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OfflineDaydreamer
journeyman
Registered: 09/07/01
Posts: 57
Loc: Vermont
Last seen: 15 years, 1 month
good idea/continuous cycle
    #405402 - 09/26/01 10:28 PM (15 years, 6 months ago)

a little background: i'm using the shroom wizards grow guide, combined with a few other pieces of other teks to grow for the first time. the result so far is 12 jars with no contams, about 2/3 of the way colonized, in a contam free environment (i will post my whole method upon successful completion - wish me luck)... anyway, my question is this, when i case, i will be crumbling the cakes into marble sized chunks, to make a layer... etc etc. does anyone know if it would be feasible to "innoculate" another jar with one of the "crumbles", and therefore make the process an ongoing one, without having to wait for shrooms to make a sporeprint or syringe? - sorry for the brevity of this, i'm on break at work. ;^)



You took to much man, you took too much... too much...

Edited by Daydreamer on 09/26/01 10:17 PM.



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Offlinejonnyshaggs420
Pooh-Bah

Registered: 08/09/00
Posts: 1,965
Loc: Mid-West
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Re: potentially good idea [Re: Daydreamer]
    #405466 - 09/26/01 11:11 PM (15 years, 6 months ago)

Yes, in sterile conditions it is very possible. I remember seeing a tech somwhere that involved where PF jars were sterilized with wooden dowels placed in them. After they cooled the dowels were removed and filled with colonized substrate. (sterile conditions of course) then left to colonize. I think it was OldTimer's tech.

Yet another reason not to be my neighbor.
For supplies: Dr Bluethumb
For spores: FSR


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OfflineDaydreamer
journeyman
Registered: 09/07/01
Posts: 57
Loc: Vermont
Last seen: 15 years, 1 month
Re: potentially good idea [Re: jonnyshaggs420]
    #405482 - 09/26/01 11:21 PM (15 years, 6 months ago)

i wonder if it is possible to just add the ground up mycelium to the prepared sterile substrate to begin colonization.. (i.e. in the same manner that you innoculate withe a sporeprint) - and how much mycelium is needed. (rather than the dowel method, which may pose more problems than it is worth)

... anybody?

You took to much man, you took too much... too much...


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OfflineChemical_Smile
Making Love WithMy Ego
Registered: 09/20/01
Posts: 2,217
Loc: coming down fast, miles a...
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Re: potentially good idea [Re: Daydreamer]
    #405527 - 09/26/01 11:45 PM (15 years, 6 months ago)

It's definately possible although I don't know what to tell you as far as exactly how much to put in the new jars. That probably has to do with how fast you want the new jars to colonize. Im doing the same thing with rye and I am keeping track of the fastest healthyest jar so that I can use that as my master jar. I want the next batch to be uniformely kick ass!

"For democracy any man would give his only begotten son"


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OfflineGroove_N
newbie
Registered: 09/22/01
Posts: 47
Last seen: 15 years, 3 months
Re: good idea/continuous cycle [Re: Daydreamer]
    #405652 - 09/27/01 01:34 AM (15 years, 6 months ago)

I have done something similar to what you mentioned. While casing a 1/2 pint jar of verm and BRF. I scooped out two spoon full into an awaiting 1/2 pint jar with clean water. I had a larger hole in the middle of the new lid. Because I was using a cooking syringe (1.5oz) for what I call the poor mans mycelium water (lack of a better term). I don't know if there is a tek out there, but this is what I did:
I prepped 6 1/2 pint jars as usual with verm & brf. Then capped with a dry layer of verm. Pasteurized in a pot for 1 hour, then let cool. I also had the 1/2 pint jar with the large hole 3/4 full of water in the pot with lid on. Then I set everything up using the oven tek. I first took the lid off the 1/2 pint jar with the large hole. Then scooped out two scoops from a full colonized jar into the large holed jar of water. I then put the cap on the jar, and finished casing the rest. I then sterilized the large syringe by boiling water and pulling it into the syringe 3 times. I then sterilized the needle with a flame. I then shook up the jar for about 1min. Inserted the syringe and extracted half the fluid (1.5oz). I then inoculated 3 of the jars. Sterilized the syringe needle again and finished the same process too inoculate the other 3 jars. I had full colonization within a week without any contamination.
I may just be lucky. Hope this helps.




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OfflineDaydreamer
journeyman
Registered: 09/07/01
Posts: 57
Loc: Vermont
Last seen: 15 years, 1 month
oven tek [Re: Groove_N]
    #405713 - 09/27/01 02:27 AM (15 years, 6 months ago)

i must say that the oven tek was quite possibly the most useful thing ive ever read relating to shroom cultivation - probably the only reason none of my jars are contam'd.

thanks for the tips about the myco-water.. where out of curiosity did you get the cooking syringe? and would it be possible to use the ones that you order spores in, or is the myco-water too, um, chunky?



You took to much man, you took too much... too much...


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Offlinealuminum_can
addict
Registered: 05/18/01
Posts: 695
Loc: california, orange
Last seen: 14 years, 9 months
Re: good idea/continuous cycle [Re: Daydreamer]
    #405796 - 09/27/01 03:16 AM (15 years, 6 months ago)

i dont know about youre idea, but while reading all these replies i got my own idea?? i guess it is like the honey water tek but it is different, you take nutrient filled water (extra water retrieved while steeping finch seed, or maybe some water mixed with some brf) and then sucking the water into the syringe and sterilizing it in the pc while the jars are sterilizing (to save time) or (i dont think the plastic syringe will go too well in the pc) put the water in a jar with a hole in the lid (with some tape on top of course) and then later sucking it up with the clean syringe. then, make the spore syringe like normal, and let the spores start to colonize while in the syringe. i dont know if the spores will just colonize in the syringe (without any air) but putting nutrient water plus spores that are ready to colonize (since they were in the water) is prolly better that just putting in plain spore water. but since it only usually takes around 2-3 days to see colonizing i dont think it can get any quicker!!!

it begins with an "m" and ends with an "ushroom"

get youre equipment from here!!!
Mushroom Mycology Shop


--------------------
the little kridders of nature; they dont know that thyre ugly!



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OfflineGroove_N
newbie
Registered: 09/22/01
Posts: 47
Last seen: 15 years, 3 months
Re: oven tek [Re: Daydreamer]
    #406013 - 09/27/01 11:47 AM (15 years, 6 months ago)

I know this is not like the honey myco water. It's not supposed to. I just wanted a quick way of INJECTING cakes, as too keep contamination down. While extending my original spore syringe. If anyone is interested in what I used, here is a link that will show you. I did not buy this from them. I got it from a friend, but its the same thing.
Marinade Injector System...
http://www.outdoorcooking.com/store/spices.html



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Offlinejebus2000
Son of God

Registered: 09/10/01
Posts: 152
Loc: Canada
Last seen: 2 years, 11 months
Re: good idea/continuous cycle [Re: Daydreamer]
    #406109 - 09/27/01 01:18 PM (15 years, 6 months ago)

I use a method that uses elements from both the honey Tek and sterile tissue cloning Tek.

I p/c 3 half pint jars (filled with H2O and a teaspoon of honey) for 30 minutes and allow to cool.

I obtain a sample of tissue from a large mushroom using the sterile tissue clonning Tek as a guidline.

Then using the oven Tek. I open each of the three honey jars and place the tissue sample within, put the lids back on and put in a warm dark place for three days (I use a drawer). After three days the jars are colonized with white stringy myco-water that is an exact genetic duplicate of the original. Therfore, onlly capable of growing large, strong and healthy mushrooms. I have found this to be a great method and I recomend it highly.

Cheers,

A BIG thanks to the Sporelab for hosting The Jebus Dehydrator Tek http://www.sporelab.com/jebus200.htm
Contact helpmejebus@hotmail.com


--------------------
Cheers,

A BIG thanks to the Sporelab for hosting The Jebus Dehydrator Tek http://www.sporelab.com/jebus200.htm
Contact [email]helpmejebus@hotmail.com[/email]


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Invisibledjfrog
omgws!!!1!

Registered: 10/23/00
Posts: 3,710
Re: good idea/continuous cycle [Re: jebus2000]
    #406113 - 09/27/01 01:24 PM (15 years, 6 months ago)

Thats a great idea Jebus. Do you put the piece of tissue in whole, or do you shred it somehow?



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Offlinealuminum_can
addict
Registered: 05/18/01
Posts: 695
Loc: california, orange
Last seen: 14 years, 9 months
Re: good idea/continuous cycle [Re: djfrog]
    #406120 - 09/27/01 01:30 PM (15 years, 6 months ago)

i am not exeactly sure about cloning but i know that if you take the "skin" layer of the shrooms cap and then take a piece of the shroom that is underneath the skin and use it to clone then it will work since that piece of the shroom contains millions of spores.

it begins with an "m" and ends with an "ushroom"

get youre equipment from here!!!
Mushroom Mycology Shop


--------------------
the little kridders of nature; they dont know that thyre ugly!



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Offlinejebus2000
Son of God

Registered: 09/10/01
Posts: 152
Loc: Canada
Last seen: 2 years, 11 months
Re: good idea/continuous cycle [Re: djfrog]
    #406121 - 09/27/01 01:31 PM (15 years, 6 months ago)

I put it in whole. It will sink to the bottom...just give the jar an swirl once a day or so (just to mix things up).

I have to stress that sterility is KEY. If you do not have a great deal of experience with keeping you and your work space free on contams. it would be very difficult to have positive results.

Thanks for the positive feedback and I would hope that people would feel free to contact me if they should have any further questions, as I will (and do ) when they arise.



Cheers,

A BIG thanks to the Sporelab for hosting The Jebus Dehydrator Tek http://www.sporelab.com/jebus200.htm
Contact helpmejebus@hotmail.com


--------------------
Cheers,

A BIG thanks to the Sporelab for hosting The Jebus Dehydrator Tek http://www.sporelab.com/jebus200.htm
Contact [email]helpmejebus@hotmail.com[/email]


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OfflineFanaTEK
Slave to theShroom

Registered: 09/19/01
Posts: 447
Loc: Midwest, US
Last seen: 10 years, 1 month
Re: potentially good idea [Re: Daydreamer]
    #406138 - 09/27/01 01:47 PM (15 years, 6 months ago)

A couple of things I have read about using Spawn Masters - first, you wouldn't necessarally want to GRIND the mycelium to put it into another jar - you'd want it to be as healthy as possible (is IS possible to kill it by beating the crap out of it). Just take about a tablespoon out of your master and transfer it in sterile conditions to your next spawn jar... more if you want it to colonize faster... and shake the hell out of it. Next, from what I've read and understand, you should only do this kind of transferring 3 times. After that the strain starts to degrade. If you're using agar, though, you can get around this pretty easily. I honestly haven't tried this myself, but I understand it works fabulously.

FanaTEK



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Offlinejebus2000
Son of God

Registered: 09/10/01
Posts: 152
Loc: Canada
Last seen: 2 years, 11 months
Re: potentially good idea [Re: FanaTEK]
    #406156 - 09/27/01 02:05 PM (15 years, 6 months ago)

I use a thick thread for each jar and it has worked well. I too have given some thought to the possiblility of degradig the strain.
My questiion is would that still occour if I continue to use the myco-water to inoc. new jars of honey? My guess is yes, but does anyone know why? ( or have an educated guess?)


Cheers,

A BIG thanks to the Sporelab for hosting The Jebus Dehydrator Tek http://www.sporelab.com/jebus200.htm
Contact helpmejebus@hotmail.com


--------------------
Cheers,

A BIG thanks to the Sporelab for hosting The Jebus Dehydrator Tek http://www.sporelab.com/jebus200.htm
Contact [email]helpmejebus@hotmail.com[/email]


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OfflineFanaTEK
Slave to theShroom

Registered: 09/19/01
Posts: 447
Loc: Midwest, US
Last seen: 10 years, 1 month
Re: potentially good idea [Re: jebus2000]
    #406241 - 09/27/01 03:21 PM (15 years, 6 months ago)

Well, I read about degrading the strain (I think) in The Mushroom Cultivator. I don't think it went into any specifics, though. The way I figure it, basically what you're doing is using the same single organism and making it live way past the point where it was naturally supposed to. Probably something having to do with the way the cells divide... perhaps when an old cell divides it produces two old cells instead of a new one and an old one. Of course, I'm just talking out of my butt here - I'd have to know a lot more about the way mushroom cells divide to say for sure.
Any learned Mycologists out there?
Perhaps this is a subject for Advanced Cultivation?

FanaTEK



--------------------
Read the FAQ!
Read !


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Invisibledjfrog
omgws!!!1!

Registered: 10/23/00
Posts: 3,710
Re: potentially good idea [Re: FanaTEK]
    #407181 - 09/28/01 03:46 AM (15 years, 6 months ago)

for the home cultivator, I don't think strain degeneration is an issue. I mean, if you get through three generations of liquid innoculant, thats a shitload of jars. Put that stuff in straw, and you'll have more mushrooms than any sane person could want.

(unless in a bout of paranoia you trash your stash. doh!)



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