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Offlinecalishroomer
Looking For Lunatic In TheGrass!

Registered: 12/28/02
Posts: 117
Last seen: 18 years, 11 months
ethics of eating meat.......(continued from here more pix)
    #1269797 - 02/02/03 01:06 AM (18 years, 11 months ago)


origionaly posted by "blaze2"

"okay i havent been here long or anything but i have nothing against hunting as long as most of the animal is used in someway. what i do have a problem with is the rich bastards in thier humvees just going around killing for the sake of killing to put the head on the wall. angry i have nothing against vegaterians i dont see how someone lives that way but its not my place to judge. also i think that that cali was just trying to make a joke and this whole thing was taken way too seriously. look how he put in the ident format. its not like he just went "hehe look what i shot" on a final note this was the title of an article in the new discovery. "oh deer exploding populations of white-tailed are striping our forests of life" man has kept their populations in check for years then we all went and saw bambie now people are feeding them and babying them while their populations explode. just something to think about. "

blaze2, this is my point EXACTLY. i wasnt trying to rag on anyone, i was just having phun!~!~!~

ive seen articles like the "exploding populations" ones a million times. i had an ethical teacher when it came to hunting (my father). i learned super early that if your going to hunt it and kill it, to eat it, and not let it go to waste. everyone here should be aware that i am disabled, and when it comes to stuff like this, and my limited income, it really takes up the slack, as does the wild edibles i collect along the line. the two deer in the origional picture have lasted
me about 2 monthes so far, with about another 2-3 months to go. look at it from a monetary value alone if you will. average price of beef in our stores today is 3.99 -6.99 a pound. even good hamburger (something that doesnt seem like its 50% fat and shrinks to nothing when you cook it) averages around 2.99 a pound. ok lets look at it this way.if you take say, the 2.99 a lb hamburger and ad that up in lbs by what the two deers dressed weight is (100X2=200) then devide that by 2.99 ( the price for the hamburger) your looking at 598.00 in hamburger all by itself ( if the deer were hamburger). luck would have it that deer, if prosessed properly have the same cuts of meat beef do (for the most part) i get ribs,ball tip roasts ,tri-tips,steaks,ect. from the deer. i do all of my own butchering,so i dont incurr the extra cost (its easy). also, if you know how to prosess the venison (deer meat) to can get rid of all of the game taste so many people doslike. i bet anyone i can cook them venison and they would never eer know unless i told them it wasnt beef....

now on to the article mentioned above by blaze2:

blaze2...

i know what your saying when you talk about the deer explosion story. ....without giving up my location exactly, i can tell you that within 30 miles of my house theres an area (richy rich) called "kelly's ridge"..... this is on one of the largest man made lakes in california , lake oroville, and it sports the largest man made dam , oroville dam. for several years the deer have become a menace in the area. there are literally THOUSANDS of deer. in peoples front and back yards. eating there garden. eating there flowers. sleeping in there garages. you can drive down the street there and have to honk your horn to get them out of the way, then they just stand there and look at you. you know why?.....the whole area is made up of retired seniors......a long time debate here is that on one hand they scream and holler " the deer are eating us out of house and home" then when the DFG (dept. of fish and game) take notice, and offer to catch and move the deer ( not kill them) the old people holler "NO, THESE DEER ARE OUR PETS"...YOU SEE THE PROBLEM.

copied from a story located at

http://folkbird.net/ebb/Rex/roadrunr.html


But I waited, and waited, until almost five, and nothing had happened. I began to think I was on a wild goose - er, roadrunner - chase after all. It seemed like such an unlikely place for a bird of the open spaces. It was an expensive neighborhood, with finely tended lawns and landscaping, quite out of the logical habitat of a roadrunner. It seemed everything was there except cactus, which is the plant most often associated with roadrunners. I did see fan palm, exotic trimmed hedges, and a host of other imported species. Two bold deer walked down the wide street, and picked out a juicy yard for nibbling. Then I knew what Ron Scherer meant when he said, rather annoyed, that deer ate everything he planted on Kelly Ridge.


anyway, im glad that theres someone else out there that sees my point.


--------------------
"The Lunatic Is In The Grass!!"


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Offlineamnesiaseizure
Mr
Male

Registered: 08/29/00
Posts: 282
Loc: Certainly not here.
Last seen: 11 years, 3 months
Re: ethics of eating meat.......(continued from here more pix) [Re: calishroomer]
    #1269968 - 02/02/03 05:01 AM (18 years, 11 months ago)

But when it comes down to it, nutritionally we don't need to eat animals at all.

The vast majority of people consuming meat do so because they enjoy it. Does this mean that your personal satisfaction of a meat based meal overides the suffering the animal had to go through for you to get it? If it's a 'yes' then sorry, but how could you be more selfish?

That is if you agree that animals do actually suffer by being used in this way...


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Offlinejoe666
The ReverendToke DBK
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Registered: 09/13/01
Posts: 20,079
Loc: Southern by grace of God
Last seen: 1 day, 22 hours
Re: ethics of eating meat.......(continued from here more pix) [Re: amnesiaseizure]
    #1270145 - 02/02/03 07:10 AM (18 years, 11 months ago)

A well placed kill shot and animals don't suffer.

Have you ever even hunted??

I got my first gun at 6, I've hunted all my life. the animals I kill don't suffer.
When i shoot them in the heart, they get a rush of adrenalin,that keesps them from feeling pain, they either run 20 to 30 yards then fall over dead or drop dead.

and you know what FUCk animals, GOD put them here for us to eat.
says so in the bible.
If he didn't want us to eat animals, they wouldn't be so tasty.


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"A politician is like a baby's diaper, it should be changed often and for the same reason"-Coy Turner Sr.

"what is a weed, a plant whose virtues have not yet been discovered"--Ralph Waldo Emerson

"I'm sippin Hennessy, riding on my muthafucking enemies" -Meek Mill.



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OfflineKilljoy
TheHyperdimensionalSlug

Registered: 01/28/03
Posts: 865
Last seen: 7 years, 4 months
Re: ethics of eating meat.......(continued from here more pix) [Re: amnesiaseizure]
    #1270211 - 02/02/03 07:37 AM (18 years, 11 months ago)

Selfishness is defending those "poor defenseless animals" because it makes you feel warm and fuzzy inside.  All you care about is feeling good about yourself, you're addicted...  Face it. :grin:


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OfflineJust a Punk
Shithawk

Registered: 12/26/00
Posts: 1,145
Loc: Canada
Last seen: 17 years, 1 month
Re: ethics of eating meat.......(continued from here more pix) [Re: amnesiaseizure]
    #1270461 - 02/02/03 09:11 AM (18 years, 11 months ago)

I eat meat, and I enjoy it.

Human beings are on the top of the food chain. We are also omnivores. It is natural to eat meat.

I'm not a huge fan of the beef industry. It is destroying the planet. So are cars. Everyone who drives a car is a selfish asshole?


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-------------------------------------------------
:B


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Invisiblespud
I'm so fly.

Registered: 10/07/02
Posts: 44,410
Re: ethics of eating meat.......(continued from here more pix) [Re: joe666]
    #1270479 - 02/02/03 09:17 AM (18 years, 11 months ago)

fuck god, what does he know


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InvisibleSenor_Doobie
Snake Pit Champion
 User Gallery

Registered: 08/12/99
Posts: 22,678
Loc: Trump Train
Re: ethics of eating meat.......(continued from here more pix) [Re: spud]
    #1270923 - 02/02/03 12:25 PM (18 years, 11 months ago)

All it comes down to is meat tastes good and its no one else's business.

It's between me and the cow, man.


--------------------
"America: Fuck yeah!" -- Alexthegreat

“Nothing can now be believed which is seen in a newspaper. Truth itself becomes suspicious by being put into that polluted vehicle. The real extent of this state of misinformation is known only to those who are in situations to confront facts within their knowledge with the lies of the day.”  -- Thomas Jefferson

The greatest sin of mankind is ignorance.

The press takes [Trump] literally, but not seriously; his supporters take him seriously, but not literally. --Salena Zeto (9/23/16)


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OfflineFred Garvin
Male Prostitute
Registered: 09/24/02
Posts: 1,657
Loc: The northern part of sout...
Last seen: 15 years, 12 days
Re: ethics of eating meat.......(continued from here more pix) [Re: Senor_Doobie]
    #1271088 - 02/02/03 01:34 PM (18 years, 11 months ago)

I'm a proud member of PETA.





People Eating Tasty Animals


--------------------


The above statements are just the incoherent babblings of your friendly neighborhood Cracker!

Shur drinkin kils brane sells--but only the week ones!!


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OfflineMeph
Synesthesiac

Registered: 09/01/02
Posts: 1,568
Loc: Qu?bec
Last seen: 17 years, 4 months
Re: ethics of eating meat.......(continued from here more pi [Re: spud]
    #1271257 - 02/02/03 03:18 PM (18 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

fuck god, what does he know 




Somebody's going to hell!

:grin:


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I'm a bipedal carbon-based pseudo-random number generator.

Demonstration: 152.



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Invisiblesilversoul7
Chill the FuckOut!
 User Gallery

Registered: 10/10/02
Posts: 27,301
Loc: mndfreeze's puppet army
Re: ethics of eating meat.......(continued from here more pix) [Re: amnesiaseizure]
    #1271310 - 02/02/03 03:41 PM (18 years, 11 months ago)

I'm a human being: a primate, and an omnivore. I have canines for a reason. I don't see these animal rights people telling lions not to eat gazelles.


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"It is dangerous to be right when the government is wrong."--Voltaire


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Offlineenotake2
Stop Bush's war
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Registered: 01/30/03
Posts: 1,457
Loc: Comfy chair in my lounger...
Last seen: 10 years, 7 months
Re: ethics of eating meat.......(continued from here more pix) [Re: Killjoy]
    #1271435 - 02/02/03 04:41 PM (18 years, 11 months ago)

Selfishness is defending those "poor defenseless animals" because it makes you feel warm and fuzzy inside.

Last I heard, that was selflessness. I reckon if animals had a voice it would be much more difficult to for people to feel good about eating meat. Because people don't have to do the killing themselves they seem to be able to detach themselves from the fact that the animal was murdered senselessly for us to eat. I say senselessly because we can get all the protein and iron from other foods of which there are lots and lots of yummy ones. Studies show vegetarians are not deficient in iron, and are healthier than meat eaters eg. much less likely to get cancer or dementia. I gave up meat 6 months ago and I don't miss it a bit.

Other good reasons for not eating meat are environmental. Grazing animals take up a larger area of land than growing plants. If we used all the space on this planet devoted to grazing cattle for growing plants we would be able to feed all the people in the world.

By the way, apparently meat has an amount of adrenalin in it which may be related to aggression seen in people who eat a lot of meat. The adrenalin is present because of the terror the animal felt before being slaughtered.


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Computer games don't affect kids. I mean if Pacman affected our generation as kids, we'd all be running around in a darkened room, munching pills and listening to repetitive electronic music.

"Being bitter and hateful is like drinking a vial of poison and hoping the other person gets sick" FreakQLibrium

"My motto from here on out is: If someone or something (including me) in my life is conducting themselves in such a way that they can be seen on Jerry Springer, it's time to take out the garbage!!! When you stop taking their behaviour personally and see their antics as a true reflection on their character, it becomes absolutely nauseating." Anon. on abusive relationships.


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Invisiblebert
bodhi

Registered: 10/14/02
Posts: 2,819
Loc: state
Re: ethics of eating meat.......(continued from here more pix) [Re: enotake2]
    #1271505 - 02/02/03 05:10 PM (18 years, 11 months ago)

Since when does eating meat cause dementia?! Do you think its wrong for other animals to be carnivorous? To me, the vegetarian argument doesn't make a bit of sense. If you were out in nature, I can guarantee if a predator saw you, it wouldn't hesitate to jump on your back, claw out your eyes, bite off your head, and devour your entrails. That's the way the food chain works. And animals don't have a vioce for a reason, man. It's called conciousness, something they would require for me to feel bad about eating them.


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Persons denying the existence of robots may be robots themselves.


Edited by bert (02/02/03 05:12 PM)


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OfflinePhluck
Carpal Tunnel
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Registered: 04/11/99
Posts: 11,394
Loc: Canada
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Re: ethics of eating meat.......(continued from here more pix) [Re: calishroomer]
    #1271520 - 02/02/03 05:18 PM (18 years, 11 months ago)

The reason vegetarians are healthier on average is probably because they spend more time thinking about their health and eating habits. There are lots of people who eat meat who are very healthy.

Eating meat is natural. No matter what kind of silliness is on the PETA website, our bodies are designed to process meat. Other animals hunt and eat meat, and they do it without any respect for the feelings of their prey.

I eat meat, and I enjoy it. I think I should be fed to animals when I die, it's only fair.

With that said, the conditions in the modern slaughterhouse are definately unpleasant. Not only are the animals treated horribly, but the workers there are working under what are likely the most deplorable conditions in any industry.


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"I have no valid complaint against hustlers. No rational bitch. But the act of selling is repulsive to me. I harbor a secret urge to whack a salesman in the face, crack his teeth and put red bumps around his eyes." -Hunter S Thompson
http://phluck.is-after.us


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Offlineenotake2
Stop Bush's war
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Registered: 01/30/03
Posts: 1,457
Loc: Comfy chair in my lounger...
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Re: ethics of eating meat.......(continued from here more pix) [Re: bert]
    #1271582 - 02/02/03 05:43 PM (18 years, 11 months ago)

And animals don't have a vioce for a reason, man. It's called conciousness,

Animals do have feelings man. They experience pain. We can't see inside the head of another human - we have to infer their feelings of pain from their behaviour and we can measure their physiological reactions. Well animals exhibit the same behaviour and physiological reactions. They writhe, scream, try to avoid the source of the elicitation etc, and they have the same physiological reactions - increased heartrate, increased blood pressure, sweating and pupil dilation. Feelings are largely a function of the diencephalon which is well developed in most animal species.

They have an awareness of themselves and others. There is no criteria of consciousness that people have set, which hasn't been demonstrated in animals. Dolphins recognise themselves in mirrors, apes and elephants grieve, apes and dolphins socially interact, many animals create mental maps, many animals are keenly aware of the higherarchy within their group, etc.

Humans don't only eat meat - we don't need it like other animals do, therefore we can make a choice about whether we eat it or not.

Here is a link on the relationship between meat eating and dementia


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Computer games don't affect kids. I mean if Pacman affected our generation as kids, we'd all be running around in a darkened room, munching pills and listening to repetitive electronic music.

"Being bitter and hateful is like drinking a vial of poison and hoping the other person gets sick" FreakQLibrium

"My motto from here on out is: If someone or something (including me) in my life is conducting themselves in such a way that they can be seen on Jerry Springer, it's time to take out the garbage!!! When you stop taking their behaviour personally and see their antics as a true reflection on their character, it becomes absolutely nauseating." Anon. on abusive relationships.


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OfflineBavet
Sensitive StonedRebel

Registered: 12/12/02
Posts: 383
Last seen: 9 years, 10 months
Re: ethics of eating meat.......(continued from here more pix) [Re: enotake2]
    #1271616 - 02/02/03 05:54 PM (18 years, 11 months ago)

Animals are yummy and i eat them daily :smile: In fact I have even killed alot of animals I have eaten. I feel no guilt and will glady do it again n again till I die :smile:

Becides Mushrooms were made to go with steak hehehe 


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"~Dream as if you'll live forever....live as if you'll die today~ James Dean"


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Offlineenotake2
Stop Bush's war
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Registered: 01/30/03
Posts: 1,457
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Re: ethics of eating meat.......(continued from here more pix) [Re: Bavet]
    #1271629 - 02/02/03 05:59 PM (18 years, 11 months ago)

So do you kick your dog when you've got the shits too?


--------------------
Computer games don't affect kids. I mean if Pacman affected our generation as kids, we'd all be running around in a darkened room, munching pills and listening to repetitive electronic music.

"Being bitter and hateful is like drinking a vial of poison and hoping the other person gets sick" FreakQLibrium

"My motto from here on out is: If someone or something (including me) in my life is conducting themselves in such a way that they can be seen on Jerry Springer, it's time to take out the garbage!!! When you stop taking their behaviour personally and see their antics as a true reflection on their character, it becomes absolutely nauseating." Anon. on abusive relationships.


Edited by enotake2 (02/02/03 06:21 PM)


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Offlinesirreal
devoid
Registered: 01/11/03
Posts: 1,775
Loc: In the borderlands
Last seen: 14 years, 8 months
Re: ethics of eating meat.......(continued from here more pix) [Re: enotake2]
    #1272479 - 02/03/03 02:24 AM (18 years, 11 months ago)

A diet high in fat and protein and low in carbohydrates has been proven to lower weight, reduce high blood pressure, eliminate heart disease, Cure diabetes,etc.

I eat almost nothing but meat and am healthier than I have ever been! I lost 43 pounds in 3 months and have lowered my blood pressure to normal levels.I have much more energy than I ever had before.

Someone very close to me had blood sugar levels upwards of 300 on a regular basis. This person was shooting up with ungodly amounts of insulin 3-6 times per day! Eating meat brought blood sugar levels to near normal and allowed her to cut the insulin to 1 shot per day. She will be off of the insulin soon.

I do eat veggies as well, But meat is my food.  Meat has improved my life. :smile:


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I may not always tell the truth, but atleast I'm honest
-----------

I see what everyone is saying. It is so hard to form an opinion when you see both sides so clearly!


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Offlinecalishroomer
Looking For Lunatic In TheGrass!

Registered: 12/28/02
Posts: 117
Last seen: 18 years, 11 months
Re: ethics of eating meat.......(continued from here more pix) [Re: enotake2]
    #1272484 - 02/03/03 02:32 AM (18 years, 11 months ago)

face facts....

WE ARE THE TOP OF THE FOOD CHAIN.......

everyone eats meat, even poor defenseless vegitarians (they just dont know it)..in the wild, there are no such things as "true" vegitarians. even the animals that primarilly eat plant matter run across an ocassional catapillar or 2. i really dont think they stop feeding to remove them before they shove the leaves and plants into there mouths, and contrary to popular belief by veg people, even the poor defensless lillte worms are MEAT. you snivel about the animals feelings, an esentially what you say is plants have no feelings. THATS BULLSHIT. plants respond in different ways to different stimuli just as animals do. they respond to cold, heat, music, ECT. do you think just because plants dont have nerve endings and brains like we do they dont feel stuff?...bullshit. there are several PLANTS that are canivorous just like us (they just dont eat beef ect). the venus fly trap is one. it secreats a special enzyme in its traps to attract flys and other insects.
it has special hair like sensors that detetect movment , and upon detecting it has a juicy morsel in its trap, it shuts and DIGESTS the little bugger, just as we would a big phat piece of prime rib.  the pitcher plant also eats meat. it has liquid in the bottom of its vase shaped body that attracts bugs, they fall in,drown, and ARE DIGESTED FOR FOOD.as far as  the suffering of animals when there killed. they do , on occasion suffer. thats part of life.every living thing on earth suffers one time or another. dont believe that they suffer as much as they do in areas that are overpopulated ,WHEN THEY STARVE TO DEATH from lack of food.in my opinion,  that would be worse than mis-guiding your bullet and making a non-instantanious death shot. did you know that there have been cases of deer actually being canabalistic in some circumstances?....

i think its pretty shallow of a vergitarian to judge a meat eater just on the premis that the animal "suffered".....i dont understand why they would feel that the veggy there eating didnt suffer when it was eather cut or pulled from the field. also, some veggys and fruit ARE STILL ALIVE WHEN YOU EAT THEM. lets look at a pineapple for instance. are you aware that you can cut the top off of a pineapple, treat it right, plant it, and it will grow?......HMMMM......doesnt this mean its still alive when you eat it?.....i would think so.....i dont know one vegitarian who doesnt eat yogurt, AND ITS ACTUALLY LIVE CUTURES. so, in my opinion, by eating it, your eating aLIVING entity.....how does the yogurt feel when it hits your stomach acid?.....does it have pain sensors?.....i really dont know. it sounds to me like its ok then to eat something as long as it doesnt have a mind of its own.....


everythings alive on this earth, even the soil you walk on, and the water you drink out of your faucet (to some extent i should say)

in my opinion ( and remeber, opinions are like assholes, everyones got one) its wrong for anyone to judge anyone for what they do, or how they survive when you , as a human being, are incapable of even judging yourself.

i really enjoyed getting up this am and finding so many replies to this post!!.......made my whole entire day! :laugh:


--------------------
"The Lunatic Is In The Grass!!"


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Offlinesirreal
devoid
Registered: 01/11/03
Posts: 1,775
Loc: In the borderlands
Last seen: 14 years, 8 months
Re: ethics of eating meat.......(continued from here more pix) [Re: calishroomer]
    #1272874 - 02/03/03 06:44 AM (18 years, 11 months ago)

I don't think vegetables can feel pain.They do not have any nerves. I'm on your side when it comes to eating meat,but let's be real.


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I may not always tell the truth, but atleast I'm honest
-----------

I see what everyone is saying. It is so hard to form an opinion when you see both sides so clearly!


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Offlineamnesiaseizure
Mr
Male

Registered: 08/29/00
Posts: 282
Loc: Certainly not here.
Last seen: 11 years, 3 months
Re: ethics of eating meat.......(continued from here more pix) [Re: sirreal]
    #1273178 - 02/03/03 08:21 AM (18 years, 11 months ago)

I'm sorry but none of you seem to have the first idea about this issue. You're right, it does make me feel pretty good to be vegan but then so does not pissing my mates off or being good to my girlfriend. Are you seriuosly gonna go for the total lack of altruism argument?

There can be no doubt that animals feel pain. Just check their reactions to shoving a pin up their arse. They look like they're enjoying it? no.

This whole thing about being at the top of the food chain is just a smoke screen too. We are the most highly evolved creatures on the planet and with that comes the ability to empathise. With this we can imagine the effect we have on other sentient beings and alter our actions accordingly. Just because we stand so tall does not mean we should abuse it. To say that we ARE omnivorous is to deny evolution. It is a choice and can be unmade. As long as you don't live in a country where there is a lack of vegetable based foods then you have no excuse for the harm being done to the animals you consume. ALL the nutrients and vitamins you need can be got from a plant based diet and there is an enormous amount of evidence - some from top nutritional experts - that say a vegan diet is way healthier than a meat based one.

I was shocked to see a reference to God being thrown in as well. If you actually want to follow the bible to the letter then you should understand that God made us overseers of the planet and all his creatures. Does this really condone keeping them on hormones in the smallest space possible for the highest profit? Looking at them in terms of monetary value and the way they taste instead of seeing them as individuals with their own experience of the world? I think he would be dissapointed. But i agree - fuck god.

It also amuses me that those who eat meat know fairly little about the issues surrounding it whereas most vegetarians/vegans have heard BOTH sides of the argument, considered them and come to the decision they see best. Which, in most cases, is changing their diet.

It was Einstein who said that how far one can call a populous 'civilised' depends on how well they treat their animals. I think we're failing by a long way.

Really though, I don't want to be flamed - it's dull - but i AM genuinely interested in hearing a well structured argument FOR eating animals that doesn't involve the notion that they don't suffer. That idea is just too ridiculous to consider.

Speak to y'all soon!!!....



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Offlineamnesiaseizure
Mr
Male

Registered: 08/29/00
Posts: 282
Loc: Certainly not here.
Last seen: 11 years, 3 months
Re: ethics of eating meat.......(continued from here more pix) [Re: bert]
    #1273191 - 02/03/03 08:24 AM (18 years, 11 months ago)

bert. if i was in a jungle with nothing to eat but animals then i would. you're right, it's about survival. But we don't need to this in todays society. we have the technology and means to get our hands on enough of everything to be healthy.

are you really saying that animals don't have a consciousness? This is about as ridiculous as arguing that they have the same degree of it as we do!!


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Offlinesirreal
devoid
Registered: 01/11/03
Posts: 1,775
Loc: In the borderlands
Last seen: 14 years, 8 months
Re: ethics of eating meat.......(continued from here more pix) [Re: amnesiaseizure]
    #1274271 - 02/03/03 01:17 PM (18 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

.Really though, I don't want to be flamed - it's dull - but i AM genuinely interested in hearing a well structured argument FOR eating animals that doesn't involve the notion that they don't suffer. That idea is just too ridiculous to consider.





I am not trying to be argumentative, but I would like to hear a "well structured argument" against eating animals! Eating meat is healthy and natural,convince me otherwise if you can. But I know the truth behind most of societies dietary problems, and it is not meat!


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I may not always tell the truth, but atleast I'm honest
-----------

I see what everyone is saying. It is so hard to form an opinion when you see both sides so clearly!


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Re: ethics of eating meat.......(continued from here more pix) [Re: amnesiaseizure]
    #1274394 - 02/03/03 02:00 PM (18 years, 11 months ago)

You know, I saw some show recently on the discovery channel where one thing they talked about was the theory that an increase in the amount of fish in our diets is one thing that contributed to our large brains, so from an evolutionary standpoint, it makes sense to eat certain types of meat.


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Re: ethics of eating meat.......(continued from here more pix) [Re: amnesiaseizure]
    #1274525 - 02/03/03 02:46 PM (18 years, 11 months ago)

So you're saying that because of technology, that we now have a moral obligation to not kill or eat animals where previously it would have been ok? What is so special about advances in technology that it should suddenly make us alter the way we have been living for hundreds of thousands of years? And, yes, I do think that animals lack conciousness. If you don't believe me, go ask your dog, he'll tell you the same thing.


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Re: ethics of eating meat.......(continued from here more pix) [Re: bert]
    #1275634 - 02/03/03 08:27 PM (18 years, 11 months ago)

did you read my post on animal consciousness?


--------------------
Computer games don't affect kids. I mean if Pacman affected our generation as kids, we'd all be running around in a darkened room, munching pills and listening to repetitive electronic music.

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Re: ethics of eating meat.......(continued from here more pix) [Re: silversoul7]
    #1275641 - 02/03/03 08:28 PM (18 years, 11 months ago)

But we're evolved now!


--------------------
Computer games don't affect kids. I mean if Pacman affected our generation as kids, we'd all be running around in a darkened room, munching pills and listening to repetitive electronic music.

"Being bitter and hateful is like drinking a vial of poison and hoping the other person gets sick" FreakQLibrium

"My motto from here on out is: If someone or something (including me) in my life is conducting themselves in such a way that they can be seen on Jerry Springer, it's time to take out the garbage!!! When you stop taking their behaviour personally and see their antics as a true reflection on their character, it becomes absolutely nauseating." Anon. on abusive relationships.


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Re: ethics of eating meat.......(continued from here more pix) [Re: enotake2]
    #1275699 - 02/03/03 08:44 PM (18 years, 11 months ago)

  Well, I checked out your article about meat eating demented people.  I'd like to point out the study is posted on the 'soybean website'.  Also, it is an extract from a pre-liminary study that was followed by a contradictory unmatched sub-study in which it was found there was no measurable difference in dementia between meat and non-meat eaters. 
  Also, this study was published 10 years ago.  If meat really caused massive dementia in the populous, don't you think the findings of this study would have become wide-spread and publicized?  And since when is 4 or more times a week considered 'heavy meat eaters'?  95 percent of people I know eat meat 7 days a week.  And not one has ever become demented as a result.
  It is obvious this study was done with an intent behind it.  The interpretation of the study makes all the difference.  I am a psychology major, so I will discuss this with my professor and see what the kind of information is out now.  But frankly, I think this study is faulty and the idea of eating giving dementia doesn't make sense evolutionarily either.  We evolved to eat meat, thats why we have incisors.  If eating meat resulted in 9 times as much dementia as a vegetarian diet, then we would have a large amount of non-functioning human organisms which is detrimental to the overall health and well-being of the society.

Note: Lumen Foods is the world leader in replacement animal products. No wonder the study came out with the results it did.  They stand to gain a huge economic profit by slandering the good name of 'meat'. :crazy:


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Edited by bert (02/03/03 08:48 PM)


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Re: ethics of eating meat.......(continued from here more pix) [Re: amnesiaseizure]
    #1275840 - 02/03/03 10:02 PM (18 years, 11 months ago)

Of course animals feel pain! It would be rediculous to claim that they don't.


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Offlinemotatraehrehtom
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Re: ethics of eating meat.......(continued from here more pix) [Re: sirreal]
    #1275886 - 02/03/03 10:24 PM (18 years, 11 months ago)

I never understood the argument that you shouldn't eat meat because you can live, and be healthy without eating meat. That's not really saying much, and I think for the most part, people don't eat meat because it's healthy, they eat it because it's tasty. Also, the idea of humans being so very advanced that they should have some moral outrage about eating meat is just ridiculous. Humans, no matter how smart, or advanced, are still very primal creatures. I personally am not the type of person to get up in arms about anything, but if I were, I think I might chose something slightly more important than animals being killed to help sustain human life (regardless to the fact that they don't have to be consumed to sustain human life, that is still the purpose of eating meat).


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Re: ethics of eating meat.......(continued from here more pix) [Re: bert]
    #1275984 - 02/03/03 11:08 PM (18 years, 11 months ago)

You're right. The information on the internet is not always reliable, and I agree with you that one study is not enough to base conclusions on and that the people who did the study could have had vested interests. I did a quick search on Medline (cd rom database of published academic medical research) and it appears it is a pretty understudied area. Though, of the handful of studies that do exist, more of them found a relationship than did'nt. There is, however, a good whack of research that shows vegetarians are less likely to suffer coronary artery disease, obesity, diabetes and many cancers and live longer than meat eaters. Fish is more beneficial to health. Though I'm a vegetarian for ethical reasons rather than health ones.


--------------------
Computer games don't affect kids. I mean if Pacman affected our generation as kids, we'd all be running around in a darkened room, munching pills and listening to repetitive electronic music.

"Being bitter and hateful is like drinking a vial of poison and hoping the other person gets sick" FreakQLibrium

"My motto from here on out is: If someone or something (including me) in my life is conducting themselves in such a way that they can be seen on Jerry Springer, it's time to take out the garbage!!! When you stop taking their behaviour personally and see their antics as a true reflection on their character, it becomes absolutely nauseating." Anon. on abusive relationships.


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Re: ethics of eating meat.......(continued from here more pix) [Re: enotake2]
    #1276001 - 02/03/03 11:26 PM (18 years, 11 months ago)

Someone who eats primarily meat and not a bunch of simple sugars and refined wheat will also be extremely healthy! As I posted earlier, Adiet high in protein and fat and low in simple carbohydrates has been proven to lower weight, reverse heart disease, cure diabetes, alleviate arthritis symptoms and on and on and on!

I lost 43 pounds in three months and brought my blood pressure to normal! eating mainly meat!

I know that a person who eats a lot of veggies and not a lot of refined foods can also be extremely healthy,but so can a meat eater!


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I see what everyone is saying. It is so hard to form an opinion when you see both sides so clearly!


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Offlineamnesiaseizure
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Re: ethics of eating meat.......(continued from here more pix) [Re: enotake2]
    #1276011 - 02/03/03 11:33 PM (18 years, 11 months ago)

The meat industry is a multi million dollar one and will be protected at all costs by those making a profit. Certain studies will always be downplayed or ridiculed and i agree that you can't make a decision based on one study alone. However, if you look around there are plenty of resources that all point to it being a healtier option. Anyway, that's besides the point IMO.

Using the argument that it's 'natural' makes me laugh. The way i see it, it's natural to kill other humans, rape, steal, abuse children etc etc... Do this mean we should all go about these things with gay abandon? You're protecting you're right to eat meat because you like the taste and you are conditioned to have a positive response every time you tuc into a juicy steak or wot not. Take control of actions for gods sake and realise the effect you have on the lives of others. And yes, i am saying that due to technology we can now all live in a way that massively reduces the suffering we inflict. If you go throught the thics of eating meat on a philosophical basis it is VERY hard to come up with a solid argument that condones what we do to them. Try reading Animal Liberation by Peter Singer and then come back with something that excites me!! He's a very well respected philosopher in Australia who became vegan after haveing a jolly good think about it all.

Lets face it, the majority of you probably come from the US where meat eating is such an ingrained way of life - apologies if you're not. And are you seriously saying that to find outr if something has a consciousness it has to be able to speak to me in my own language?? Oops, there goes the majority of the world's population!


"So you're saying that because of technology, that we now have a moral obligation to not kill or eat animals where previously it would have been ok? What is so special about advances in technology that it should suddenly make us alter the way we have been living for hundreds of thousands of years? And, yes, I do think that animals lack conciousness. If you don't believe me, go ask your dog, he'll tell you the same thing. "

That's exactly what i'm saying bert, what's so special is that now we don't HAVE to eat it to get all the necessary good stuff! Advances in technology have changed the way we live irreversibly and there's no denying it. Why shouldn't it in this area?

I'm not arguing the point that it's unnatural or that it's inherently wrong but that when we have a choice - the result that less harm would be being done - then it seems strange not to make it.

Not eating animals also has a very positive effect on the way you view yourself and the outside world. I'm not getting in my high horse but when i'm living in a way that excludes the xplotation of living things on such a grand scale, i can't help but feel less like a hypocrite when i reach down to pat a friendly dog or give my rat a cuddle. There can be little doubt that the hypocrisy is a rather larger one when you then bowl into Maccy D's and order a Big Mac.

Don't get me wrong - I'm not one of these extremists who believe that every living thing is conscious in exactly the same way we are. I do think however, that everything living can experience pain and will always make moves away form the source. What's the point in inflicting this torment on so many every single day merely so you can lick you lips and say mmmmmmmmm.

mmmmmmm?


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Offlineamnesiaseizure
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Re: ethics of eating meat.......(continued from here more pix) [Re: silversoul7]
    #1276016 - 02/03/03 11:37 PM (18 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

You know, I saw some show recently on the discovery channel where one thing they talked about was the theory that an increase in the amount of fish in our diets is one thing that contributed to our large brains, so from an evolutionary standpoint, it makes sense to eat certain types of meat.




I agree, i've read the same thing. But where has this increase in our brain size really got us ey? What is the intrinsic value of having a large brain if it means depending on the pain of other's to facilitate it?

There are no winners when we rely on exploiting othe lives.

I'm afraid we are all losing.


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Invisiblesilversoul7
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Re: ethics of eating meat.......(continued from here more pix) [Re: amnesiaseizure]
    #1276019 - 02/03/03 11:41 PM (18 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

Not eating animals also has a very positive effect on the way you view yourself and the outside world. I'm not getting in my high horse but when i'm living in a way that excludes the xplotation of living things on such a grand scale, i can't help but feel less like a hypocrite when i reach down to pat a friendly dog or give my rat a cuddle. There can be little doubt that the hypocrisy is a rather larger one when you then bowl into Maccy D's and order a Big Mac.



I never had a cow as a pet, nor would I want to. Also, why don't you ask the dog if it would rather have a Big Mac or a salad. Personally, I'd take the Big Mac, except it has lettuce, pickles, and onions, which I don't like.


--------------------


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Offlineamnesiaseizure
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Re: ethics of eating meat.......(continued from here more pix) [Re: motatraehrehtom]
    #1276020 - 02/03/03 11:42 PM (18 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

Also, the idea of humans being so very advanced that they should have some moral outrage about eating meat is just ridiculous.




Why is it ridiculous?

I always hate moral outrages but why is it so silly to rethink our behaviour due to advances in our culture?


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Re: ethics of eating meat.......(continued from here more pix) [Re: amnesiaseizure]
    #1276021 - 02/03/03 11:43 PM (18 years, 11 months ago)

Does the lettuce in your salad cry when you eat it? You murderer!


--------------------


"It is dangerous to be right when the government is wrong."--Voltaire


Edited by silversoul7 (02/03/03 11:43 PM)


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Re: ethics of eating meat.......(continued from here more pix) [Re: amnesiaseizure]
    #1276022 - 02/03/03 11:43 PM (18 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

. Using the argument that it's 'natural' makes me laugh. The way i see it, it's natural to kill other humans, rape, steal, abuse children etc etc... Do this mean we should all go about these things with gay abandon? mmmmmmm?





Some people will say anything to make a point! Weak.


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I may not always tell the truth, but atleast I'm honest
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I see what everyone is saying. It is so hard to form an opinion when you see both sides so clearly!


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Re: ethics of eating meat.......(continued from here more pix) [Re: sirreal]
    #1276027 - 02/03/03 11:47 PM (18 years, 11 months ago)

Why is that weak?

IMO using the 'natural' argument is pretty weak. You can use it to cover up all sorts of moral indignities...


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Re: ethics of eating meat.......(continued from here more pix) [Re: amnesiaseizure]
    #1276031 - 02/03/03 11:56 PM (18 years, 11 months ago)

Your point of view is full of drama and illogic! We evolved eating meat and our bodies metabolize it very well. Research has proven that if you eliminate most refined foods you can be extremely healthy eating meat! And stronger.

As for your other concerns, I don't care!. You may think that makes me an asshole, but I think crying over a cow or a fish makes a person look foolish!


--------------------
I may not always tell the truth, but atleast I'm honest
-----------

I see what everyone is saying. It is so hard to form an opinion when you see both sides so clearly!


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Re: ethics of eating meat.......(continued from here more pix) [Re: sirreal]
    #1276035 - 02/03/03 11:58 PM (18 years, 11 months ago)

Fair enough, i respect your viewpoint.




it's a shame that compassion makes me foolish though ey?


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Re: ethics of eating meat.......(continued from here more pix) [Re: sirreal]
    #1276065 - 02/04/03 12:43 AM (18 years, 11 months ago)

Who give's a fuck what other people think when it comes to the life of another being?

I have a problem with indirectly contribulting to deaths of animals by eating meat. One of the things I have the most problem with is the conditions that the animals we eat are kept in until they die. Pigs bred for our eating spend their life kept in stalls not much bigger than their own bodies where they can't turn around can't exercise, have minimal mental stimulation although they are intelligent animals- can't explore the enviroment or interact with other pigs although they are social animals, can't make a nest for their piglets, develop urinary tract infections and develop diseases at much higher rates than other pigs, exhibit contsant signs of stress, have concrete floors (no straw bedding or any comforts), and they have thier teeth clipped, tail cut off (which can cause chronic pain) and are castrated. I was going to find some point form information to post here but I couldn't look at the information on the net long enough because it was TOO DAMNED SAD. How do you feel about indirectly contributing to that then, eh? eh?

Aside from that they are pumped full of hormones and antibiotics - I can't see anything too natural eating animals raised in such conditions and given hormones etc. Our ancestors evolved from eating free roaming animals and from eating all of the animal - the brains, livers, all of it


--------------------
Computer games don't affect kids. I mean if Pacman affected our generation as kids, we'd all be running around in a darkened room, munching pills and listening to repetitive electronic music.

"Being bitter and hateful is like drinking a vial of poison and hoping the other person gets sick" FreakQLibrium

"My motto from here on out is: If someone or something (including me) in my life is conducting themselves in such a way that they can be seen on Jerry Springer, it's time to take out the garbage!!! When you stop taking their behaviour personally and see their antics as a true reflection on their character, it becomes absolutely nauseating." Anon. on abusive relationships.


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Re: ethics of eating meat.......(continued from here more pix) [Re: enotake2]
    #1276072 - 02/04/03 12:52 AM (18 years, 11 months ago)

First of all, I don't give a fuck that you don't give a fuck what I think! Now, on to the discussion:

I do care about the conditions that the animals are raised in. Only because it effects the quality of the meat that I EAT! But if I am gonna eat the pig, why should I care if it led a happy and fulfilling life! Get real.

Do a little research on the subject of hormones and antibiotics. It does not show up in the meat.

Quit whining about how sad us meateaters make you. I DO NOT CARE!



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I see what everyone is saying. It is so hard to form an opinion when you see both sides so clearly!


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Re: ethics of eating meat.......(continued from here more pix) [Re: calishroomer]
    #1276088 - 02/04/03 01:19 AM (18 years, 11 months ago)

This year ive rasied my own chickens from egg to table :smile: and shot
about 10 rabbits and maybe 20 rats.The only thing ive killed and not eaten would be the rats.So i may be a little hypercritical(sp?)to say whats with bear hunting?it seems most common in america and yet ive never seen a recipe for bear stew or bear steak?Do they litrally shot the poor suckers,skin them and just leave a trail of rotting carcasses?whats the deal with that?


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Re: ethics of eating meat.......(continued from here more pix) [Re: G a n j a]
    #1276093 - 02/04/03 01:23 AM (18 years, 11 months ago)

I have an uncle who lives in south carolina and he owns 250+ acres. When I visit him one of my favorite dishes is his bear soup. It is delicious!


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I see what everyone is saying. It is so hard to form an opinion when you see both sides so clearly!


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Re: ethics of eating meat.......(continued from here more pix) [Re: sirreal]
    #1276113 - 02/04/03 01:40 AM (18 years, 11 months ago)

Well you have a cool uncle,something tells me this is not the norm though?Allthough ive never been to South carolina

I worked along side a game keeper in the uk who ate every thing he had to shot through his job i.e weasles stoats crows foxes moles and squirrels this i had the upmost respect for but didnt like eating his pies.

Fed the dead rats to the local foxes:) hoping lead poisioning may kill the fuckers(j/K)

But sport hunting or tropy hunting sucks i mean i tryed to mount one of the rat heads but it just dryed up and rotted :frown:


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Re: ethics of eating meat.......(continued from here more pix) [Re: G a n j a]
    #1276123 - 02/04/03 01:48 AM (18 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

I worked along side a game keeper in the uk who ate every thing he had to shot through his job i.e weasles stoats crows foxes moles and squirrels this i had the upmost respect for but didnt like eating his pies.




Squirrel pie is good, you should try it some time.


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I see what everyone is saying. It is so hard to form an opinion when you see both sides so clearly!


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Offlinecalishroomer
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Re: ethics of eating meat.......(continued from here more pix) [Re: sirreal]
    #1276166 - 02/04/03 02:37 AM (18 years, 11 months ago)


".So i may be a little hypercritical(sp?)to say whats with bear hunting?it seems most common in america and yet ive never seen a recipe for bear stew or bear steak?Do they litrally shot the poor suckers,skin them and just leave a trail of rotting carcasses?whats the deal with that? "


BEAR MEAT?......

actually, bear hunting is VERY popular here in california. i know more than SEVERAL people that hunt them........there are several MILLION recipies for bear meat. the guys i know would NEVER leave the bear in the field... our local paper complained to the public recently that there were not enough bear hunters as we have an EXTREME overpopulation right now. personally, i dont care for bear meat (thats not to say its not good, i just personally dont like it)

anyone whos intrested can get recipies for cooking wild game here:

http://www.cookwildgame.com/

its a killer spot with recipies for just about everything, even snake and alligator

we should start our own forum meat eaters for world domination (OH!.....i mean meat eaters for world peace)

no sea food recipies there though, like recipies for prepairing and eating bearded clam (HEHEH).................


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Re: ethics of eating meat.......(continued from here more pi [Re: calishroomer]
    #1276432 - 02/04/03 05:17 AM (18 years, 11 months ago)

Good Link! I bow hunt for elk and mule deer. 90% of the meat I eat I hunt. Every time hunting is curtailed, we have disease outbreaks and roadkill everywhere. Trust me, I provide a much more humane end than an SUV! I have the upmost respect for vegetarians, and I think the meat industry is corrupt and just plain gross. I had a good friend who worked at a slaughterhouse and you don't want to here about it. That having been said, every tribal culture I know of eats meat. If anyone is interested, I'm making a game cookbook of my own. pm me for recipes!


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