teilard


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OfflineMushmonkey
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Re: learning to apologize [Re: Frog]
    #3151062 - 09/18/04 09:10 AM (12 years, 2 months ago)

I've been called over-apologetic before.. meh. To which I replied.. "I'm.. sorry?" win!

An apology's just a way of lettin someone know that you either didn't intend, didn't realize, or didn't know something you were doing was fuckedup. Basically, just to let them know you weren't intentionally being an ass, that you didn't realize you were being an ass, or that you didn't know what you were doing was assholish.

And sometimes, you just can't stop yourself, and you make a pun. Obviously, apologies should immediately follow.


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InvisibleSwami
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Re: learning to apologize [Re: ElfWizard]
    #3151160 - 09/18/04 02:41 PM (12 years, 2 months ago)

Perhaps when I stub my toe, someone else should apologize to me!

As we are all one and my actions must somehow reflect the desires of the whole, the whole must have been in consensus that my toe "needed" to be hurt at that moment in time. But maybe there was no lesson, just a sadistic group decision to inflict pain. So I wait patiently for the forthcoming apology...


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The proof is in the pudding.


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Invisiblegettinjiggywithit
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Re: learning to apologize [Re: Swami]
    #3151423 - 09/18/04 05:46 PM (12 years, 2 months ago)

You hit on a deep truth in there swami. If people only knew how everything is contractual. There is never anyone to blame, we create it all and make agreements on higher levels to play various power roles as in the haves and have nots, the agressors and the victims yada yada.

99% of the population isn't ready to give up the blame game. Soooooo even though I don't require apologies from others, (I keep myslef 99% accountable) I'm sorry for the pain in your big toe swami.


--------------------
Ahuwale ka nane huna.


Edited by gettinjiggywithit (09/18/04 08:17 PM)


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InvisibleSwami
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Re: learning to apologize [Re: gettinjiggywithit]
    #3151598 - 09/18/04 06:58 PM (12 years, 2 months ago)

Thanks Jiggy! :heart:  It all bedder now.


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The proof is in the pudding.


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Anonymous

Re: learning to apologize [Re: Moonshoe]
    #3151649 - 09/18/04 07:21 PM (12 years, 2 months ago)

You should never apologize to anyone unless you made a sincere mistake. How do you expect someone to respect you when you make apologies for actions that you intended?


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InvisibleMoonshoe
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Re: learning to apologize [Re: ]
    #3153015 - 09/19/04 03:17 AM (12 years, 2 months ago)

when i apologize its not nescessarily because i think i was wrong, Rather i do it because im trying to give up the need to be 'right' or the need to have other people agree with me. So if someone is mad it is often so much easier and more beneficial to say 'im sorry i hurt you, ill try to be kinder' rather than playing the whole 'me apologize? hell no! YOU apologize" game


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Everything I post is fiction. This poster is no longer active.


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Anonymous

Re: learning to apologize [Re: Moonshoe]
    #3153329 - 09/19/04 06:34 PM (12 years, 2 months ago)

It is a matter of ego, but not just yours. What I'm saying is, when you apologize you make yourself somehow responsible for other peoples' reactions. You're responsible for your actions, but not for others' reactions. For example, suppose you say something and someone takes it the wrong way, or suppose you go and outright insult someone to their face. You did what you did for a reason. You're not responsible for how they react to it. Suppose they laugh it off. You probably wouldn't think to apologize then. People only tend to apologize when another person is hurt. Suppose you intentionally push someone to the ground, and they're hurt both physically and emotionally. If you apologize in this situation you're saying what you did was a mistake, when in fact it wasn't a mistake at all at the time you did it, because you intended to do it. What does this say about your character? It shows that you change your mind on a whim depending on others' feelings. You're just sating their ego to make them feel better, like flattery. Apology doesn't change the past, but it tries to. It's a mental form of revision of history. Forgiveness, apology's less popular cousin, doesn't attempt to change the past. It simply forgets about it.

Of course, this is all my opinion.


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Offlinedeff
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Re: learning to apologize [Re: ]
    #3153358 - 09/19/04 06:55 PM (12 years, 2 months ago)

Bravo :smile:

Good post there Max :cool:


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InvisibleMoonshoe
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Re: learning to apologize [Re: deff]
    #3153560 - 09/19/04 09:15 PM (12 years, 2 months ago)

very good post max! and indeed in certain situations i agree that apologizing isnt nescessary nor nescessarily right. However, when you are dealing with a person you care about/want to continue to be friendly with, it is sometimes nescessary to realize that just because your action wasnt a mistake (in that you meant to do it) doesnt mean it isnt a mistake (in that you shouldn't ) have done it.

The other side of the apology coin is of course forgiveness. Just as i try to apologize when my actions have caused pain to others (IF those are people i dont want to cause pain too) i also try to forgive when others cause pain to me.


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Everything I post is fiction. This poster is no longer active.


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OfflineMushmonkey
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Re: learning to apologize [Re: Moonshoe]
    #3154898 - 09/20/04 02:52 AM (12 years, 2 months ago)

Yup.. an apology isn't to mean you didn't try to do something, but that you did not intend for the consequences that occurred.



I may have meant to push you, but I did not mean for you to fall over. It was intended as a friendly shove in responce to that comment about my mother, I did not realize you were standing on one leg already.. sorry!

That's cool dude, but your mother's still a beast in bed.

Then you don't apologize for the second shove.


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