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Is "promotion" really such a good idea?
    #4206449 -

Don't get me wrong. I'm sure you're well intentioned, and I think the information the shroomery has to offer is invaluable... but drawing undue attention to the site might not be the best of ideas. We should be available to those who are interested but I think running around pushing flyers in peoples faces is going to get us the wrong type of attention. All it takes is a little media attention on spore suppliers for the ignorant people (unfortunately, the majority of the population) to think it's a safety issue. Look what happened with Leary and LSD. Manu people blame him for the illegalization of LSD due to his activism and "promotion". That may not be entirly true, but if the mainstream public hadn't had it pushed in their faces, there wouldn't have been such a big spotlight on it.

Now mushrooms are already illegal, but the spores arn't. It should also be stated that most mainstream media is not reputable. They would much rather scare people and get better ratings than spread the truth. Next thing you know, PC spores will be illegal in ALL states. Be careful how you "promote". Get the right message out there to those who WANT it, not those who you think need it. Don't ruin a good thing, PLEASE.

This is my opinion, and I would like to know what the rest of you think.


--------------------
:kodama:"We must see that consciousness is neither an isolated soul nor the mere function of a single nervous system, but of that totality of interrelated stars and galaxies which makes a nervous system possible."

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Re: Is "promotion" really such a good idea? [Re: kratomboy]
    #4206559 -

well that is a valid concern. and has been brounght up. we are one of the best sites on the internet for this information.
we are however currently protected under the freedom of speech and press. sites like erowid, lyceum (SP), mycotopia, and so on also offer the same information. if any of these sites were to be shut down, the shroomery would allready be on that list. but as of yet it has not happened.

we are going to be doing the street team in "underground" scenes, well close to them. mostly hitting music festivals where they will not be drawing any un-wanted attention.

lsd became illegal beacuse of the things that leary did, its true but with all of the people that got turned on, lsd is still around and cherished. i know that mushroom spores would be impossible to stop. and would probably be along the same line of canabis seeds if they were illegal. you can stil get em, and if you get caught ordering them overseas, you just get a letter


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PEACE

:mushroom2:zippoz:mushroom2:



"in times of widespread chaos and confusion, it has been the duty of more advanced human beings - artists, scientists, clowns, and philosophers - to create order. In such times as ours however, when there is too much order, too much m management, too much programming and control, it becomes the duty of superior men and women and women to fling their favorite monkey wrenches into the machinery. To relieve the repression of the human spirit, they must sow doubt and disruption"

"People do it every day, they talk to themselves ... they see themselves as they'd like to be, they don't have the courage you have, to just run with it."

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Re: Is "promotion" really such a good idea? [Re: ZippoZ]
    #4206655 -

I am also somewhat wary of this idea, but mainly I'm excited.  :thumbup:
I think our main concern is like zippoz already posted... keeping our advertising away from anyone underage.
That's where we could get into real trouble.  :ooo:
Other than that we are protected under freedom of speech.  :laugh:
As far as worrying about shroom spores being made illegal... I don't think that Shroomery promotion would be any different than being on internet search engines.
The feds obviously know about it already, and I don't think promoting at fests and the like would do that much to change it. :shrug:
I think the time to stand up is at hand!  :penis:


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:heartpump: { { { ṧ◎ηḯ¢ αʟ¢ℌ℮мƴ } } } :heartpump:

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Re: Is "promotion" really such a good idea? [Re: ZippoZ]
    #4208081 -

zippoz said:
well that is a valid concern. and has been brounght up. we are one of the best sites on the internet for this information.
we are however currently protected under the freedom of speech and press. sites like erowid, lyceum (SP), mycotopia, and so on also offer the same information. if any of these sites were to be shut down, the shroomery would allready be on that list. but as of yet it has not happened....


I'm not so concerned with the shutdown of this site as I am with the effect of 'spreading the word'. I don't think current society is ready to accept freely and openly what we do and talk about here at the shroomery. Just because it's legal to talk about and protected under freedom of speech doesn't mean that certain people and/or groups wont try to shut us down. When they learn they can't shut us down, they will do everything else they can to make it difficult to use this information, and the first thing that will happen is spore vendors being shutdown. That CAN happen. And yes I agree with you that new laws against spores will not stop people from getting spores, but it WILL mean that I have to break one more law if I want to cultivate and enjoy my mushies. That's one more risk, one more charge, one more felony. One more reason to consider those who grow "criminals", and one step in the wrong direction. I also doubt that new laws against spore distribution would help the shroomery grow. I for one would have to re-evaluate if the risk is worth it. I would probably still grow, but for many others it might not be worth it.

Also, while I agree there should be STRICT rules on how promotional material is handed out, rules wont mean that information won't end up in the hands of an underage kid, who uses the information here to grow illegal mushrooms in his parents house, who then gets caught by his parents who end up looking at this site outraged because of the flyer. It just takes a few incidents like that and some media attention to spur lawmakers into soothing the public's fears by writing new drug laws. Knowledge is indeed power, but there are some really stupid people out there who will use the information the wrong way. The rest of us will end up paying for it.


--------------------
:kodama:"We must see that consciousness is neither an isolated soul nor the mere function of a single nervous system, but of that totality of interrelated stars and galaxies which makes a nervous system possible."

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Re: Is "promotion" really such a good idea? [Re: kratomboy]
    #4208934 -

I agree with all of you wary about this sort of thing, and would also like to add one more thought:

alot of people here who spread information might leave if this place gets that much bigger--they give information knowing they can be low-key and off the radar. If everyone and their mom and their local officer is browsing the site, who's going to give cultivation advice? or even hunting advice?

I'm sure as hell not. The beauty of the internet is to remain anonymous, and the more publicity you have towards a website promoting illegal activities, the less anonymous you become to the feds.

I for one am not willing to trade thousands of newbs for the handful of knowledgeable people who keep this place running, and agree with the points kratomboy and Letto made above.


--------------------
"Love says 'I am everything.' Wisdom says 'I am nothing.' Between the two, my life flows."


Puget Sound Mycological Society

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Re: Is "promotion" really such a good idea? [Re: Psilygirl]
    #4209168 -

Firstly, I love the shroomery and certainly would like to see it grow.

That said, I am alarmed, simply alarmed, that the only pro voice for this whole endeavor is, apparently, the one who introduced it.

I, too, am inherently against this whole thing. Rather than merely repeat or belabor what has already been said, I will add a personal anecdote;

I give a lot of my time to this site helping in General Questions and Other Drugs Discussion. I, for one, am very leary about the prospect of the general public (not just the general internet curious public) registering and posting here. I fear the work load will become just that - a work load, and it will fail to be worthwhile to me anymore.


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delta9

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Re: Is "promotion" really such a good idea? [Re: delta9]
    #4209184 -

Also, directing mass media here is not a good idea.

A lot of illegal shit gets talked about here, for one.

There are a lot of really bad trip reports here.

Yes, I realize that erowid has PLENTY of every kind of trip report and they aren't worried, but erowid doesn't have a topic called, "Has the shroomermy saved you from serious harm? let the world know!".
Quote:
zippoz said:
We want to take your expierences and share them to the world, and the media, and show them that this site and its information can, has, and will continue to save lives through education.


When you give these experiences to the media, who want ratings, and thus drama. Watch.
Quote:
Fox News Correspondent says, live:
Drugs are bad, mmmkay. Some websites look to try and teach people about drugs and how to use them responsibly. SomeStoner421 said the shroomery provided him with the information to avoid a bad trip. But just what is a bad trip, and is this website really doing as much good as it claims? Watch as we expose this mad ring of illegal drug manufacturers, looking to pull your kids in with their new Street Team into their lair where they talk openly about illegal drug use and other illicit activities.

Tonight we will have dramatic reenactments of two of these "bad trips", one of which took place at one of their drug orgy "gatherings". Parents may want to send their children out of the room.


It's dark, I know, but tell me it's not likely.

And speaking of gatherings... I really was looking forward to meeting some really awesome people; people who I think have great personalities, I enjoy spending time shooting the shit with them, and I am not worried that any of them will do something stupid. Now factor in this promotion bullshit. I am sad for the day a shroomery gathering takes place, commercialized, burgenoning with people who are there just for drugs sake, posers. Idiots. PEOPLE, in that much derided MASSES sense. I like a few people. I HATE PEOPLE. PEOPLE are stupid - we all know this.


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delta9

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Re: Is "promotion" really such a good idea? [Re: kratomboy]
    #4209197 -

Press releases? Good god, man. Are you challenging the DEA to a fist fight?

"Hello major media. We know a lot about mushrooms and think that we could be helpful if anyone has questions. Also, we are doing a whole bunch of illegal shit. We've got pictures and everything. Please tell the world.

Many thanks,
Teh Shroomery"

Bad idea.

I can understand the desire to see the ODC grow. I was at a rave recently and talked about the shroomery to a few people. I almost wanted a flyer/business card/whatever to pass along. But do we really want people that can't remember a simple URL joining? I would reckon these to be the same type of people that can't use a search button.

Having printed material can't be good, either. It CAN and WILL end up in the hands of children.

The people that want to know can and will find us. It's not that hard.


And, if I may ask, what is the end goal of this promotion?


Also, what delta9 said about gatherings.


--------------------
I am the devil and I am just like you

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Re: Is "promotion" really such a good idea? [Re: delta9]
    #4209198 -

Quote:
I am alarmed, simply alarmed, that the only pro voice for this whole endeavor is, apparently, the one who introduced it.


Actually the admins all support this endeavor and zippoz just seemed like the best guy for the job. Here's a quick reality check, this site isn't low key and hasn't been for quite some time now. We've weathered international media coverage due to the Ripper incident, and we receive almost a quarter of a million unique visitors monthly. That's roughly equivalent to being visited by every man, woman and child in Birmingham, Alabama, every month. If we were a city we'd be among the nation's 100 largest. Despite our lack of obscurity, nobody's ever been busted, investigated or even looked at funny by a DEA agent for anything they posted on this site (to the best of my knowledge).

Nobody will force you to be part of any promotional activities which make you uncomfortable, but people are under the mistaken impression that this plan is up for debate. Let us worry about any repercussions since we're the ones who will have to deal with them.

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Re: Is "promotion" really such a good idea? [Re: Ythan]
    #4210382 -

Is this site to the point where the Admins and Mods can do whatever pleases them? Or is this a site where the Admins and Mods are here to serve the community and have the community's best interests at heart?

Was this topic ever open for public discussion previous to its implementation?

A quarter of a million unique visitors - Why do we need more? Bigger is better? I'm for quality, and from what I've seen the quality of this site has diminished as its size has increased.

Maybe we haven't been bothered because we are low key.

I think this promotion idea is not the best for this community. I also resent the response from the Administration,
Quote:
people are under the mistaken impression that this plan is up for debate. Let us worry about any repercussions since we're the ones who will have to deal with them.


You are not the only one's who will have to deal with the repercussions. The community will be affected by any repercussions and therefor anyone who is a part of the community will be affected.

I wouldn't be suprised if money is at the bottom of this scheme. More visitors means the Admins can charge more for advertisement and can gain more advertisors.

I think this idea was not thought through with the interest of the community in mind.

I strongly oppose this move.

Concerned,
Joshua


--------------------
The Shroomery Bookstore

Great books for inquiring minds!

"Life After Death is Saprophytic!"

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Re: Is "promotion" really such a good idea? [Re: Joshua]
    #4210419 -

Let me clear up a misconception. This site is and has always been run at the sole discretion of the administrators. We do our best to listen to members and I think in general we're very responsive to our community. Your confusion over who makes the decisions is a testament to that fact. Nevertheless, there are certain issues which aren't up for debate and this is one of them. Feel free to voice concerns, bitch, moan, whine or complain but in case it's not already perfectly clear, we've decided on this course of action and we plan to go ahead with it despite the fact that some members disagree with us.

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Re: Is "promotion" really such a good idea? [Re: Joshua]
    #4210421 -

His point is that we arent and havent been low key for a long time.

Go to google and type "shrooms" or "magic mushrooms" or "shroomz."

There is nothing low key about this website.


--------------------
./configure --without-sanity --without-logic --without-regret
01100110011101010110001101101011011110010110111101110101
jaded = safe != happy
Were not familly, we are the shroomery, and to some thats thicker than blood.

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Re: Is "promotion" really such a good idea? [Re: Joshua]
    #4210427 -

Joshua said:
I wouldn't be suprised if money is at the bottom of this scheme. More visitors means the Admins can charge more for advertisement and can gain more advertisors.


Definately.


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Re: Is "promotion" really such a good idea? [Re: Joshua]
    #4210433 -

Well, I don't think it's about money, really. The sponsors bring in all the money that the shroomery needs, to my knowledge.

I do agree Ythan was a bit harsh with his post... But then, we have to realize, he is quite correct - if the admins say there is no debate on the subject because they want it to happen regardless, it is going to happen regardless because for all intents and purposes, it is their site; we're just members (and if we don't like it, we can leave).

Personally, I think this isn't something that should go without input from the community, but that's just me.

I am still (as of writing this) waiting for my question from the topic The shroomery Street Team, Members Wanted to be answered:
Quote:
How do you intend to verify that street team members are 18 years old, and how do you intend to enforce these rules on them?


My main concern here is that the shroomery will take some heat because of some under age street team members and I am 100% sure that under age people *will* get flyers, pamphlets and what not that they are supposed to be NOT getting. It's just going to happen, and you know it is.


--------------------
delta9

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Re: Is "promotion" really such a good idea? [Re: blink]
    #4210434 -

You guys really think that's the goal? I don't know, I like to give the admins the benefit of the doubt on the money issue.

Though I do think the whole promotion thing IS somewhat of a bad idea. Let people find the site the way things like lucy find people...stumbling upon one another in a moment of happenstance.


--------------------
Acid doesn't give you truths; it builds machines that push the envelope of perception. Whatever revelations came to me then have dissolved like skywriting. All I really know is that those few years saddled me with a faith in the redemptive potential of the imagination which, however flat, stale and unprofitable the world seems to me now, I cannot for the life of me shake.

-Erik Davis

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Re: Is "promotion" really such a good idea? [Re: Vampire999]
    #4210450 -

Of course money plays a roll.. the stuff people are wanting and what this place really needs to move to the next level.

1. decentralization of information
2. mirrors
3. bigger better hardware
4. redundant hardware

None of this happens by itself. The main idea of this website has always been to grow and spread the information in our mission statement. Reaching out and growing means risks.


--------------------
./configure --without-sanity --without-logic --without-regret
01100110011101010110001101101011011110010110111101110101
jaded = safe != happy
Were not familly, we are the shroomery, and to some thats thicker than blood.

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Re: Is "promotion" really such a good idea? [Re: Vampire999]
    #4210454 -

Thanks for opening it back up.
Vampire999 said:
His point is that we arent and havent been low key for a long time.
Go to google and type "shrooms" or "magic mushrooms" or "shroomz."
There is nothing low key about this website.


But the people coming to this site are SEEKING it out. When you throw things like this in people's faces they are forced to judge it.
I don't think the general public is ready to accept sites like these. You are just asking for intervention.
Joshua's right, money is behind everything. But I don't think you're THINKING about this, too much attention is going to force spores to be illegal, then what do we have and what sponsors do you have.

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Re: Is "promotion" really such a good idea? [Re: OneMoreRobot3021]
    #4210463 -

Money does has something to do with it. It's not the only factor or even the main one, but it's necessary to keep things running and we bust ass for this site, there's nothing wrong with trying to get a little something in return. I'm harsh in my posts because I think it's obnoxious when people who take advantage of our free services and do nothing for the Shroomery decide it's their right to start telling us how to run things. Anyone who knows me knows that I'm a mellow guy who values feedback and takes it to heart. The one time we make a decision without going through an extensive member review process, I expect people to cut us a little slack. Don't think the potential (but unlikely) risks didn't occur to us or that they weren't discussed. People really aren't bringing anything to the table here which hasn't already been hashed out among the admins.

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Re: Is "promotion" really such a good idea? [Re: Vampire999]
    #4210465 -

Vampire999 said:
His point is that we arent and havent been low key for a long time.
There is nothing low key about this website.


Ok, apparently people are skimming my posts :rolleyes:.  I like the current state of affairs, where curious people come through their search engines, ask their questions, and leave.  There's going to be a lot a lot more of those, I anticipate, if the street team does a quarter of the job it should.

Quote:
Go to google and type "shrooms" or "magic mushrooms" or "shroomz."


"shroomz", shroomery is not in top 10 results, "shrooms", shroomery is 1st result, "magic mushrooms", shroomery is 3rd result.  Couple that with you and I both knowing how google works and you know as well as I do that doesn't show the shroomery is not low key.

Perhaps, the error here is that we are talking about different things for low key?  To me, the shroomery is low-key because I can take 100 people I meet outside, ask them if they know what the shroomery is, and maybe 1 or 2 will.  You're going to change that, and by my take, it won't be so low key anymore.


--------------------
delta9

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Re: Is "promotion" really such a good idea? [Re: delta9]
    #4210466 -

I agree full,y we need some sort of AVS for street team members. As for fylers falling into the hands of people under 18. Everything will be done to avoid this. Most events I can possibly imagine any of this going on at would be 18+ events and would be given out inside the event after they have passed through the gates.

There is no way to be 100% certain.. Just like there is no way to be 100% certain we don't have members under the age of 18. All we can do is everything in out power to avoid it as much as possible.


--------------------
./configure --without-sanity --without-logic --without-regret
01100110011101010110001101101011011110010110111101110101
jaded = safe != happy
Were not familly, we are the shroomery, and to some thats thicker than blood.

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
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