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Offlinekadakuda
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What makes a plant a drug or medicine.
    #3905306 - 03/12/05 01:00 AM (11 years, 8 months ago)

Purely opinion here.

A medicine is a plant that its usage is discovered, manipulated, and produced before becoming widely known about and grown in the general public.

A drug is pretty much teh opposite.

anyone else notice this? i can find plants containing lsa, dmt, opiates, and other powerfull hallucinogens/effects far easier than i can find things like valerian, grifonia, hops etc.

not that any of them are hard to come by. i dunno, maybe its the liquor talking (another example, alcohol can be made eaily, cheaply but because it was monopolized first it is still rather controlled and expensive), but this shit makes no sense to me.

money game i suppose. this hippy does nto approve.

what are your thoughts Dr. neuro?


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InvisibleRavus
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Re: What makes a plant a drug or medicine. [Re: kadakuda]
    #3905318 - 03/12/05 01:03 AM (11 years, 8 months ago)

A plant is a medicine if it helps the human body, especially during times of need such as sickness or injury. Drugs can mean a lot of things, but when I think of plant drugs I think of plants that produce psychoactive effects and can change the mindset of the user temporarily.

Often these overlap, such as with the opium poppy and cannabis.

If by drug you mean medication though, the other common definition of the word, then there is no difference, except drugs may possibly be a bit broader than medicines to some definitions.


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InvisibleRavus
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Re: What makes a plant a drug or medicine. [Re: kadakuda]
    #3905327 - 03/12/05 01:06 AM (11 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

A medicine is a plant that its usage is discovered, manipulated, and produced before becoming widely known about and grown in the general public.

A drug is pretty much teh opposite.




I don't get what you're getting at here? A drug must have its usage discovered, manipulated and produced before becoming known and grown in the general public just like a medicine. If you mean that people are ignorant of the possible chemicals in the plant, then that too would apply to both medicines and drugs- people may grow and know certain flowers in their garden that could contain a cancer-fighting drug, or psychoactive drugs.


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Offlinekadakuda
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Re: What makes a plant a drug or medicine. [Re: Ravus]
    #3905332 - 03/12/05 01:08 AM (11 years, 8 months ago)

personally i would consider the sterotypical "drug" to be a medicine as it can also be used as psycological medicine.

i am speaking of western medicine (canada/usa).

poppy seems to be the bug grey area cause even the far right wing anti drug folks can sometimes accept it.

i dunno, whole argument seems to be a battle of the hypocrites.


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Offlinekadakuda
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Re: What makes a plant a drug or medicine. [Re: Ravus]
    #3905375 - 03/12/05 01:25 AM (11 years, 8 months ago)

hmmm, i had it ver clear in my head.  i'll try and explain ti a different way :crazy:

first what i mean by a medicine is mor ethe retail drug store line of things, and drugs as more the type fo thing encountered on this site.


grrrr, i cant put my brain bubble sinto words.  i suppose i am trying to say but with a lot of grey area that the plants that many medicines are somewhat harder to find than say drugs, and that many of the ethnos discussed here seem easier to cultivate, or at least more information on how to cultivate.  im heading into a tin foil hatish area which i didnt really want to but cant really not.


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InvisibleRavus
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Re: What makes a plant a drug or medicine. [Re: kadakuda]
    #3905396 - 03/12/05 01:32 AM (11 years, 8 months ago)

Hm, if you were referring to the retail drug store line medicines I didn't realize, as the title says, "What makes a plant a drug or medicine?" Many of those are synthesized because, unlike a recreational cannabis user who relies on nature, in the drug industry they tend to like pure clean products without plant material. Then they just dilute it again with filler, of course.

I do think I get what you're saying though, you're saying it's a lot easier for people to grow their own cannabis and morning glory seeds and san pedro than to grow their own aspirin, eh? That it seems much more common for plants to have psychoactive components being grown and found commonly than plants with drug store-type medicinal components being grown and found commonly? I'm not sure why this is, maybe humans just invest more energy into getting messed up than trying to find medicines in common plants.

You sound a bit drunk nonetheless.


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OfflineBoneMan
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Re: What makes a plant a drug or medicine. [Re: Ravus]
    #3905501 - 03/12/05 02:25 AM (11 years, 8 months ago)

the words medicine and drug used to the same thing.

way back in the day


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Offlinekadakuda
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Re: What makes a plant a drug or medicine. [Re: Ravus]
    #3905519 - 03/12/05 02:31 AM (11 years, 8 months ago)

yes thats what im trying to say...sorry.

it also kinda seems to spill into modified genes. moreso with fuits and veggeis. monsento comes to mind. btu i wont go there.

BoneMan, to me it still is. jsut not when i talk about other people practices and pills etc.


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Offlinefelixhigh
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Re: What makes a plant a drug or medicine. [Re: kadakuda]
    #3907040 - 03/12/05 02:20 PM (11 years, 8 months ago)

drugs are not bad, m'k?
for example, you will find tropanes at the drug store, they're good medicine for a number of uses but can be hallucinogenic beyond a certain point, like many other drugs or plants...
on the medicinal plants, i think you must be missing some of it, i'm sure there are much more medicinal plants in north america than valeriana and griffonia and hops... it's just not part of the north american western culture, such westerners would rather go to the drugstore and swallow a couple pills than chewing a nasty piece of bark or some sort of nasty brew...
i think it's more a matter of attitude, it's up to whose taking the drug/plant/medicine if that's going to be something to do good or harm to himself...


FH :wexican:


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InvisibleCorporal Kielbasa
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Re: What makes a plant a drug or medicine. [Re: kadakuda]
    #3907057 - 03/12/05 02:23 PM (11 years, 8 months ago)

If you look for it you will find it. Get the old school pharmacopia books, grow a medicinel herb garden, take classes. Many herbs are found threw out nature. Every plant out there has its own posetive use.


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Offlineneuro
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Re: What makes a plant a drug or medicine. [Re: kadakuda]
    #3907661 - 03/12/05 04:23 PM (11 years, 8 months ago)

I accept the academic definition of a drug: Chemical substance used for its effects on bodily processes.

I accept this definition of medicine: 1. An agent, such as a drug, used to treat disease or injury. 2. Something that serves as a remedy or corrective.

Thus not all medicines are drugs. So you can't think of medicines as a subset of drugs, so it can best be represented by this figure:



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Offlinekadakuda
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Re: What makes a plant a drug or medicine. [Re: neuro]
    #3909137 - 03/12/05 10:27 PM (11 years, 8 months ago)

:lol: great diagram.  not much room for confusion :grin:

i do agree that it probably is msotly due to people not interested in growing medicines (chewing/eating bark instead of a handy pill).  that said i have noticed in the retail market, in my area at least, that medicinal plants are harder to come by.  yes there are teh very common types that people like to make little herb gardens out of.  and with richters it is getting better around here (that is the main herb place they sell...west coast seeds doesnt have the selection).

that said i can also buy yopo seeds, salvia, weed, cactus etc with relative ease.  it jsut seems harder to find a lot of the plants i would like that are not of the tripping kind.

i dunno, maybe its just me.  i'll move on :smile:


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Offlinebiglo
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Re: What makes a plant a drug or medicine. [Re: kadakuda]
    #3909947 - 03/13/05 01:49 AM (11 years, 8 months ago)

A plant is not medicine unless it can be made into a pill, patch, or injection that can be mass marketed to the public.  At least in modern America...

:rolleyes:


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Offlineneuro
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Re: What makes a plant a drug or medicine. [Re: kadakuda]
    #3910839 - 03/13/05 11:41 AM (11 years, 8 months ago)

>>i do agree that it probably is msotly due to people not interested in growing medicines (chewing/eating bark instead of a handy pill).

I'm sure many are not interested in growing the plant sources of many medicines. For example Rouowlfia is the plant source of Reserpine, an early drug used in the treatment of schizophrenia. One would have to drink a tea made of the root if they can even successfully grow it. It is much easier to take a pill that consists only of the isolated drug in that plant than to drink a tea that has many things dissolved in it that are not needed, make it hard for you to take the medicine, or flat out contain other harmful agents.

Also it has to do with concentration, the yew plant contains the source of some anti-cancer medications, they're not in strong abundance so one would have to do some work to concentrate down yew to ingest it in an active form. Not all of modern medicine is bad, it's just the marketting tactics and practices of the drug companies, but the actual act of isolation or synthesizing from naturally produced compounds in my mind is not the bad thing here. Basically I think if people grew there own medicinal plants for self medications, one would have to chew quite a bit of Willow bark to get the same effect from popping an aspirin. Does this make it bad? No just more efficacious and less time consuming and circumvents the unplesasantries of using raw plant materials. The goal of medicine is to make the cure better than the disease.


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Offlinethe man
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Re: What makes a plant a drug or medicine. [Re: neuro]
    #3910911 - 03/13/05 12:15 PM (11 years, 8 months ago)

well said neuro


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Offlinekadakuda
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Re: What makes a plant a drug or medicine. [Re: the man]
    #3911194 - 03/13/05 01:49 PM (11 years, 8 months ago)

indeed.  makes total sense.

guess theres just a handfull of peopel who like chewing the bark they grew :smile:

dont yew trees contain some other very toxic chems in them?  i know their berries are said to be very toxic.  the trees here are getting pretty endangered, but their wood really is out of this world.


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Offlinethe man
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Re: What makes a plant a drug or medicine. [Re: kadakuda]
    #3911230 - 03/13/05 02:00 PM (11 years, 8 months ago)

but it is great to have the power of plants. i like to. but for practical purposes asprin is better


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Offlinefelixhigh
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Re: What makes a plant a drug or medicine. [Re: the man]
    #3911479 - 03/13/05 02:59 PM (11 years, 8 months ago)

yup, but not all proprieties of a plant reside in a single compound(or a few), cannabis is a good example of it...


FH


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Re: What makes a plant a drug or medicine. [Re: felixhigh]
    #3941660 - 03/19/05 10:21 PM (11 years, 8 months ago)

The_man: I'm not aware of the other toxics in yew, but i would presume there are some nasty things not wanted.


Felix:
<<up, but not all proprieties of a plant reside in a single compound(or a few), cannabis is a good example of it...

That's a very good point. That's the trick of modern pharmaceutical company, if we see ancetodtal evidence of 1 plant doing something useful, our next trick is to isolate the chemicals or chemicals responsible, and either replicate them, find 1 single derivative that can act as all of those chems in concert or start synthesizing them and preparing them in the right ratios. That's why rolling out new drugs is such a costly business.


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Re: What makes a plant a drug or medicine. [Re: kadakuda]
    #3941715 - 03/19/05 10:47 PM (11 years, 8 months ago)

"A weed is a plant who's virtues have not yet been discovered" :wink:

I think this issue is cultural(etc), because the indians used to say, peyote is a medicine, and the white man took this as the rambling of a primitive people, but when we look inside peyote we find it truly is a MEDICINE.
And a strong one at that.

Back when I was working for the recycling depot, I saved this book from the shreader  :shocked:  :laugh:


I would HIGHLY recomend this book to all of you, it contains all of the plants we generally regard as herbs, but it also contains Henbane, Peyote, Cannabis,Coca,Yerba Mate,and some others you might not expect to find in a "herbal" book.
Its even got opium, right next to the corn poppy.  :wink:
(not to mention a very good history section, and many herbal reciepes, not to mention info on making your own tincures , creams, extracts etc etc. this is THE herbal book IMO,Or at least the best one I have ever seen)


A plant is defined as a drug or a medicine based on the attitude of the person involved.


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