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InvisibleRevelation

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Registered: 08/04/01
Posts: 6,130
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Destiny
    #371941 - 08/14/01 04:50 AM (15 years, 3 months ago)

Lately I have been thinking about the idea of destiny and how it actually does exist. I was watching the news a couple of days ago and an idea struck me. The news seemed to be all about crime and punishment (why is it that The News = bad news?)...anyway the thought struck me that people may not be really in control or responsible for their actions. Right, think of someone who has commited a really big crime. You may look down on that person or wonder why he did it. But then imagine that you were born from the same parents as him...imagine you had exactly the same life experiences as him..in other words you would BE him..your actions would be exactly the same as his. You would commit the crime. I said this to a friend of mine and he disgreed and said that people know the difference between right and wrong and that we always have a choice. I agreed, but said that our life experiences and genetic make-up etc would "decide" what choice we would make. I suppose it all depends on your religious viewpoints if you agree with this or not. Hmm..what do you think?

"Pointy bird ... oh, pointy pointy...Anoint my head ... anointy, nointy"


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OfflinePlowKing
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Re: Destiny [Re: Revelation]
    #372065 - 08/15/01 03:28 AM (15 years, 3 months ago)

What's there to say? Without law.. chaos would rule. It keeps society in tact. I feel if you break the law in any way. You get the penalty for your actions. No matter your background. Sure a traumatic experience or build up from sexual abuse or what not could trigger an individual to commit such a crime; but It's not fair to the rest of us. Cause hey... nobody has had a perfect life....

Avid Acrid Jam Shred


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Avid Acrid Jam Shred


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OfflineGiga_Funk
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Registered: 08/10/01
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Re: Destiny [Re: PlowKing]
    #372080 - 08/15/01 03:41 AM (15 years, 3 months ago)

No, I dont he is making excuses for people, i think he is just saying that that ?bankrobber? just robbed that bank because "destiny" wove him (bank robber) into all the situations that made him eventually decide (based on past experience)that robing a bank was a good idea...

You know, Quantum theory suggests that ALL posible possibilities co-exist (parallel dimensions?) (what if i turn right/left.. the possibilities are two)and that we just skim alongthe path we choose...

When tripping and frolicking with unicorns, do NOT,under ANY circumstance, let them persuade you to play the innocent childrens game "leapfrog"


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Invisiblebaloo
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Registered: 08/14/01
Posts: 14
Re: Destiny [Re: Revelation]
    #372207 - 08/15/01 10:09 AM (15 years, 3 months ago)

What is a crime to a Christian eg Bigamy, is not a crime to a Mormon. Society enacts laws to protect the interests of individuals. But we make the mistake of judging a transgression of a law as ?bad?, when actually it is just an expression of an individual.
Laws are necessary to allow the greatest number of people to live and grow. When eventually we have grown to the point where we can recognize that everyone?s opinion is valid then less laws are needed.
Chaos may appear threatening but in actuality it is the ultimate reality subject to its own laws that we just don?t happen to understand yet. In other words; There is no such thing as ?Chaos?.




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OfflinePhyl
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Registered: 01/18/00
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Re: Destiny [Re: Revelation]
    #372212 - 08/15/01 10:19 AM (15 years, 3 months ago)

Whilst it's an interesting concept, I think it is flawed because it's not the experiences you have that will influence your descisions, but the lessons you learn from those experiences, and those will be different for everybody.



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InvisiblePynchon
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Registered: 04/28/01
Posts: 578
Loc: New Zealand
Re: Destiny [Re: Phyl]
    #372215 - 08/15/01 10:25 AM (15 years, 3 months ago)

...but the lessons learned will be shaped by life experience. The thing is, even if the universe is deterministic, we're "programmed" to believe we act freely.



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InvisibleNDK
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Registered: 07/13/01
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Re: Destiny [Re: Pynchon]
    #372239 - 08/15/01 11:33 AM (15 years, 3 months ago)

I rather think that we do act freely but only to a limited degree.

I often think that I only really act freely when forced to make a decision consciously. 90% of my actions just happen. Like, I don't even know what words I'm gonna say until they actually come out, I just kind of know what point I'm trying to make.

I don't think this means that "destiny" is a reality though. Destiny implies a plan or at least predictability which, given the almost infinite complexity of brain chemistry doesn't appear to be the case at all.



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InvisibleIshmael
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Registered: 10/29/99
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Re: Destiny [Re: Revelation]
    #374217 - 08/18/01 07:46 PM (15 years, 3 months ago)

I will break with my mould and try to be brief upon this subject (my keyboard is malfunctioning due to humidity). Here in the west (but not neccesarily upon this board) the concepts of fate, destiny, predetermination and Karma are all intertwined like vines rising up out of the same patch of earth.

The answer to the question seems to rise too, out of the comments made by those who posted upon the initial question...

Here I paraphrase: "Most of the time I simply do things...not even thinking about them...even when I speak...the words just come out, wrapping themselves automatically around the point I am trying to make."

If one looks at this statement long enough, you will begin to understand how Fate, Karma and Destiny - three very benign terms in and of themselves - are transmuted to a very loathesome term like predetermination (or lack of free will). Fate, like Karma, is a string of events illicited by a sequence of actions (Karma, in fact, translates roughly to: 'Action'). Action (Fate or Karma) only becomes automatic -only becomes predetermined- when we /ALLOW/ mind (Ego) to make decisions of its own accord. And when we live our whole /lives/ allowing ego to make a majority of our decisions for us, it is no wonder we arrive at the End and feel disconnected. We have been disconnected from the entire PROCESS...why should the end be any different? We rightly feel at that point that our lifetime has had some 'external' force guiding it and we have had no control. Once you resign yourself to the state of a mere passenger in your lifetime, moving about as a automaton, you accept the fate with which your Ego has been programmed by Culture and experience (usually the path of least resistance). Only through constant mindfulness can one remove ego from is totalitarian rulership of one's actions. You can choose your own action if you can learn to be more presently aware of the situations you are expriencing and the decisions you are making. Only then will you be able to eliminate your feelings of disconnection from the life you lead.

Ish





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OfflineMaxawow
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Re: Destiny [Re: Revelation]
    #375490 - 08/21/01 06:04 AM (15 years, 3 months ago)

and so ........all you need is love
and when its all said and done....... love is all you need

---Its like being stoned in 3-D!


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---Its like being stoned in 3-D!


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OfflineUwila
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Registered: 08/12/01
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Re: Destiny [Re: Ishmael]
    #376198 - 08/22/01 08:46 AM (15 years, 3 months ago)

In reply to:

Only through constant mindfulness can one remove ego from is totalitarian rulership of one's actions. You can choose your own action if you can learn to be more presently aware of the situations you are expriencing and the decisions you are making. Only then will you be able to eliminate your feelings of disconnection from the life you lead.



I see a similarity between your answer and Shen Xiu's response in the story of Hui Neng, the Sixth Patriarch.

Actually, a friend pointed this out to me:

http://www.chinapage.org/zen/huineng.html




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InvisibleIshmael
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Registered: 10/29/99
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Re: Destiny [Re: Uwila]
    #376499 - 08/22/01 04:39 PM (15 years, 3 months ago)

It is a good revelation, the understanding of the nature of illusion and that no-thing can exist (That all things are no-thing). And this too includes mind. Being mindful is not the constant maintenence of the mind, as a janitor. But mindfulness is rather the acknowledgement of the mind as illusion and the process of limiting its ability to spur one into the constant cycle of RE-action to cercumstance that breeds our sense of inexorable destiny.

Ish



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Invisibletak
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Re: Destiny [Re: Ishmael]
    #376833 - 08/23/01 03:02 AM (15 years, 3 months ago)

Someone posted up there about quantum theory, i have no clue what it states but i thought about it. I dunno if its alternate dimensions or what, but if space goes on forever, theres bound to be a planet with life, if theres bound to be that then somewhere in FOREVER there in bound to be one as a clone of us with people making maybe 1 diffren choice from the existance on man kind, changing the world forever, and if theres that planet theres likely to be another one, and forever doesnt end, you imagine

--tak


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The DJ's took pills to stay awake and play for seven days.


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