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OfflineFreeLaws1_6
No Hippy Here

Registered: 01/11/05
Posts: 427
Loc: Tejas
Last seen: 11 years, 10 months
Women brain vs. man brain
    #3671602 - 01/24/05 10:34 AM (12 years, 5 months ago)

http://www.nytimes.com/2005/01/24/science/24women.html?pagewanted=1&th&oref=login

Here's an article about the difference between men and women's brain! It is really interesting. It is from the Ney Work Times so you may need to login to see it (i would suggest doing it anyway, you can sign up for a free electronic newsletter. It has some pretty interesting stuff)

But if you dont want to do that I took some excerpt I thought were interesting to post here. And if you want the full story PM me and I will copy and paste it for you!



?For example, neuroscientists have shown that women's brains are about 10 percent smaller than men's, on average, even after accounting for women's comparatively smaller body size.?


?A century ago, the French scientist Gustav Le Bon pointed to the smaller brains of women - closer in size to gorillas', he said - and said that explained the "fickleness, inconstancy, absence of thought and logic, and incapacity to reason" in women.?

?Overall size aside, some evidence suggests that female brains are relatively more endowed with gray matter - the prized neurons thought to do the bulk of the brain's thinking - while men's brains are packed with more white matter, the tissue between neurons.?

?Men, they said, appear to devote 6.5 times as much of their gray matter to intelligence-related tasks as do women, while women rely far more heavily on white matter to pull them through a ponder.?

?The modest size and regional variability of the sex differences in math scores, as well as an attitudinal handicap that girls apparently pack into their No. 2 pencil case, convince many researchers that neither sex has a monopoly on basic math ability, and that culture rather than chromosomes explains findings like the gap in math SAT scores.?

?For Dr. Summers and others, the overwhelmingly male tails of the bell curve may be telling. Such results, taken together with assorted other neuro-curiosities like the comparatively greater number of boys with learning disorders, autism and attention deficit disorder, suggest to them that the male brain is a delicate object, inherently prone to extremes, both of incompetence and of genius.?

?In many formerly male-dominated fields like medicine and law, women have already reached parity, at least at the entry levels. At the undergraduate level, women outnumber men in some sciences like biology.?

?Dr. Urry cited a 1983 study in which 360 people - half men, half women - rated mathematics papers on a five-point scale. On average, the men rated them a full point higher when the author was "John T. McKay" than when the author was "Joan T. McKay." There was a similar, but smaller disparity in the scores the women gave.?


--------------------
Free Laws: Things to understand before I am Free

1. I am alone
2. There is Nothing
3. I must actualize myself
4. Sex is a tool for pleasure, not status
5. Dependency restricts me
6. Emotions are dangerous if not administered properly



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OfflineFreeLaws1_6
No Hippy Here

Registered: 01/11/05
Posts: 427
Loc: Tejas
Last seen: 11 years, 10 months
Re: Women brain vs. man brain [Re: FreeLaws1_6]
    #3671665 - 01/24/05 11:14 AM (12 years, 5 months ago)

It is quite intriguing to me that there is such a difference! I think that it can be explained evolutionarily. If you look at the natural roles of males and females they are sort of exemplified in culture.

For example, men are traditionally the hunters- today they are the traditional workers (bring home the bacon). In being a hunter you need to be on your toes, quickly analyze situations, be creative, it seems all around their brains need to be more quick and complex.

Where as women are primarily child and home care providers. Though taking care of children and home aren't by any means easy, it simply requires a less complex problem solving brain. However, they do need better communication skill and facial recognition ability. This is a big subject in Psychology (one of my favorite pursuits).

If you know much about the brain at all, you'll know there are essentially "two brains"- the right and the left. Each side specializes in different skills, but they need to work together for full functionality. Women are have more strength in the Left side of the brain which has to do with communication and language (among other things). Where as men have a stronger Right side, which has to do with abstract thinking and math.

They've even done "split-brain" surgery where the corpus callosum (the nerves that hold the two sides together and communicate between the two) is cut and observed how the two brains work independently. Fucking interesting!

I could go on for a while. Perhaps someone would else like to contribute!


--------------------
Free Laws: Things to understand before I am Free

1. I am alone
2. There is Nothing
3. I must actualize myself
4. Sex is a tool for pleasure, not status
5. Dependency restricts me
6. Emotions are dangerous if not administered properly



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OfflinePhluck
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Registered: 04/11/99
Posts: 11,393
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Re: Women brain vs. man brain [Re: FreeLaws1_6]
    #3671673 - 01/24/05 11:22 AM (12 years, 5 months ago)


Where as women are primarily child and home care providers. Though taking care of children and home aren't by any means easy, it simply requires a less complex problem solving brain. However, they do need better communication skill and facial recognition ability. This is a big subject in Psychology (one of my favorite pursuits).


They do have some math skills that tend to be superior to men, they generally have an easier time interpreting formulas and things of that nature. Kind of a language skills thing, I think.

In the studies where the found the female brain was more receptive to facial/social cues, they also found that these traits vary a lot. There are lots of men who have these abilities at the same level or higher than most women, and vice versa, so when you look at the data as a whole, it's a matter of odds. There is a higher probability that the sexes will adapt certain traits, but it is still extremely common for someone to be skilled at things that the opposite sex more commonly can do better.


--------------------
"I have no valid complaint against hustlers. No rational bitch. But the act of selling is repulsive to me. I harbor a secret urge to whack a salesman in the face, crack his teeth and put red bumps around his eyes." -Hunter S Thompson
http://phluck.is-after.us


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InvisibleCherryBomM
Yoga Gypsy
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Registered: 12/27/98
Posts: 11,115
Loc: Ontario
Re: Women brain vs. man brain [Re: Phluck]
    #3671681 - 01/24/05 11:29 AM (12 years, 5 months ago)

So basically, while we are both instinctively different, it's pretty much our differences that make us similar.

Although these studies are really neat, they almost seem pointless with all the cycling they do.


--------------------


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OfflineFreeLaws1_6
No Hippy Here

Registered: 01/11/05
Posts: 427
Loc: Tejas
Last seen: 11 years, 10 months
Re: Women brain vs. man brain [Re: CherryBom]
    #3671699 - 01/24/05 11:39 AM (12 years, 5 months ago)

I agree that the article goes around a little bit. Doesn't really express a good case of the differences and how they really pertain to life. But it does open up some of these ideas to the public- that there COULD be significant differences in the biology of men and women that account for the disparity between men and women.

It seems to me personally that as far as intellectuals go, there are a boomingly obvious difference between men and women. Men seem to pursue more and with more vigor, going out on limbs and trying new and adventurous things. Not that women dont do that, but it seems men do it more naturally.

I know I have had to overcome a lot of my programming (evolutionarily speaking) to become more intellectual. And the majority of people I learn and adventure with are guys (in fact I live with three...and no women besides me). I wish there to be more women doing this stuff though...I wish for there to be more men doing it too.

People unfortunately, whether men or women, seem generally to be lazy and unmotivated to learn, explore and be open minded!


--------------------
Free Laws: Things to understand before I am Free

1. I am alone
2. There is Nothing
3. I must actualize myself
4. Sex is a tool for pleasure, not status
5. Dependency restricts me
6. Emotions are dangerous if not administered properly



Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
OfflinePhluck
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Registered: 04/11/99
Posts: 11,393
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Last seen: 29 days, 17 hours
Re: Women brain vs. man brain [Re: CherryBom]
    #3671716 - 01/24/05 11:46 AM (12 years, 5 months ago)

Well, we still get little clues as to how our brains grow and develop, but it's dangerous to use this information to try and explain the everyday behaviour of men and women, as it'll lead to so many false assumptions about people and why they're acting certain ways.

The thing that worries me the most is people using this information to try and justify sexist stereotypes, or "so that's why my ex-girlfriend wouldn't shut up and couldn't handle simple math", that kind of thing, which would be a pretty big misinterpretation of the data.


--------------------
"I have no valid complaint against hustlers. No rational bitch. But the act of selling is repulsive to me. I harbor a secret urge to whack a salesman in the face, crack his teeth and put red bumps around his eyes." -Hunter S Thompson
http://phluck.is-after.us


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OfflineFreeLaws1_6
No Hippy Here

Registered: 01/11/05
Posts: 427
Loc: Tejas
Last seen: 11 years, 10 months
Re: Women brain vs. man brain [Re: Phluck]
    #3671723 - 01/24/05 11:48 AM (12 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

Phluck said:

They do have some math skills that tend to be superior to men, they generally have an easier time interpreting formulas and things of that nature. Kind of a language skills thing, I think.

In the studies where the found the female brain was more receptive to facial/social cues, they also found that these traits vary a lot. There are lots of men who have these abilities at the same level or higher than most women, and vice versa, so when you look at the data as a whole, it's a matter of odds. There is a higher probability that the sexes will adapt certain traits, but it is still extremely common for someone to be skilled at things that the opposite sex more commonly can do better.




Oh absolutely! I dont want to seem like Im suggesting a Scientific Law about the sexes and the sides of the brain. However, it is certainly true that the majority of men/women fit the qualities. No person is limited at all to their sex' side to the brain.

Also, if you look at the "strength" of the sides of the brain in comparison to which "hand" you are there are interesting finds. For example, people who are left handed have a more developed right hemisphere and vice versa. (Oddly enough the information you take in with one side of your body is registered by the other side of your brain). So the information that you see with your left eye is registered in your Right Occipital lobe (which has to do with vision).

Again, the brain and psychology is absolutely amazing!


--------------------
Free Laws: Things to understand before I am Free

1. I am alone
2. There is Nothing
3. I must actualize myself
4. Sex is a tool for pleasure, not status
5. Dependency restricts me
6. Emotions are dangerous if not administered properly



Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
OfflineFreeLaws1_6
No Hippy Here

Registered: 01/11/05
Posts: 427
Loc: Tejas
Last seen: 11 years, 10 months
Re: Women brain vs. man brain [Re: Phluck]
    #3671739 - 01/24/05 11:56 AM (12 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

Phluck said:
Well, we still get little clues as to how our brains grow and develop, but it's dangerous to use this information to try and explain the everyday behaviour of men and women, as it'll lead to so many false assumptions about people and why they're acting certain ways.

The thing that worries me the most is people using this information to try and justify sexist stereotypes, or "so that's why my ex-girlfriend wouldn't shut up and couldn't handle simple math", that kind of thing, which would be a pretty big misinterpretation of the data.




Well, sure if one is going to base their assumptions off of one article. The whole field of Psychology is dedicated to figuring out such things. The purpose is to figure how the brain works, and once we have a better understanding then we can work to change what we want.

For example, I understand that because of my biology I am more apt to be dependent on people as well as be more submissive. And it is very true that for a long time I was and the pull is still there do revert to that. However, by having an understanding of that, I have better been able to overcome it...sort of like "identifying the enemy".

As far as the people who use that info to justify stereotypes...stereotypes will exist with or without the exploration of science. In fact I would say that they would exist more without the studies because ignorance is the cause of stereotyping.


--------------------
Free Laws: Things to understand before I am Free

1. I am alone
2. There is Nothing
3. I must actualize myself
4. Sex is a tool for pleasure, not status
5. Dependency restricts me
6. Emotions are dangerous if not administered properly



Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
OfflinePhluck
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Registered: 04/11/99
Posts: 11,393
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Re: Women brain vs. man brain [Re: FreeLaws1_6]
    #3671750 - 01/24/05 12:02 PM (12 years, 5 months ago)

It seems to me personally that as far as intellectuals go, there are a boomingly obvious difference between men and women. Men seem to pursue more and with more vigor, going out on limbs and trying new and adventurous things. Not that women dont do that, but it seems men do it more naturally.

That's a good point, which might not be so much a difference in brain structure as a social difference, or it could just be more testosterone.

Take the politics or spirituality and philosophy forums here, it's mostly men interested in debate. When women visit them, they usually express their opinions and leave it at that, while men will get caught up in the competition of the whole thing. The nature of men wanted to pursue things might be based entirely on wanted to show one another up. Looking at it from an evolutionary perspective, it's fairly evident that women are attracted to men who do well competatively, and it would make sense that they would pass on their genes, and these traits, creating men that had the desire to achieve various things.

It's hard to say how much of it is social, and how much is biological, as people also tend to emulate the sexual choices that are normal in society.

But it's kind of strange to think that maybe the reason art, science, atheletics, etc... exist as they do today because they got our ancestors laid.

It's become much more socially encouraged for women to pursue various things now, and it's certainly more common to see successful women in all sorts of fields these days. There still tends to be slightly different attitudes and approaches between the sexes when it comes to achievement, women still seem a little less competative. There are probably even cases when this lack of competative drive allows them to achieve things without losing focus on the genuine reasons they wanted to achieve things in the first place.


--------------------
"I have no valid complaint against hustlers. No rational bitch. But the act of selling is repulsive to me. I harbor a secret urge to whack a salesman in the face, crack his teeth and put red bumps around his eyes." -Hunter S Thompson
http://phluck.is-after.us


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InvisiblePaou
Seeker

Registered: 09/23/04
Posts: 376
Loc: Transcendence
Re: Women brain vs. man brain [Re: FreeLaws1_6]
    #3671762 - 01/24/05 12:07 PM (12 years, 5 months ago)



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OfflineFreeLaws1_6
No Hippy Here

Registered: 01/11/05
Posts: 427
Loc: Tejas
Last seen: 11 years, 10 months
Re: Women brain vs. man brain [Re: Phluck]
    #3671820 - 01/24/05 12:31 PM (12 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

Phluck said:

That's a good point, which might not be so much a difference in brain structure as...it could just be more testosterone.




Actually, women dont have testosterone they have a similar chemical called progesterone (it does basically the same thing- make you horny and aggressive). As far as aggressiveness and sexuality goes- testosterone/progesterone would come into play...however the ability to be successful with these qualities that is where the brain comes in. The more creative, logical, and forward thinking and individual is (which can be seen in their brain activity in the brain) the more effective there test/progesterone is! And because men were working this muscle more during our development period several million years ago (through hunting and such) then that muscle is better developed than women, generally.

Quote:

The nature of men wanted to pursue things might be based entirely on wanted to show one another up. Looking at it from an evolutionary perspective, it's fairly evident that women are attracted to men who do well competitively, and it would make sense that they would pass on their genes, and these traits, creating men that had the desire to achieve various things.




It is true that women feel safer and more attracted to brutes (sometimes)- which makes sense evolutionarily because women needed the best protector for her and her children (so that she could effectively pass on her genes). I agree.

Quote:

It's hard to say how much of it is social, and how much is biological, as people also tend to emulate the sexual choices that are normal in society.




Yes! This is a battle that rages on throughout Psychology...Nature vs. Nurture! I tend to lean more towards nature myself, however I know that nurture can overcome nature easily if worked on. It is interesting to see how perhaps humans are evolving a little bit. For example, women are becoming more independent and involved in the intellectual community than they used to- perhaps this is because society has been pushing women to do so for a little while now. Also, women are beginning to be more attracted to men who are kind and intelligent rather than brute force. We want partners now, not masters! And our environment isn't so brutal that we need cunning killers to hunt down food and scare away prey.

Quote:

But it's kind of strange to think that maybe the reason art, science, athletics, etc... exist as they do today because they got our ancestors laid.




It is a little strange, but when you get down to it, it makes perfect sense! The most redeeming qualities are passed on through getting laid! Except now adays that is changing too! Everyone has babies! From people with down syndrome to overly aggressive spouses, to dumb people. Not to be rude but natural selection doesn't exist anymore. It's a touchy subject.


--------------------
Free Laws: Things to understand before I am Free

1. I am alone
2. There is Nothing
3. I must actualize myself
4. Sex is a tool for pleasure, not status
5. Dependency restricts me
6. Emotions are dangerous if not administered properly



Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
Offlineummikko
sika joka eilenn? on pelkk?sika

Registered: 04/02/03
Posts: 1,222
Loc: Finland
Last seen: 7 years, 1 month
Re: Women brain vs. man brain [Re: FreeLaws1_6]
    #3671837 - 01/24/05 12:36 PM (12 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

FreeLaws1_6 said:
http://www.nytimes.com/2005/01/24/science/24women.html?pagewanted=1&th&oref=login

Here's an article about the difference between men and women's brain! It is really interesting. It is from the Ney Work Times so you may need to login to see it (i would suggest doing it anyway, you can sign up for a free electronic newsletter. It has some pretty interesting stuff)

But if you dont want to do that I took some excerpt I thought were interesting to post here. And if you want the full story PM me and I will copy and paste it for you!



?For example, neuroscientists have shown that women's brains are about 10 percent smaller than men's, on average, even after accounting for women's comparatively smaller body size.?


?A century ago, the French scientist Gustav Le Bon pointed to the smaller brains of women - closer in size to gorillas', he said - and said that explained the "fickleness, inconstancy, absence of thought and logic, and incapacity to reason" in women.?

?Overall size aside, some evidence suggests that female brains are relatively more endowed with gray matter - the prized neurons thought to do the bulk of the brain's thinking - while men's brains are packed with more white matter, the tissue between neurons.?

?Men, they said, appear to devote 6.5 times as much of their gray matter to intelligence-related tasks as do women, while women rely far more heavily on white matter to pull them through a ponder.?

?The modest size and regional variability of the sex differences in math scores, as well as an attitudinal handicap that girls apparently pack into their No. 2 pencil case, convince many researchers that neither sex has a monopoly on basic math ability, and that culture rather than chromosomes explains findings like the gap in math SAT scores.?

?For Dr. Summers and others, the overwhelmingly male tails of the bell curve may be telling. Such results, taken together with assorted other neuro-curiosities like the comparatively greater number of boys with learning disorders, autism and attention deficit disorder, suggest to them that the male brain is a delicate object, inherently prone to extremes, both of incompetence and of genius.?

?In many formerly male-dominated fields like medicine and law, women have already reached parity, at least at the entry levels. At the undergraduate level, women outnumber men in some sciences like biology.?

?Dr. Urry cited a 1983 study in which 360 people - half men, half women - rated mathematics papers on a five-point scale. On average, the men rated them a full point higher when the author was "John T. McKay" than when the author was "Joan T. McKay." There was a similar, but smaller disparity in the scores the women gave.?




Sorry to say this, but this BS. Whoever wrote this article doesn't know shit about neuroscience. :thumbdown: :thumbdown: :thumbdown:

Articles like this pop up every now and then. It's best to ignore them.  :nonono:


--------------------
"All substances are poisons; there is none which is not a poison. The right dose differentiates a poison and a remedy." -Paracelsius


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OfflineFreeLaws1_6
No Hippy Here

Registered: 01/11/05
Posts: 427
Loc: Tejas
Last seen: 11 years, 10 months
Re: Women brain vs. man brain [Re: ummikko]
    #3671854 - 01/24/05 12:42 PM (12 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

ummikko said:

Sorry to say this, but this BS. Whoever wrote this article doesn't know shit about neuroscience. :thumbdown: :thumbdown: :thumbdown:

Articles like this pop up every now and then. It's best to ignore them.  :nonono:




What makes you say that? What about neuroscience is the article's author missing? I'm curious.


--------------------
Free Laws: Things to understand before I am Free

1. I am alone
2. There is Nothing
3. I must actualize myself
4. Sex is a tool for pleasure, not status
5. Dependency restricts me
6. Emotions are dangerous if not administered properly



Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
Invisiblevampirism
Stranger
Male User Gallery

Registered: 03/14/04
Posts: 8,120
Re: Women brain vs. man brain [Re: Phluck]
    #3671858 - 01/24/05 12:44 PM (12 years, 5 months ago)

After warning about the dangers of explaining every day occurances with nuerological research, you do it yourself :p . I have found that women who understand their social stigma are FAR more amibitious and hardworking than most people in general, male or female.


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Invisibleadrug

Registered: 02/04/03
Posts: 15,800
Re: Women brain vs. man brain [Re: FreeLaws1_6]
    #3671925 - 01/24/05 01:03 PM (12 years, 5 months ago)

This article was obviously written by a stupid man. :smirk:


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OfflineFreeLaws1_6
No Hippy Here

Registered: 01/11/05
Posts: 427
Loc: Tejas
Last seen: 11 years, 10 months
Re: Women brain vs. man brain [Re: vampirism]
    #3671927 - 01/24/05 01:03 PM (12 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

Morrowind said:
After warning about the dangers of explaining every day occurances with nuerological research, you do it yourself :p . I have found that women who understand their social stigma are FAR more amibitious and hardworking than most people in general, male or female.




Hmm? Do what myself?


--------------------
Free Laws: Things to understand before I am Free

1. I am alone
2. There is Nothing
3. I must actualize myself
4. Sex is a tool for pleasure, not status
5. Dependency restricts me
6. Emotions are dangerous if not administered properly



Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
Offlineummikko
sika joka eilenn? on pelkk?sika

Registered: 04/02/03
Posts: 1,222
Loc: Finland
Last seen: 7 years, 1 month
Re: Women brain vs. man brain [Re: FreeLaws1_6]
    #3671957 - 01/24/05 01:10 PM (12 years, 5 months ago)

Ok, I'll try to give some examples:

Quote:

some evidence suggests that female brains are relatively more endowed with gray matter - the prized neurons thought to do the bulk of the brain's thinking - while men's brains are packed with more white matter, the tissue between neurons




correction:
White matter= areas of the nervous system consisting mostly of myelinated axons.

Gray matter= areas of the nervous system with a high density of cell bodies and dendrites, and few myelinated axons.

Quote:

Men, they said, appear to devote 6.5 times as much of their gray matter to intelligence-related tasks as do women




Sounds nice, but how do you measure this?

Quote:

while women rely far more heavily on white matter to pull them through a ponder.




:rotfl: :rotfl: WTF? Women think with their axons, men think with cell bodies and dendrites?? :lol:


--------------------
"All substances are poisons; there is none which is not a poison. The right dose differentiates a poison and a remedy." -Paracelsius


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OfflineFreeLaws1_6
No Hippy Here

Registered: 01/11/05
Posts: 427
Loc: Tejas
Last seen: 11 years, 10 months
Re: Women brain vs. man brain [Re: ummikko]
    #3671989 - 01/24/05 01:18 PM (12 years, 5 months ago)

Ha ha


--------------------
Free Laws: Things to understand before I am Free

1. I am alone
2. There is Nothing
3. I must actualize myself
4. Sex is a tool for pleasure, not status
5. Dependency restricts me
6. Emotions are dangerous if not administered properly



Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
OfflinePhluck
Carpal Tunnel
 User Gallery

Registered: 04/11/99
Posts: 11,393
Loc: Canada
Last seen: 29 days, 17 hours
Re: Women brain vs. man brain [Re: vampirism]
    #3671996 - 01/24/05 01:21 PM (12 years, 5 months ago)

After warning about the dangers of explaining every day occurances with nuerological research, you do it yourself :p

I was just pondering based on personal observation, not neuroscience. My observations may not be accurate, they're not based on any kind of study, just the overall impression I get.


--------------------
"I have no valid complaint against hustlers. No rational bitch. But the act of selling is repulsive to me. I harbor a secret urge to whack a salesman in the face, crack his teeth and put red bumps around his eyes." -Hunter S Thompson
http://phluck.is-after.us


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OfflinePhluck
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Re: Women brain vs. man brain [Re: FreeLaws1_6]
    #3672010 - 01/24/05 01:26 PM (12 years, 5 months ago)

It is true that women feel safer and more attracted to brutes (sometimes)- which makes sense evolutionarily because women needed the best protector for her and her children (so that she could effectively pass on her genes). I agree.

I should point out that I also meant men who are successful in anything, respected artists of any kind, businessmen, etc., will certainly attract more women than others. Different people will feel competative satisfaction in different ways, if someone is really good at what they do, there's no need to feel brutish, they are satisfied feeling proud of their accomplishments.


--------------------
"I have no valid complaint against hustlers. No rational bitch. But the act of selling is repulsive to me. I harbor a secret urge to whack a salesman in the face, crack his teeth and put red bumps around his eyes." -Hunter S Thompson
http://phluck.is-after.us


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