silversoul7 said:

No one said "majority," though his posters are selling quite well in many areas over there.

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zappaisgod said:

Has anyone at any point mentioned the word majority?

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zappaisgod said:

Of a lot of that them

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zahudulallah said:

Do you believe that OBL represents the sentiments of Muslims?

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zappaisgod said:

Apparently, there is no consensus muslim sentiment. Thus it is disingenuous to speak of any global muslim sentiment that resents American intervention. The fact is, there is no muslim consensus. Just some muslims with resentments and some without. Just like any other group

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zahudulallah said:

zappaisgod said:

Apparently, there is no consensus muslim sentiment. Thus it is disingenuous to speak of any global muslim sentiment that resents American intervention. The fact is, there is no muslim consensus. Just some muslims with resentments and some without. Just like any other group

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the correct thing to do is not generalize.

And resenting the United States for its foreign policy doesn't equate to sympathy for al-Qaeda.

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zahudulallah said:

Muslims have a right to self defense. Muslims are being attacked by a foreign invader so Muslims have the right to resist. If you don't like it, tough.

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DirtMcgirt said:

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So our government is destined to never change and ultimately make the same incorrect decisions over and over again.

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It can change but it hasn't and the Bush admin hasn't given any any indications that it will. You don't trust the gov to spend your money? Why not...they can change I swear!
Its not that i don't trust the government with my money, I just don't want them taking it. And how could we tell if the Bush admin changed if we didn't give it time to see what occurred. I mean things seem to be going alrite in afgan.

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Of course none of this matters as the other option which is to leave will prove to be a worse outcome then if we stayed. What a great way to disenfranchise every single iraqi we havent already. What a fucking great idea.

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You are right. We can't leave the country now and I'm not saying we should. That would result in big problems for Iraqis and Americans.

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And i don't trust them to do this, the possible outcome based on what has occurred already seems better if we stayed than if we left. The issue still remains that what the insurgents are doing is counter productive and their tactics are retarded.

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What already occured? The installment of a dictator or the creation of a state that has no business being one in the first place by foreign powers? Seems to be happening all over again. The insurgents fighiting back is an emotional response to being invaded and having their infrastucture blown to hell. You would be doing the same thing if you were in that position. They are resisting what is happening right now. There is no indication of a democracy being set up so why wouldn't they resist? It might actually get them somewhere. If we atttempted to show some kind of institution that they could see as a future maybe the popular support the insurgents receive would die. Its counter productive for the US to level cities and blow shit up and call insurgents bad names without offering much of a solution besides "trust us, we got a big military!".

By what already occurred i meant we're there and we can't change that so we need to find the best solution now.

And i would give you the whole emotional thing but the problem is that insurgents have begun to attack primarily soft targets, infrastructure, and are chopping off people heads who have a loose affiliation with the coalition(usually not even combative). As well a lot of the insurgents attacks result in collateral damage. The insurgents don't give a damn about their fellow man, they are doing what they are doing for another reason. If someone invaded miami i would not be blowing up my neighbors left and right just to kill a couple invaders.

Your claim that the insurgents are popularly supported is unfounded.

What exactly do you suggest we show these insurgents to prove we will set up a stable democracy? If that is the reason they are fighting.

And finally we are not leveling cities. The operation to route out the insurgents has been quite surgical so far. As for the future, i don't know.

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First of all the insurgency is likely several thousand. And i don't accept your point that if the majority of the iraqis were on our side insurgents would be getting caught with their help. Most countries apart from America and especially 3rd world countries differs greatly from America. America was founded on a watch dog mentality as one could discover if they studied the purtian origin of America. In places like Iraq people tend to leave others alone as life is very cheap along with a multiplitude of reasons.

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Gee, thanks for your sociology lesson on Iraq! You must have lived there or at least known a dozen or so citizens. It's thickheaded assumptions like this that got us into this problem. Iraq hasn't had reliable power or water services since we invaded and I think that gives the people a reason to have interest in what is going on with their neighbors. I'm don't assume fanatical resistors would be caught right away but at least the military could focus on them instead of damn near every Arabic looking person. Watchdog mentality? This sure as hell doesn't seem to happen around where I live nor any other city I've lived in either.

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zahudulallah said:

That's not a generalizing.

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