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Re: When a vegan lectures you on the evils of meat *DELETED* [Re: ummikko]
    #4049591 -

Post deleted by blinkidiot

Reason for deletion: Im sorry



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Re: When a vegan lectures you on the evils of meat [Re: blink]
    #4049610 -

:wtf: For your information: I am not a vegan nor a vegetarian.

edit: didn't notice how old this thread was until now. :blush:
Well, my point still stands.


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"All substances are poisons; there is none which is not a poison. The right dose differentiates a poison and a remedy." -Paracelsius

Edited by ummikko (04/13/05 08:59 AM)

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Re: When a vegan lectures you on the evils of meat [Re: newuser1492]
    #4049616 -

cb9fl said:




Pretty much sums it up


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Re: When a vegan lectures you on the evils of meat [Re: Silversoul]
    #4049708 -

if its perfectly ok for other animals to eat meat, then there's no reason I shouldn't be able to, because I'm just another animal just like them.

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Re: When a vegan lectures you on the evils of meat [Re: fearfect]
    #4049714 -

fearfect said:
if its perfectly ok for other animals to eat meat, then there's no reason I shouldn't be able to, because I'm just another animal just like them.



sure. but is it ok to raise animals in horrendous conditions, not to mention the damage it does to the surrounding environment, just so you can have bacon for breakfast?

i've got nothing at all against eating free-range, ecological meat. personally i would never do it, because it takes like crap and murder rolled up into one greasy sausage. but to raise animals in a factory-like setting for mass-consumption - this is what i'm against.


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Re: When a vegan lectures you on the evils of meat [Re: Krishna]
    #4049720 -

its simply an easier form of hunting. If some other animal figured out how to raise humans in a controlled setting and then slaughter and eat us, I'd be all for it.

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Re: When a vegan lectures you on the evils of meat [Re: fearfect]
    #4049730 -

fearfect said:
if its perfectly ok for other animals to eat meat, then there's no reason I shouldn't be able to, because I'm just another animal just like them.



yes, we are animals. But to justify our actions based on other animals is silly. Aligators eat their young and dogs eat shit. BTW, not all animals eat meat. The Gorilla for example can bench much more than any of us and is a natural fruitarian.

beef?

Edited by shanti (04/13/05 10:10 AM)

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Re: When a vegan lectures you on the evils of meat [Re: shanti]
    #4049741 -

So what you are saying is that we should go imprison aligators

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Re: When a vegan lectures you on the evils of meat [Re: fearfect]
    #4049748 -

fearfect said:
its simply an easier form of hunting.  If some other animal figured out how to raise humans in a controlled setting and then slaughter and eat us, I'd be all for it.



:rotfl: :rotfl:

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Re: When a vegan lectures you on the evils of meat [Re: fearfect]
    #4049749 -

no, try again

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Re: When a vegan lectures you on the evils of meat [Re: shanti]
    #4049751 -

so if its ok for alligators, then why again is it wrong for us?

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Re: When a vegan lectures you on the evils of meat [Re: fearfect]
    #4049760 -

I saw a sarcastic humor site that showed vegetables being thrown around, struck viciously, and cut up. The site said, "Stop abuse of vegetables now!!!".

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Re: When a vegan lectures you on the evils of meat [Re: PS_Cubes]
    #4049777 -

PS_Cubes said:
Humans are made for eating both meat and plants, we're omnivors. Our teeth portray it.



you might be right im not 100% but from what I've read (this and other reports/books) we are only "behavioral" omnivors. When it come to a "natural" diet, looking at our physiology rather than culture is key.

from: http://www.ecologos.org/anatomy.htm
Summary

Facial Muscles

CARNIVORE: Reduced to allow wide mouth gape
HERBIVORE: Well-developed
OMNIVORE: Reduced
HUMAN: Well-developed

Jaw Type

CARNIVORE: Angle not expanded
HERBIVORE: Expanded angle
OMNIVORE: Angle not expanded
HUMAN: Expanded angle

Jaw Joint Location

CARNIVORE: On same plane as molar teeth
HERBIVORE: Above the plane of the molars
OMNIVORE: On same plane as molar teeth
HUMAN: Above the plane of the molars

Jaw Motion

CARNIVORE: Shearing; minimal side-to-side motion
HERBIVORE: No shear; good side-to-side, front-to-back
OMNIVORE: Shearing; minimal side-to-side
HUMAN: No shear; good side-to-side, front-to-back

Major Jaw Muscles

CARNIVORE: Temporalis
HERBIVORE: Masseter and pterygoids
OMNIVORE: Temporalis
HUMAN: Masseter and pterygoids

Mouth Opening vs. Head Size

CARNIVORE: Large HERBIVORE: Small OMNIVORE: Large HUMAN:
Small

Teeth: Incisors

CARNIVORE: Short and pointed
HERBIVORE: Broad, flattened and spade shaped
OMNIVORE: Short and pointed
HUMAN: Broad, flattened and spade shaped

Teeth: Canines

CARNIVORE: Long, sharp and curved
HERBIVORE: Dull and short or long (for defense), or none
OMNIVORE: Long, sharp and curved
HUMAN: Short and blunted

Teeth: Molars

CARNIVORE: Sharp, jagged and blade shaped
HERBIVORE: Flattened with cusps vs complex surface
OMNIVORE: Sharp blades and/or flattened
HUMAN: Flattened with nodular cusps

Chewing

CARNIVORE: None; swallows food whole
HERBIVORE: Extensive chewing necessary
OMNIVORE: Swallows food whole and/or simple crushing
HUMAN: Extensive chewing necessary

Saliva

CARNIVORE: No digestive enzymes
HERBIVORE: Carbohydrate digesting enzymes
OMNIVORE: No digestive enzymes
HUMAN: Carbohydrate digesting enzymes

Stomach Type

CARNIVORE: Simple
HERBIVORE: Simple or multiple chambers
OMNIVORE: Simple
HUMAN: Simple

Stomach Acidity

CARNIVORE: Less than or equal to pH 1 with food in stomach
HERBIVORE: pH 4 to 5 with food in stomach
OMNIVORE: Less than or equal to pH 1 with food in stomach
HUMAN: pH 4 to 5 with food in stomach

Stomach Capacity

CARNIVORE: 60% to 70% of total volume of digestive tract
HERBIVORE: Less than 30% of total volume of digestive tract
OMNIVORE: 60% to 70% of total volume of digestive tract
HUMAN: 21% to 27% of total volume of digestive tract

Length of Small Intestine

CARNIVORE: 3 to 6 times body length
HERBIVORE: 10 to more than 12 times body length
OMNIVORE: 4 to 6 times body length
HUMAN: 10 to 11 times body length

Colon

CARNIVORE: Simple, short and smooth
HERBIVORE: Long, complex; may be sacculated
OMNIVORE: Simple, short and smooth
HUMAN: Long, sacculated

Liver

CARNIVORE: Can detoxify vitamin A
HERBIVORE: Cannot detoxify vitamin A
OMNIVORE: Can detoxify vitamin A
HUMAN: Cannot detoxify vitamin A

Kidney

CARNIVORE: Extremely concentrated urine
HERBIVORE: Moderately concentrated urine
OMNIVORE: Extremely concentrated urine
HUMAN: Moderately concentrated urine

Nails

CARNIVORE: Sharp claws
HERBIVORE: Flattened nails or blunt hooves
OMNIVORE: Sharp claws
HUMAN: Flattened nails

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Re: When a vegan lectures you on the evils of meat [Re: fearfect]
    #4049812 -

fearfect said:
its simply an easier form of hunting.  If some other animal figured out how to raise humans in a controlled setting and then slaughter and eat us, I'd be all for it.



:lol:

Here's something I just dug out of the archives:

Human Cultivation 4.3.2

Tek List-Cultivation
FP dirt cakes
Government Casings
Military multiple flushes
growing tips


Human cultivation is no new endevour, and is used by many as a feasable mass food source for populations. And is favored by many over cow hearding as a food source for true gourmets, or long term planetary travel (I will discuss later). Human are quite good eatting, and very intresting to cultivate. Humans are a much cleaner food source than cattle, whereas they groom themselves given proper setting, and actually flourish exponentially in mass populace. They're also known to fruit in the most contaminated environments. They have even been known to thrive in extream settings creating their own ways to survive such as alaskan eskimos, and the middle east mespotamia, egypt, and south-east asian settings. They are a change of pace from dinosaur, and some claim they can get even larger flushes. 3bAe Dinosaurs tend to flush quickly and die out. It flushes almost as frequently as Forester's 3bAe soil casing culture of some cellulose grain. The 3bAe cattle strain But to the most experienced growers, Humans are the specie of choice. They can grow along side larger predators, and under temperate environments. Next to the mushroom skyskrapers of 12bAe this is one of the most potent sources of sero-lipid trips. A seretonin trip should only be attempted by experienced conisoures!!! (The true bane of all cultivators is when contamination happens by exposure to seretonin blocking recreational drugs. Entire flushes have been lost because of failed gestapo teks. Also see the matrix casing!!)




FP- dirt cake
What do I need?
-The substrate should be rocky, and -pastureized-. I cannot stress this enough. Humans need complex food chains to function unlike the Masta's -Amutherfuckin puddle- tek with most species. While humans are 75% water, this environment is far too rich to grow in. Growing enviro will grow buut produces slimey gnarly flushes, its usually much better to inoculate ontop of a sterelized soil substrate. You can order some very potent genepools some vendors have collected around the 13bAe system (Named for its 13 planets and the 3 separate planetary cultures of it).

-when put with a standard soilbased food chain, humans care for themselves quite nicely. For the largest fruits, they should be harvested often and selectively. Its a well known fact that environment has everything to do with cultivation.

Multiple flush tequnique---

For the same reason we desire humans (because they care for themselves) is also a great inhibiting factor for getting multiple flushes. Humans may actually become a threat, unless killed quickly en mass. Some people claim great success when setting up political structures. Using mexian33's military tek has claimed come of the greatest flushes of all time, if one was looking to just consume for yourself, rather than ugly mass genocides to feed a popullus, but I degress.

Note:: Though it is true that human populations do often destroy themselves, remember my friends that they often do not want to, thus resulting in beautiful genetic flushes given very long time periods through the darwiniaus 'evolution' prinicpal, and because humans are capable of being very high in any given food chain (which is important if you are looking for quality flushes)



Tips-
Notice within a household, the degression in size by birthorder. (1st born is tallest, 2nd is usually close, 3rd born is short) It can be observed in many instances, but none as closely as with the cellulose-sprigs and the chittin-psilolipids. If harvested cleverly, this can almost totally be sidestepped.

Exposure with the species should be minimized!! The females are particularly charming to most any gentic strain, and will grow on you. Humans also rebel and become serious threats to some non-intergalactic growers. But are little to no threat if caught unprepared.

The entertainment tek has resulted in some most desireable improvement in appearance by our test flushes using a multi cultural inoculation, using a military/government casing.

Some talk has been thrown around about using a matrix casing. A digital world totally mechanized, integrating every newborn/human alive in a fake computerized world, while they are grown for their neurochemicals.

http://www.shroomery.org/archives/showfl...true#Post940799


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Once, men turned their thinking over to machines in the hope that this would set them free.
But that only permitted other men with machines to enslave them.

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Re: When a vegan lectures you on the evils of meat [Re: shanti]
    #4049899 -

Quote:
Humans are Omnivores
Adapted from a talk by John McArdle, Ph.D.

Introduction
There are a number of popular myths about vegetarianism that have no scientific basis in fact. One of these myths is that man is naturally a vegetarian because our bodies resemble plant eaters, not carnivores. In fact we are omnivores, capable of either eating meat or plant foods. The following addresses the unscientific theory of man being only a plant eater.
Confusion between Taxonomy and Diet
Much of the misinformation on the issue of man's being a natural vegetarian arises from confusion between taxonomic (in biology, the procedure of classifying organisms in established categories) and dietary characteristics.
Members of the mammalian Order Carnivora may or may not be exclusive meat eaters. Those which eat only meat are carnivores. Dietary adaptations are not limited by a simple dichotomy between herbivores (strict vegetarians) and carnivores (strict meat-eaters), but include frugivores (predominantly fruit), gramnivores (nuts, seeds, etc.), folivores (leaves), insectivores (carnivore-insects and small vertebrates), etc. Is is also important to remember that the relation between the form (anatomy/physiology) and function (behavior) is not always one to one. Individual anatomical structures can serve one or more functions and similar functions can be served by several forms.
Omnivorism
The key category in the discussion of human diet is omnivores, which are defined as generalized feeders, with neither carnivore nor herbivore specializations for acquiring or processing food, and who are capable of consuming and do consume both animal protein and vegetation. They are basically *opportunistic* feeders (survive by eating what is available) with more generalized anatomical and physiological traits, especially the dentition (teeth). All the available evidence indicates that the natural human diet is omnivorous and would include meat. We are not, however, required to consume animal protein. We have a choice.
The Great Apes
There are very few frugivores amongst the mammals in general, and primates in particular. The only apes that are predominantly fruit eaters (gibbons and siamangs) are atypical for apes in many behavioral and ecological respects and eat substantial amounts of vegetation. Orangutans are similar, with no observations in the wild of eating meat.
Gorillas are more typically vegetarian, with less emphasis on fruit. Several years ago a very elegant study was done on the relationship between body size and diet in primates (and some other mammal groups). The only primates on the list with pure diets were the very small species (which are entirely insectivorous) and the largest (which specialize in vegetarian diet). However, the spectrum of dietary preferences reflect the daily food intake needs of each body size and the relative availability of food resources in a tropical forest. Our closest relatives among the apes are the chimpanzees (i.e., anatomically, behaviorally, genetically, and evolutionarily), who frequently kill and eat other mammals (including other primates).
Evidence of Humans as Omnivores
Archeological Record
As far back as it can be traced, clearly the archeological record indicates an omnivorous diet for humans that included meat. Our ancestry is among the hunter/gatherers from the beginning. Once domestication of food sources began, it included both animals and plants.
Cell Types
Relative number and distribution of cell types, as well as structural specializations, are more important than overall length of the intestine to determining a typical diet. Dogs are typical carnivores, but their intestinal characteristics have more in common with omnivores. Wolves eat quite a lot of plant material.
Fermenting Vats
Nearly all plant eaters have fermenting vats (enlarged chambers where foods sits and microbes attack it). Ruminants like cattle and deer have forward sacs derived from remodeled esophagus and stomach. Horses, rhinos, and colobine monkeys have posterior, hindgut sacs. Humans have no such specializations.
Jaws
Although evidence on the structure and function of human hands and jaws, behavior, and evolutionary history also either support an omnivorous diet or fail to support strict vegetarianism, the best evidence comes from our teeth.
The short canines in humans are a functional consequence of the enlarged cranium and associated reduction of the size of the jaws. In primates, canines function as both defense weapons and visual threat devices. Interestingly, the primates with the largest canines (gorillas and gelada baboons) both have basically vegetarian diets. In archeological sites, broken human molars are most often confused with broken premolars and molars of pigs, a classic omnivore. On the other hand, some herbivores have well-developed incisors that are often mistaken for those of human teeth when found in archeological excavations.
Salivary Glands
These indicate we could be omnivores. Saliva and urine data vary, depending on diet, not taxonomic group.
Intestines
Intestinal absorption is a surface area, not linear problem. Dogs (which are carnivores) have intestinal specializations more characteristic of omnivores than carnivores such as cats. The relative number of crypts and cell types is a better indication of diet than simple length. We are intermediate between the two groups.
Conclusion
Humans are classic examples of omnivores in all relevant anatomical traits. There is no basis in anatomy or physiology for the assumption that humans are pre-adapted to the vegetarian diet. For that reason, the best arguments in support of a meat-free diet remain ecological, ethical, and health concerns.
[Dr. McArdle is a vegetarian and currently Scientific Advisor to The American Anti-Vivisection Society. He is an anatomist and a primatologist.]




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"I have no valid complaint against hustlers. No rational bitch. But the act of selling is repulsive to me. I harbor a secret urge to whack a salesman in the face, crack his teeth and put red bumps around his eyes." -Hunter S Thompson
http://phluck.is-after.us

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Re: When a vegan lectures you on the evils of meat [Re: trendal]
    #4049909 -

Geez, when I am being preached at I just imagine myself bashing this asshole's head in. So I cannot imagine, what you violent meateaters would do to someone preaching animal rights. Jk

I went veggie when I became an adult. I was kind of a bloodthirsty kid. I hunted a lot but also was known to make wanton/unneeded kills at times. When I became an adult I realized I regretted every single thing I ever killed.

Oh but I realize that human impact upon the environment necessitates controlling animal populations.

But humans better evolve into vegetarians soon, or at least be complacent as vegetarians.
There just aint enough land on this planet for everyone to eat meat. Meat farming is very inefficient use of land for food. I mean think about it, in most cases, you need a ANOTHER sect of land without animals, to grow food for the animals. Grain that you could have eaten anyway. And if you don't like plant protein, fungi are far more efficient protein produces than animals.

Even if you eat free-range organic meat, cows have been bred since the beginning of agriculture to have high fat content.

And anyway, as I see it from my own personal perspective, you cannot slit the throat you shouldnt swallow the steak.

Edited by YidakiMan (04/13/05 11:13 AM)

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Re: When a vegan lectures you on the evils of meat [Re: MOTH]
    #4049937 -

EllemyshShade said:
I just got a hell of a lecture from some self-righteous vegan about how terrible it is to eat meat, and how everyone shouldn't do it. I mean, she was really going after me.

Very annoying. Why the fuck can't she just let me eat my chicken in peace? Stupid bitch.

I don't care if she wants to be a vegan, but she shouldn't try so hard to push her ideals onto others. I hope I never see her again.




did they force you to participate the lecture?
ofcourse she would tell you not to eat meat,lecture was about becoming a vegan right?
i don't understand why you are so agressive about that?
maybe because you eat meat?
WE ARE WHAT WE EAT

i'm proud to be a vegetarian.
and i also suggest people not to eat meat.

Any food which entails violence(killing) in its source is not to be taken.At one end of the continuum is meat-the preparation of which obviously includes the killing of an animal which has a rudimentary self-consciousness.It thus experiences fear and releases into its system adrenalin and other chemicals from the endocrine glands which are not helpful for meditation
quated from 'be here now'


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lucidal expansion

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Re: When a vegan lectures you on the evils of meat [Re: YidakiMan]
    #4049943 -

The only time I get angry at vegans and animal rights activists is when they tout their belief along with saying their lifestyle is the most healthy way to live.

Most of the time it is a 90lb long haired androgenous *something* with more protein on the top of *its* head than *its* entire body.


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I am in love with Acidic_Sloth


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Re: When a vegan lectures you on the evils of meat [Re: butterflydawn]
    #4049958 -

did they force you to participate the lecture?
ofcourse she would tell you not to eat meat,lecture was about becoming a vegan right?


Uh, she's not talking about a lecture at school, she's talking about someone telling her specifically to stop eating meat.

i don't understand why you are so agressive about that?
maybe because you eat meat?
WE ARE WHAT WE EAT


Yeah, we're meat.

I'm proud to be a vegetarian.
and i also suggest people not to eat meat.


I'm proud to eat meat, and I suggest you do the same.

It thus experiences fear and releases into its system adrenalin and other chemicals from the endocrine glands which are not helpful for meditation

Thank you Ram Das, for completely making that up.


--------------------
"I have no valid complaint against hustlers. No rational bitch. But the act of selling is repulsive to me. I harbor a secret urge to whack a salesman in the face, crack his teeth and put red bumps around his eyes." -Hunter S Thompson
http://phluck.is-after.us

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Re: When a vegan lectures you on the evils of meat [Re: shanti]
    #4049998 -

Gorillas aren't only fruitarians, they eat shoots, leaves, and insects.


--------------------
"I have no valid complaint against hustlers. No rational bitch. But the act of selling is repulsive to me. I harbor a secret urge to whack a salesman in the face, crack his teeth and put red bumps around his eyes." -Hunter S Thompson
http://phluck.is-after.us

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