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InvisibleeMotionALLmotion
DivineeMotive....

Registered: 02/28/05
Posts: 759
Loc: The Symphony of Lights......
EGO Ego ego, and the Gradients Therein/Out.....
    #3946272 - 03/20/05 10:30 PM (11 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

gettinjiggywithit said:
Emotional man,
.
This is not about John. If some one else has a problem with Johns abilities and Johns awareness or expression of his abilities it is their problem and it comes from their false ego. You said it yourself when you said they may begin to dislike John for believing they are lower for not having his ability.
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They are not John. Talk about being in a false ego, to believe you are in someone Else's body and not your own body.
.
Stop for a moment here and concentrate on this. If you are at your best, how can you be lower then it? Even if you are not at your best, that is still your problem for believing you should be and are not. It's not Johns problem or fault you are not up to your potential.
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if you are at your potential physical best and feel lower, to feel or think this way would require a false belief or idea about the self. Your best is being at your highest ability and that is your truth, you are at your highest. Where does this "you are lower" stuff come from? That is a false belief about the self.
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I don't know what other words will flip the light switch for you. Maybe someone else has them.  :confused:



.
:idea:  <~~~  Lightswitch is on....  :lol:
.
OK, instead of going into other's shoes to say that they may be false egos, lets make some examples of fact (as examples)....  I am trying to figure out the correct terms for all this ego stuff so I can understand the different "gradients" and nomenclatures of self perception, as well as other's possible perceptions....  Please, have patients with me, I am trying to learn....  :smile:  :heart:
.
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I would like to now BE John (making it MY ego)....  And all of the stuff you had said about jumping to get the bananas was true.... 
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1) I can jump five feet up.... 
This is stated on "unstaind" measurable facts and is true, so this does make it egoless, right...?
(Fact is stated, it is not personal, it is present tense, and no one should be able to take offense to it....)
.
2) I can jump five feet up, and that is better than some.... 
Still MAY be true, but starting to make a self rank....  Is this Ego stepping in...?
.
3) I can jump five feet up, and that is better than most.... 
Still MAY be true, but again, making an higher self rank.... 
.
4) I can jump five feet up, and that is by FAR, better than most.... 
Still MAY be true, but again, making an even higher self rank.... 
.
5) I can jump five feet up, and that is by FAR, better than EVERYONE I know.... 
Still MAY be true, but isn't this an egotistic way to say it...?
.
6) I can jump five feet up, and that is better than EVERYONE in ENTIRE the WORLD.... 
Still MAY be true, but perhaps a blind statement, as maybe there are some that choose not to show that they can jump 6 feet....  Perhaps making it a false statement....(?)
.
7) I can jump five feet up, and I AM WAY BETTER THAN YOU ARE.... 
Still MAY be true, but is now making it "personal" and boastful towards you(but not neccesarily taken that way by you) in the possible intentions of "putting you down" to "lift me up"....  Is it still considered just ego at this point(?), and what lines are my statements crossing into....?
.
8) I can jump five feet up, and I WILL ALWAYS BE WAY BETTER THAN YOU EVER CAN and COULD BE.... 
Still MAY be true, but is also making it "personal" and boastful towards you,(but not neccesarily taken that way by you) in the possible intentions of "putting you down" to "lift me up" - AND ignorantly assuming quite a bit....  I(John) could fall down and hurt my knee, and never be able to jump again - making this statement false....    Or, YOU could exersize and learn how to jump better, and maybe some day COULD jump higher than me - again making the statement false....  Or even perhaps after making a bold statement like that, a banana tree could fall on my head, and break my neck - again making the statement false, as I may no longer be able to jump again....  Or, one worse case scenario, you could take it personally that I may have hurt you, and you could hit me over the head with a banana tree, and kill me - making the statement false....
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9) I can jump five feet up, and I WILL ALWAYS BE WAY BETTER THAT EVERYONE IN THE WORLD EVER IS, CAN, and COULD BE....
Still MAY be true, and you could say "proove it", and I could say, "Proove me wrong"....  In this particular statement/instance, I would say that there is no "truth" or "false", and nobody can truly claim otherwise....  One would have to be GOD himself to see all past jumpers, and perhaps even the future ones.... 
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10) YOU SUCK AT JUMPING, and WILL NEVER EAT ANOTHER BANANA AGAIN....!  MUHHahahahahahahaa....! :evil:  :lol:
Had to put an extreme personal statement of rank just for fun....!  :tongue::heart:
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So, as you may see, being John has many different choices of expressing one's self with, humility, rank, personally attacking, and all can still be the truth....  Then when you bring in using such things as "everyone", or "always", it cancels out the statement as being a defined "truth"....
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So what are the defining or descriptive words that one could use to break all of this down....?  One could say "Ego", but it seems much more than this when you add choice of intent, and another's emotional feelings to the mix....
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Another important thing that I am noticing that MAY be of relevence.... 
At any point when words such as;  "IS" or "AM" or "WILL" are used, in humbleness of ego they
may be replaced with such words as;  "MAY" or "COULD" or "MAYBE" or "PERHAPS" or "SHOULD".... 
.
Even the word "Should" may imply a presidence for one's opinion of the matter....  :heart:
 

:sun:


--------------------
Uni-VersALL      MasterPeace
eMotive  :sun: Divinity NowThere Infinity :sun:  eMelody


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Invisiblegettinjiggywithit
jiggy
Female User Gallery

Registered: 07/20/04
Posts: 7,469
Loc: Heart of Laughter
Re: EGO Ego ego, and the Gradients Therein/Out..... [Re: eMotionALLmotion]
    #3946443 - 03/20/05 11:03 PM (11 years, 8 months ago)

I'll keep this short and sweet. If no one can jump higher then John, then his saying he is the best high jumper of the group is keeping with objective truth.

If he stays matter of facts about it when asked then he is simply being in his truth, the known objective truth of the moment.


Now, if John has a need to make others feel less then him or himself better just over this one jumping feature or to go as far as to power trip on them by witholding bananas, the only food source, because HE CAN if they can't reach them on their own, then YES, John is moving into a false ego.

This is simply because, if he needs to feel better then, that need is only coming from one place, a fear of feeling less then. That would be a false self idea and an irrational fear.


--------------------
Ahuwale ka nane huna.


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InvisibleeMotionALLmotion
DivineeMotive....

Registered: 02/28/05
Posts: 759
Loc: The Symphony of Lights......
Re: EGO Ego ego, and the Gradients Therein/Out..... [Re: gettinjiggywithit]
    #3946747 - 03/21/05 12:02 AM (11 years, 8 months ago)

gettinjiggywithit said:
I'll keep this short and sweet. If no one can jump higher then John, then his saying he is the best high jumper of the group is keeping with objective truth.
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Yes, if there is a group where all have jumped a lower height, this would be true, but using the word "best" still places a self rank - to which I am thinking to be "Ego"....?  Is it "wrong" to place a "self-rank" as it relates to the ego when it seems to be the objective to loose it completely....?  That is exactly what I am trying to figure out....   
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Pehaps, but not stated as fact, maybe saying "I can jump the highest" would be the most "egoless" way to say it....?    Even that places more of a "self-rank" than just simply stating, "I can jump 5 feet high"....  Do you see what I mean....?
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If he stays matter of facts about it when asked then he is simply being in his truth, the known objective truth of the moment.
I agree 100% with this....!    As John was asked, how high he could jump, and has not placed rank on himself....
.
.
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Now, if John has a need to make others feel less then him or himself better just over this one jumping feature or to go as far as to power trip on them by witholding bananas, the only food source, because HE CAN if they can't reach them on their own, then YES, John is moving into a false ego.
OK, so boasting of ones abilities, and using it to be as the possible withholding of something(like bananas) from what other people may want, this is a "False Ego"....? 
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If this was their only food source and others just wanted him to knock ALL of the bananas down at once, but John could see that they would quickly run out of food and all may die in a relative short time if he did that, would it still be a "power trip"....?    In this type of situation, I am sure it would depended on who you asked....  Ask John, he may tell you the reasons were strictly of survival purposes, and would be stated in an honest manner(remember, in this example, John is ME :grin: )....  But if you ask a hungry disgruntled non-jumper person in the group that WANTS SOME BANANAS NOW, and don't like that they can't make that decision for themselves, you very well could get a "power trip" answer pointed at John.... 
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Perhaps that is why I took this all over the place with respect to "perspectives"....
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.
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This is simply because, if he(John) needs to feel better then, that need is only coming from one place, a fear of feeling less then. That would be a false self idea and an irrational fear.
It could also come from a far darker place as well....  It might be an assumption on your part to just call it "fear driven" as the only one place that it could come from....  Even "planning" for a future of survival is not really based out of "fear" persay.... 
.
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So none of this really gave descriptions as to what the gradients of the ego are really made up of....  It just brought more possibilities to the "Jumping for Bananas" set of situations....  Not that there is anything wrong with that at all - and I thank you, but I would like to know more about terms or degrees of the ego itself....  Are there quantifications that can be attributed to such a thing, or is it just "you have an ego" or "you do not have an ego"....?  :heart:


:sun:


--------------------
Uni-VersALL      MasterPeace
eMotive  :sun: Divinity NowThere Infinity :sun:  eMelody


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Invisibleredgreenvines
irregular verb
 User Gallery

Registered: 04/08/04
Posts: 19,698
Re: EGO Ego ego, and the Gradients Therein/Out..... [Re: eMotionALLmotion]
    #3947588 - 03/21/05 05:57 AM (11 years, 8 months ago)

once you get self and other happenning
the comparisons are just for entertainment.


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Invisibletrick

Registered: 10/22/04
Posts: 1,059
Loc: unknown
Re: EGO Ego ego, and the Gradients Therein/Out..... [Re: redgreenvines]
    #3947625 - 03/21/05 06:35 AM (11 years, 8 months ago)

Facts & opinions are all derived from the idea that what we percieve is reality. Our preconceptions & prejuidices make us see things differently. Facts are solid ideas that can be distorted & denounced but are still there. An opinion can be distorted or denounced but opinions are essentially biased. Facts can't be biased. A fact can represent only one side of an idea and not acknowledge the other but, it's not biased. Of course facts can formulate biases but they contain no biases within. Therefore the question is posed that if facts aren't biased then are false facts opinions? In my opinion, there is a merger of the two.

I think ego is a good thing but, it depends on how you use your ego. If ego is used for gloating then that is a good example of how a person can achieve results through secondary means of expression. A gloating ego is usually attributed to the rise of one's self-esteem, whether it is a conscious or subconscious effort. Placing a description upon yourself that would instinctively hurt others emotionally is rude. It's unintentional gloating if it's genuinely unintentional. The best way to compromise this situation is by completely avoiding it or sugar-coating the process. Don't make your testament a spectacle. Do it with dignity. You should try to avoid putting people in stressful situations unless it is completely inevitable. If someone boasts their certain qualities or achievements that someone else lacks and they do it with disregard for the other's feelings, then that is uncalled for. It's an insult, really.

Your intentions are what make your ego.
In order to construct a solid & good ego you need to have a wide perception of people's emotions. It's not that hard. Use the golden rule.


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InvisibleeMotionALLmotion
DivineeMotive....

Registered: 02/28/05
Posts: 759
Loc: The Symphony of Lights......
Re: EGO Ego ego, and the Gradients Therein/Out..... [Re: trick]
    #3947793 - 03/21/05 09:09 AM (11 years, 8 months ago)

Aaaahhh, intentions once again....    What is the golden rule....?   
Is it "Do unto others as you would have them do unto you...."(?)
(Props to NiteOwl for that....  :heart: )

It seems very important to be careful what one says, this will be a re-training for me, but perhaps not a major overhaul....    Typing it on a computer is much easier because you can go thru and check your stuff before you present it....    In casual conversation it is easy to blurt out words in an immediate burst - due to not ever really paying attention to this before....    I have found myself "re-phrazing" things I have said right after I have said them lately....    It makes it a lot easier to just ask questions when having a conversation....  :smile:


:sun:

P.S. Your avatar is pretty damn funny....!


--------------------
Uni-VersALL      MasterPeace
eMotive  :sun: Divinity NowThere Infinity :sun:  eMelody


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OfflineGomp
¡(Bound to·(O))be free!
Male User Gallery

Registered: 09/11/04
Posts: 10,866
Loc: I re·side [primarily] in...
Last seen: 2 months, 3 days
Re: EGO Ego ego, and the Gradients Therein/Out..... [Re: eMotionALLmotion]
    #3947798 - 03/21/05 09:14 AM (11 years, 8 months ago)

ego
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n 1: an inflated feeling of pride in your superiority to others [syn: egotism, self-importance] 2: your consciousness of your own identity [syn: self] 3: (psychoanalysis) the conscious mind
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Main Entry: ego
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Pronunciation: 'E-(")gO also 'eg-(")O
Function: noun
Inflected Form: plural egos
1 : the self especially as contrasted with another self or the world
2 : the one of the three divisions of the psyche in psychoanalytic theory that serves as the organized conscious mediator between the person and reality especially by functioning both in the perception of and adaptation to reality ?compare ID, SUPEREGO


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Disclaimer!?


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Invisiblegettinjiggywithit
jiggy
Female User Gallery

Registered: 07/20/04
Posts: 7,469
Loc: Heart of Laughter
Re: EGO Ego ego, and the Gradients Therein/Out..... [Re: eMotionALLmotion]
    #3948168 - 03/21/05 11:33 AM (11 years, 8 months ago)

Perhaps, but not stated as fact, maybe saying "I can jump the highest" would be the most "ego less" way to say it....? Even that places more of a "self-rank" than just simply stating, "I can jump 5 feet high".... Do you see what I mean....?.

I think this is all about semantics and subjectivity at this point. I see what you are saying though. I will repeat that I think if it bothers someone for him to say he is the best high jumper in the group versus he can jump the highest then they have an insecure ego issue to work on.

Back to Johns ego. Sometimes, rank is used to differentiate skill levels and ability or even authority levels in this life of ours. The martial arts hold skill level ranks designated by the color belt you wear. The army has them designated by experience and level of responsibility or authority given to another. I'm sure you can understand the need for them for goals to be accomplished and for order and communication to take place for quick and easy understanding.

The word best or better means something in our language and John is not deceiving himself or others of this truth if he uses it. I think here is where you are getting jumbled.

John is not saying, "I am a better person then all of you. " That would be funny over inflated ego crap. That's too general and subjective to even quantify a relative ranking within the group. He is saying he is better at jumping high. This is an isolated physical ability or skill.

It may appear as if John is trying to separate himself as being better then the others in general if he says he is the best high jumper. The fact is, he can do something the others can't to no fault of his or their's. Mother Nature isolated him with this ability from the others and gave him that rank. Should he feel bad about himself because he was gifted with the legs of a grass hopper? This is a part of what makes John John and NOT Jane in the group.

This is a true natural distinguishment of an ego persona and what makes one different from another. The better part is a relative term. If John takes pride in the fact that its because of him the group eats and survives and doesn't stare to death because of his sole existence, that is a pretty huge deal, relative to the importance the group and John, places on their survival.

If the group doesn't give a shit if they starve and die, then the value judgment of his being the best holds no weight and his pride in it would then be false. Because the group holds survival at a high value judgment then Johns ability to secure it naturally comes with a high value judgment. For him to be in realization of his value and importance to the groups will to survive is in keeping with a high value he places upon himself in the area of jumping. If he realizes this value he is not living in self deception or self denial.

We all have ego personas and they are based on what distinguishes us from another. The values of who and what we are are also determined by the will of the people. Because the group has the will to survive and made it the most important goal, THEY are the ones who elevated Johns jumping status within the group, not him.

If John wants to survive then it would be natural for him to hold that ability in a place of high value relative to his will.

If the whole group said, "John, we are sick and tired of you bragging about being the best jumper and you know what, we don't care if we live or die anymore. Take your bananas and shove them up your ass" Then what will happen to Johns sense of self?

The group will then have deflated Johns ego persona of being the best high jumper. That word best lost all of its weight and meaning of importance relative to the group no longer giving it any. Johns sense of self importance will have gone down the drain with it. His ability is no longer important to anyone now and neither is he to the group.

If he still wants to live, his ability is still important and of high value to him. If he breaks a leg he is screwed. Now, Johns ability is no longer important to anyone but himself. For John, the ability itself is of importance because his will to live and survive is important to him. If he wants to walk around all day going, "I am so happy I am great a jumping high so I can live" then he is just appreciating himself giving his ability value.

Its relative to the will to survive. What if John says to himself," I am sick and tired of eating bananas and being alone because everyone else starved to death long ago". I want to throw in the towel too. Now, the stock on his ability just tanked. It's worth nothing anymore.

For the time the group inflated the value of his ability importance it was justly so. For the  the time he inflated the value of his ability it was justly so.

If Jane thought her importance and vale to the group was her ability to keep them entertained with laughter, when absolutely no body laughed at here jokes , or found her amusing, or told her she was then Jane is living in a false persona relative to how she positions her value within the group matrix. If Jane makes herself laugh and no one else in the group does, then the value of importance she places on her ability to make her self laugh is just only relative to her own value judgments of whats important to her- laughter.

Her sense of self relative to herself is in true ego, but her sense of self relative to the group is in false ego.

The rights and wrongs you are looking to pin down here are relative to where individuals and groups place values. If John walked around proud as peacock thinking he was all that and put all of his sense of self worth on his jumping ability and nothing else, what do you think happened to his esteem when the group told him, they no longer cared to live and to shove the bananas? He would go into terrible egoic suffering.

The moral of the story is really about being careful where you place your own sense of self worth. 

OK, so boasting of ones abilities, and using it to be as the possible withholding of something(like bananas) from what other people may want, this is a "False Ego"....?

It's true for as long his ability is important to his will to survive or the others. And that's the catch to be careful of. If he places his own sense of self worth on it alone, and peoples values change or he breaks a leg or becomes paralyzed then what? His sense of self importance will be messed with so hard he may not be able to cope. In light of the bigger picture, it sure is false because peoples values and physical things and abilities are subject to change status at a moments notice.

What can one bank on that is permanent and not subject to change at a moments notice in this realm of the great illusion? NOTHING! Knowing this is where the humility of the great Sages comes from and why they live in peace no matter what. The only thing they put any real value on is the great NOTHING, which all things of smoke and mirrors come from.
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If this was their only food source and others just wanted him to knock ALL of the bananas down at once, but John could see that they would quickly run out of food and all may die in a relative short time if he did that, would it still be a "power trip"....? In this type of situation, I am sure it would depended on who you asked.... Ask John, he may tell you the reasons were strictly of survival purposes, and would be stated in an honest manner(remember, in this example, John is ME  ).... But if you ask a hungry disgruntled non-jumper person in the group that WANTS SOME BANANAS NOW, and don't like that they can't make that decision for themselves, you very well could get a "power trip" answer pointed at John....
.
Perhaps that is why I took this all over the place with respect to "perspectives"....


Um, Yes.

This is simply because, if he(John) needs to feel better then, that need is only coming from one place, a fear of feeling less then. That would be a false self idea and an irrational fear.
It could also come from a far darker place as well.... It might be an assumption on your part to just call it "fear driven" as the only one place that it could come from.... Even "planning" for a future of survival is not really based out of "fear" persay....
.


Dude, this is fear driven  power tripping to the max! These actions are driven by the fear of dying, the big honcho primordial fear of all fears.

If you want to see gradients of ego inflation or deflation relative to the values people place on things truthfully or deceptively so I think that's an accurate view of what happens in the great illusion.

Even that is on a gradient of relative truths.

Are you familiar with the Cosmic Joke? The great truth is, none of this stuff of matter matters. Dark and Light? Its a joke, there only ever was light. Up and Down? Joke too! There only ever was "here". Right and wrong? Joke joke joke. There only ever was "what is".  You don't matter and I don't matter because in the great truth we are not our bodies. Ashes to ashes..........*poof* :rotfl:


--------------------
Ahuwale ka nane huna.


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