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 NiamhNyx
I'm NOT a 'he'
 
Registered: 09/01/02
Posts: 3,198
Last seen: 14 years, 10 months
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 Transcendance. 
#3661743 - 01/22/05 01:37 AM (19 years, 2 months ago) |
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The concept of transcendance seems to be a fairly major focal point in the spiritual philosophies of a lot of people around here, and a lot of people in the modern industrialised west (North America, Europe, etc.) The concept is deeply entrenched into all major religions in some context or another, and it seems to be the ultimate goal of pretty much everyone around the the shroomery. What, all the banter and bragging about reaching level 4 trips and ascending beyond ego and what not... But here's my question: why? What about the ideology of transcendance is so appealing and why do so many people dedicate thier spiritual practice to separating as far as possible from thier bodies and thier earthly conditions? Why are people more interested in an abstract abandonment of the realm that they are living in rather than a dynamic, direct interaction with the plane thier on now? I have my ideas on it, but I'm curious to hear a few responses from other shroomerites before I state my personal view, although I'm sure where I'm coming from is clear by the language I've used in this post.
Thanks.
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exclusive58
illegal alien
Registered: 04/16/04 
Posts: 2,146
Last seen: 6 years, 1 month
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Re: Transcendance. [Re: NiamhNyx]
#3661943 - 01/22/05 03:57 AM (19 years, 2 months ago) |
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"But here's my question: why? What about the ideology of transcendance is so appealing and why do so many people dedicate thier spiritual practice to separating as far as possible from thier bodies and thier earthly conditions?"
Transcending does not mean to separate from your body and from your earthly conditions. In my view it actually means to be more aware of the reality of your existence and to have greater control over your body. Transcendance is your consciousness "breaking through" your ego, you are no longer in survival mode, your are above that. I'm not good at defining what transcendance is though, i suggest you look it up on past shroomery threads or on google.
And why is it so appealing? well, because it comes from an ever-present inner will to evolve!
"Why are people more interested in an abstract abandonment of the realm that they are living in rather than a dynamic, direct interaction with the plane thier on now?"
oohhh, i see where you're coming from, you're talking about ego death on shrooms right? Well, i guess that's a form of transcendance, but it lacks mastership, its transcendance that is not under your own control, it is forced upon you, and plus, it only lasts a little while.
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 redgreenvines
irregular verb
Registered: 04/08/04
Posts: 38,173
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Trancendence means get over it or get beyond it.
when we are sufferring and running in our ruts, the fences to get over seem insurmountably high (1st metaphor).
those fences that corral us are made of the same material - mind, thought & habit.
transcendence applies to dropping the "attachments" or "associations" or "program executions" that we are accustomed to and sitting instead in the "light" (2nd metaphor).
what I mean by that last metaphor, is that when we are running in ruts we pour out our energy to keep on track and shield ourselves from distractions with high mental fences.
So to transcend, is to stop wasting all that grief energy and let the senses reel at the full bandwith impact (that we were holding back).
in itself it does not end sufferring, but if you can "get over it" little by little the low points become less low and the high points more high.
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the_phoenix
Stranger
Registered: 07/07/04
Posts: 541
Loc: Montreal, Quebec, Canada
Last seen: 17 years, 3 months
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Imagine on a sheet of paper you draw three dots equally spaced out and make a triangle with them, and then put a dot in the center. What is this dot's location? It's location can be determined absolutely, using the triangle as reference points. Is this a truth? Now take the paper and wave it in the air. What's the dot's location with regards to the entire room? As the context of it's location expands, the triangle becomes arbitrary and can no longer serve as a point of reference.
The same thing works with truth. Much drug use is absolutely wrong in the context of the law, but if you expand the context then its legality becomes arbitrary.
Now pretend that your ego is the inside area of the triangle. You think you know everything, and indeed you do know all, and in an absolute fashion, that is inside the triangle. You know infinite in a sense, because you know all of your reality, but your reality is less than the whole of true reality. How can you hope to learn of anything beyond the triangle, if all that you have to work with, everything that you know, is from within the triangle?
This recquires transcendence. If you cling to what you know then you'll never surpass it, you'll never discover what else exists beyond the triangle. You'll always be confined to your individual and closed-minded context/reality.
At the limits of anything conventional, things break down paradoxically, pointing clearly to this need of transcendence. You try to make the entire picture coherent only with the reality you know, and of course you fail. Some things don't make sense or remain unexplained. The symbol cannot possibly be all that it symbolizes, for otherwise there would be no distinction between the two.
Are there absolutes? "There are no absolutes." But that in itself is an absolute! "There *are* absolutes" is the only logical conclusion.
But let's be clear: There are absolutes, but also absolutes within absolutes, just as infinite can be understood from within the triangle in an incomplete way. So absolutes do exist but they're relative to the context of the situation/reality. A great flaw of humanity is that we take these absolutes to be the final word, the end product which cannot be expanded upon. Transcendence allows us to understand that they're absolute in one sense, but that we can also expand the context and arrive at new absolutes.
We must never forget to regard a symbol as a symbol, and not as an end product. It exists symbolically, but also points to something greater. If we only view it superficially and ignore what it points to then we remain ignorant towards the greater truth and we never evolve. Transcendence is about doubting the status quo so that it can be improved upon.
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Droz
Love of Life
Registered: 10/15/00
Posts: 2,746
Loc: Floorida
Last seen: 8 years, 8 months
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Escapism.
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Evolution of Time.
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deff
just love everyone
Registered: 05/01/04
Posts: 9,428
Loc: clarity 
Last seen: 1 hour, 54 minutes
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Re: Transcendance. [Re: Droz]
#3662675 - 01/22/05 12:35 PM (19 years, 2 months ago) |
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verrry nice phoenix 
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gettinjiggywithit
jiggy
Registered: 07/20/04
Posts: 7,469
Loc: Heart of Laughter
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Re: Transcendance. [Re: NiamhNyx]
#3665127 - 01/22/05 10:44 PM (19 years, 2 months ago) |
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http://members.austarmetro.com.au/~lofting/myweb/idm007.html
Had this saved in my favs and thought to share for anyone interested. It's a well thought out and covered different perspective on transcendance and transformation. Heady but interesting read.
Funny I was just staring at the word transcendance before I hit continue and saw trance dance in it. Thought to share that for people who like word play stuff.
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Ahuwale ka nane huna.
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Sensismoker
Ganja Guru
Registered: 05/23/04
Posts: 28
Last seen: 18 years, 5 months
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-Transcendance or escaping reality is sought by so many, I believe because it is the reaching out of your soul to a higher power. The idea that we are not in control and that a perfect being is what conducts all is very inviting.
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redgreenvines
irregular verb
Registered: 04/08/04
Posts: 38,173
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wd-40
to transcend the grip of the degenerate mundane
to dance again.
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Droz
Love of Life
Registered: 10/15/00
Posts: 2,746
Loc: Floorida
Last seen: 8 years, 8 months
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Why are we seeking to transcend when deep inside of us we know we are already there. Some have to find that in order to keep themselves in a positive state of mind.
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Evolution of Time.
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incubaby_421
half naked andfull witted
Registered: 08/14/04
Posts: 2,629
Loc: the center of the univers...
Last seen: 5 years, 9 months
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Re: Transcendance. [Re: Droz]
#3667173 - 01/23/05 09:45 AM (19 years, 2 months ago) |
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wow that was wierd, i read a post, looked up, and i too, saw trance dance.
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"yet the more i dig, the more i consume, the more i unfold... the less protected i feel.
i am the spit on the hair of the son of an electron, swimming around the nucleus of a cell inside the sperm of a killer bee, and my purpose is as nebulous as why weve been bestowed with the capacity to give a shit" Brandon Boyd
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gettinjiggywithit
jiggy
Registered: 07/20/04
Posts: 7,469
Loc: Heart of Laughter
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Re: Transcendance. [Re: Droz]
#3667196 - 01/23/05 09:55 AM (19 years, 2 months ago) |
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I see how you are looking at Droz and Sensi and from you points of view I can agree that's what it looks like within those limitations.
There are many other ways to look at this, for one, like what Red said about transforming the mundane perception and experience into the extraordinary EXTRA -ordinary. We come into MORE of what is the greater reality of the self.
It can be seen as a form of transcending-walking through or dissolving the walls between ones false sense of self and the truer divine self.
Sensi you see it as an escape from reality some see it as a way into the greater truer reality beyond the illusion, beyond what only the 5 physical senses experience and beyond the egos eye but to see MORE of the reality at hand with the inner eye, to feel more of the reality at hand with the heart.
Some see it as a way of breaking IN, not busting out, for some see the two as being the same, what is without the self comes within the self and reality only becomes even more greater and real.
Droz, it's away of getting to the deeper self by transforming the shallow self.
Sensi it's a way of reaching in to the higher power, not reaching out.
So you see, we are all talking about the same thing, and it would seem that you both haven't considered the how many ways there are to go about self realization.
Droz, if you way was working, would the Jew be able to hold you captive and torture you? Not if you were seeing the greater reality of love and in your higher power.
Sensi ganga man, (welcome by the way  ) when you smoke the herb, what exactly is it you are doing? You are either escaping your reality or you are tuning into more of it, or a different experiential facet of the greater one. Same difference you use the herb to transform and transcend your reality for a time.
There is no opposition here, it only looks that way. 
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Ahuwale ka nane huna.
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incubaby_421
half naked andfull witted
Registered: 08/14/04
Posts: 2,629
Loc: the center of the univers...
Last seen: 5 years, 9 months
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OH GOD!!! DROZ!!! YOU HAVENT ESCAPED THE JEWS YET!!!!
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"yet the more i dig, the more i consume, the more i unfold... the less protected i feel.
i am the spit on the hair of the son of an electron, swimming around the nucleus of a cell inside the sperm of a killer bee, and my purpose is as nebulous as why weve been bestowed with the capacity to give a shit" Brandon Boyd
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gettinjiggywithit
jiggy
Registered: 07/20/04
Posts: 7,469
Loc: Heart of Laughter
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Maybe if he gives this transcendence transformation stuff another look, he can transform his experience with them into one of equanimity and harmony and understanding and come into the fuller realization that we are one love one mind with all.
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Ahuwale ka nane huna.
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Sensismoker
Ganja Guru
Registered: 05/23/04
Posts: 28
Last seen: 18 years, 5 months
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Quote:
Sensi ganga man, (welcome by the way ) when you smoke the herb, what exactly is it you are doing? You are either escaping your reality or you are tuning into more of it, or a different experiential facet of the greater one. Same difference you use the herb to transform and transcend your reality for a time.
-well first of all let me say all Christians are hippocrites, as it would be impossible to be Christian and not hippocritical.
-That being said, I truly believe that drugs of any kind draw you to the one true God.When you have the pre-knowledge of biblical teachings and take hallucinogens like mushrooms, this is very evident.
-drugs pull you in, but also blind you to things along the way.
You must be very wary of these hindrances, the drugs effect is so real that most anything can be, and will be perceived as truth.
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Moonshoe
Blue Mantis
Registered: 05/28/04
Posts: 27,202
Loc: Iceland
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Re: Transcendance. [Re: NiamhNyx]
#3667572 - 01/23/05 11:58 AM (19 years, 2 months ago) |
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"why do so many people dedicate thier spiritual practice to separating as far as possible from thier bodies and thier earthly conditions? Why are people more interested in an abstract abandonment of the realm that they are living in rather than a dynamic, direct interaction with the plane thier on now? "
damn good question and very timely for me. previously i thought transcendence, scholasticism, etc were of key importance. with the dawning of 2005 ive been readjusted... now life is dynamic, visceral, and involved. Right now im a child in a sensation playground, fully embracing the beuties of this plane in all its sacredness, unafraid, pushin the limits.
HOWEVER, this plane is sacred, but also temporal. It is not eternal. THere are other planes of existance accesible from this plane that will help prepare us for 'what comes next'
also, we want to be anchored in this reality but not chained to it. We want to be as free as possible, and that involves being able to freely travel the planes of conciousness.
so i say. live life with zest, fuck like rabbits, touch and play and dance and sing and laugh, But realze that beauty fades and flesh withers, and if your entire existance centers on that temporal stuff... you will be unhappy indeed as your end draws nigh.
if however, you learn early on to soar through the various planes of existance, then even as a crippeld old man your spirit will be free.
Its hard for me right now. this is a phase of my life where im really discovering my sexuality, and the fun stuff this life has to offer. Lots of people are really giving me positive feedback on my appearance and stuff, and well, im having fun, but i think thats why its so important not to get decieved by that, because that stuff is temporary. Theres nothing more tragic than the aged beauty queen living in her memories of being the hot socialite or whatever.
You gotta invest in the eternal, well savouring the temporary for what it is.
so transcendence, to summarize, is so important because it lasts forever, it TRANSCENDCE, Time and Death and age. thats why it is the highest prize, beyond all the sex and fun in the world/
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Everything I post is fiction.
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NiamhNyx
I'm NOT a 'he'
Registered: 09/01/02
Posts: 3,198
Last seen: 14 years, 10 months
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Re: Transcendance. [Re: Moonshoe]
#3670749 - 01/24/05 01:25 AM (19 years, 2 months ago) |
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Why do so many people crave deathlessness, eternity, being above and beyond, being better higher, more more more???
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NiamhNyx
I'm NOT a 'he'
Registered: 09/01/02
Posts: 3,198
Last seen: 14 years, 10 months
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Re: Transcendance. [Re: NiamhNyx]
#3670775 - 01/24/05 01:33 AM (19 years, 2 months ago) |
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Does anyone else think spirituality can exist without dreaming of being higher, better, farther, above the earth, above our bodies, past the "triviality" of earthly existance?
What about a spirituality that is dynamically interconnected with being alive? A spirituality that doesn't assume the earth is a prison and that there is something better beyond the body? What about knowing every tree, every bug, every drop of soil in one's habitat deeply and intensely? What about understanding every contour of one's own body and how that interrelates to one's environment? What about not searching off into abstraction for "reality" but looking extremely closely at what we have... What about animism, what about the divinity of everyday life?
I don't want to transcend anything, I want to connect. I want to be a part of my ecosystem and understand how she functions and what she needs, I want to know my body. I want to pay attention to here, now, reality. I don't want to stick my nose is some books on mysticism and intellectualize my way to some higher plane. give me time together with a patch of land. That's spiritual. To hell with transcendance. I feel that it's a distraction.
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TinTree
thread killer(semi pro)
Registered: 02/15/04
Posts: 1,456
Loc: Mu
Last seen: 15 years, 10 months
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Re: Transcendance. [Re: NiamhNyx]
#3670778 - 01/24/05 01:34 AM (19 years, 2 months ago) |
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Human nature. Or rather, nature of the ego keeps us hunting after life eternal and freedom from cares.
Transcendence is key in spiritual practice, so that once we reach the top of the mountain, we can go back down and re-enter life in a samadhi of innocent delight, putting ourselves into practice and utility in the world; this corresponds to the last of the Ten Ox-herding Stages of Zen, "Entering the Marketplace with Healing Hands".
Quote:
Barechested,barefooted, he comes into the marketplace.
Muddied and dust-covered, how broadly he grins!
Without recourse to mystic powers,
withered trees he swiftly brings to bloom!
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"I'm afraid of losing my obscurity. Genuineness only thrives in the dark. Like celery."
- Aldous Huxley
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Xygyg
Somulate
Registered: 01/21/05
Posts: 63
Loc: Texas
Last seen: 14 years, 10 months
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 Re: Transcendance. [Re: NiamhNyx]
#3670783 - 01/24/05 01:36 AM (19 years, 2 months ago) |
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I don't crave it, it's more like i'm drawn towards some sort of inevitable transformation.
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"There are no facts, only interpretations."
from Nietzsche's Nachlass
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