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Re: One thing to be thankful for... [Re: SoopaX]
    #3409289 -

See, all you have is rhetoric. The Iraqi Muslims have are their dead loved ones in their hands.

A foreign invader is killing Muslims. I repeat, Muslims will defend themselves. If you do not like it, TOUGH.


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Re: One thing to be thankful for... [Re: zahudulallah]
    #3409302 -

If an Iraqi fighting for "freedom" kills 50 innocent Iraqi Muslims who were not helping the coalition forces in any way and the attack also kills 10 Marines would the attacker be punished under Islamic law?

According to your recent post isn't killing one innocent person a sentance to hell?

Isn't saving one innocent person a reprieve?


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Jackie Treehorn treats objects like women, man

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Re: One thing to be thankful for... [Re: SoopaX]
    #3409314 -

How many fucking times do I have to say that I don't believe in targetting noncombatants.


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Re: One thing to be thankful for... [Re: zahudulallah]
    #3409334 -


But killing just a few noncombatants? They aren't really the target.

Just like young children in Israel right? If a few die in a suicide bombing it's acceptable.

So why not a few innocent noncombatans?

Say that some Iraqi was helping to set up meal distribution with the US Army so that children could be fed? Would be killed for assisting the occupation? Or would he be seen by you as a noncombatant?

You use these loaded words so that you can sneak around future thrusts into your position. What do you define as a noncombatant?


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Jackie Treehorn treats objects like women, man

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Re: One thing to be thankful for... [Re: SoopaX]
    #3409345 -

Noncombantant = somebody who isn't involved with a Combatant coalition/force.


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Re: One thing to be thankful for... [Re: Krishna]
    #3409480 -

Krishna said:
:smile: i've read a few books of Milton Friedman's (one he co-authored with his wife) and I wouldn't expect to see him writing for the Times, either. How do the libertarians here feel about him? For me, his policies on education just seem absurd in today's America, what with the level of inequality that we currently have... but I will certainly grant that he is a very intelligent man.


Free To Choose is the Bible for me.  I love Milton Friedman.  His policies on education (vouchers) will one day be the sound policy of this nation.  I give thanks to Milton Friedman.


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Tastes just like chicken

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Re: One thing to be thankful for... [Re: zahudulallah]
    #3409959 -

zahudulallah said:
Noncombantant = somebody who isn't involved with a Combatant coalition/force.


No, no thats not right at all.

http://dictionary.reference.com/search?r=2&q=noncombatant

non?com?bat?ant ( P ) Pronunciation Key (nnkm-btnt, -kmb-tnt)
n.
A member of the armed forces, such as a chaplain or surgeon, whose duties lie outside combat.
A civilian in wartime, especially one in a war zone.


noncombatant

\Non*com"bat*ant\, n. (Mil.) Any person connected with an army, or within the lines of an army, who does not make it his business to fight, as any one of the medical officers and their assistants, chaplains, and others; also, any of the citizens of a place occupied by an army; also, any one holding a similar position with respect to the navy.





noncombatant

adj 1: used of civilians in time of war 2: member of armed forces whose duties do not include fighting as e.g. a chaplain or surgeon n : a member of the armed forces who does not participate in combat (e.g. a chaplain or surgeon)




I ask again

If an Iraqi was helping to build a police station in his neighborhood with some Army Corps of Engineers, would he be a combatant and open to your form of Muslim Justice, or does he meet the definition of a noncombatant?


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Jackie Treehorn treats objects like women, man

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Re: One thing to be thankful for... [Re: d33p]
    #3411949 -

Quote:
Whether they set up a legitimate government or not is yet to be seen. To obstruct that from occurring to just cause death and dismay is ludacris. I'm a realist.



Your obviously not a realist. As methikist aptly pointed out the US in its entire history of nation building in a country that wasn't pre-industrialized (germany & Japan) we have never set up a legitimate democracy. In fact we've set up nothing but governments that spit in the face of democracy that also happen to serve US political or business interests. A 20 minute history lesson would teach you that. Realistically its laughable for the US to trump its ability to bring freedom to people when it has never done so in the past. So, realistically Iraqis have no reason to assume that the US will set up a legitimate government now. In their mind they are fighting the possibility of the US setting up a government for them. The insurgency wouldn't exist if it only had 2% of the population supporting fighting the occupation.


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"And we, inhabitants of the great coral of the Cosmos, believe the atom (which still we cannot see) to be full matter, whereas, it too, like everything else, is but an embroidery of voids in the Void, and we give the name of being, dense and even eternal, to that dance of inconsistencies, that infinite extension that is identified with absolute Nothingness and that spins from its own non-being the illusion of everything."

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Re: One thing to be thankful for... [Re: SoopaX]
    #3412093 -

Like I said, those who are connected to the Invaders are not innocent and are combatants.


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Re: One thing to be thankful for... [Re: zahudulallah]
    #3412442 -

So you go against every single dictionary entry and simple grammatical logic to state that a person holding a hammer to help rebuilt a water purification center is a 'combatant'? Thats why I kept asking you questions,to elicit that exact answer. IF you want the Iraqis to be dirt poor and starving, living in third world conditions, then keep supporting the insurgents.

It seems like the US is making short work of decimating them.


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Jackie Treehorn treats objects like women, man

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Re: One thing to be thankful for... [Re: SoopaX]
    #3412451 -

So, when the U.S. drops a bomb on a "suspected terrorist" while he's praying, eating, sleeping or whatever... what do you call him?

Or the killing of sheikh yassin.. bombed to death in his wheelchair while attending the early morning prayers.

These days you don't have to have a gun in your hand to be considered a combatant.


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Re: One thing to be thankful for... [Re: zahudulallah]
    #3412455 -

You are using the fact that "the other side" commits atrocities to justify your own atrocities. The US shouldn't be bombing indiscriminately, the Palestine Authority should have arrested Yassin for his complicity in terrorist activities. So if you think that those actions are wrong then why do you think it's OK when Islamicists do it to coalition troops?

Or to Iraqi women who have been striving to help that country for thirty years?


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Jackie Treehorn treats objects like women, man

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Re: One thing to be thankful for... [Re: SoopaX]
    #3412468 -

You misinterpretted me.

I don't consider the likes of Sheikh Yassin a noncombatant, even though he's in a wheelchair.

When the U.S. tries to take out someone who's guilty of associating with insurgents, they often end up killing alot of innocent people in the process.

The resistance simply beheads them individually. No innocent noncombatants get hurt.

And don't say that the resistance beheads people randomly... they will detain foreigners in the country, and if it is found that they are connected with the Coalition, they will be executed and rightly so under Islamic Law which permits captured enemies to be executed.


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Re: One thing to be thankful for... [Re: SoopaX]
    #3412483 -

Quote:
Or to Iraqi women who have been striving to help that country for thirty years?


Actually, whoever killed Hassan (May God reward her) was a renegade. The leader of the Resistance, Abu Musab al Zarqawi publically stated he wanted Hassan released.


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Re: One thing to be thankful for... [Re: SoopaX]
    #3412523 -

IF you want the Iraqis to be dirt poor and starving, living in third world conditions, then keep supporting the insurgents.

Do you think the Iraqis are going to be any better off under a US installed puppet dictator signing their country away to foreign multinationals?

It seems like the US is making short work of decimating them.

It seemed like that in Vietnam too.


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Don't worry, B. Caapi

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Re: One thing to be thankful for... [Re: DirtMcgirt]
    #3415499 -

DirtMcgirt said:
Quote:
Whether they set up a legitimate government or not is yet to be seen. To obstruct that from occurring to just cause death and dismay is ludacris. I'm a realist.



Your obviously not a realist. As methikist aptly pointed out the US in its entire history of nation building in a country that wasn't pre-industrialized (germany & Japan) we have never set up a legitimate democracy. In fact we've set up nothing but governments that spit in the face of democracy that also happen to serve US political or business interests. A 20 minute history lesson would teach you that. Realistically its laughable for the US to trump its ability to bring freedom to people when it has never done so in the past. So, realistically Iraqis have no reason to assume that the US will set up a legitimate government now. In their mind they are fighting the possibility of the US setting up a government for them. The insurgency wouldn't exist if it only had 2% of the population supporting fighting the occupation.


Our government changes ya know. Those who set up unfavorable regimes in the past are generally not those in power now, so it is realistic to believe that progress could have been made. History should have taught you that, i guess school failed with you. The argument boils down to this: we are there to set up a stable government and then leave, the insurgents want us to leave so they fight us, the insurgents fighting us do not allow us to set up a stable government so we stay.

Even if i completely supported the insurgents now, if i were the leader i would have them completely quiet down until the stable government was set up and America left. If we(the insurgents) could incite a civil war after they left it is unlikely America would involve itself. And by the time they come back if they did, i would have gained more supporters, more munitions, and better positions. Although i would fear that America would honor its word and set up a good government and stabilize the country. If this was allowed to occur the large majority of iraqis supporting the effort would possibly unite to defeat the insurgents.

And your last sentence is complete bs. Guerrilla tactics and operations can be effective with a very small amount of people. Do you understand how easy it is. If i had 100 devout followers i could bring America to its knees. Heck blowing up the governers' mansions in all 50 states would not be too difficult alone and that would just be phase 1. I feel the success of the operations in iraqi can be evidenced by the fact that hundreds if not thousands are not dying every day over there.


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I'm a nihilist. Lets be friends.

bang bang

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Re: One thing to be thankful for... [Re: d33p]
    #3415605 -

we are there to set up a stable government and then leave

Have you been listening to "When a child is born" by Johnny Mathis? It's about as realistic.

You are there so rich corporations can make themselves even richer by privatising everything worth a damn and overcharging and ripping off Iraq to "rebuild" the shit you bombed in the first place. Then leaving the bill with the Iraqis for the next 100 years.

If this was allowed to occur the large majority of iraqis supporting the effort would possibly unite to defeat the insurgents.

Look out of the window and tell me how many suns you see on your planet.

If i had 100 devout followers i could bring America to its knees.

Yeah whatever. You let us know where you and your 100 devout followers meet up and I'll send my 76 year old grandma round to put you all to bed without any supper  :rolleyes:


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Don't worry, B. Caapi

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Re: One thing to be thankful for... [Re: d33p]
    #3415617 -

Quote:
Our government changes ya know. Those who set up unfavorable regimes in the past are generally not those in power now, so it is realistic to believe that progress could have been made. History should have taught you that, i guess school failed with you.



No, the people who set up these regimes in the past (especially the ones from 15-20 years ago) still control America. They are called democrats and republicans. What gives you the idea that this government has changed since say, um, the Reagan era? Or the Clinton one? Governments can change but this one hasn't. I'm saying that it's completely egocentric to assume that any country let alone the US is going to set up a regime that will serve the people before the occupiers. Given the US's track record that doubt is given tons of weight. Why should they trust us to set up a regime that is there to serve the people? Our good nature? Trust is earned not given and the US in the nation building department hasn't earned any trust from anyone. I wish I could sell you my car since you seem to be so easy to trust anybody. I'm assuming your right leaning and since you don't trust the government to spend your money why do you trust them to set up a democratic regime in a rescource rich area?

Quote:
The argument boils down to this: we are there to set up a stable government and then leave, the insurgents want us to leave so they fight us, the insurgents fighting us do not allow us to set up a stable government so we stay


The arguement boils down to the fact that we are not there to set up a stable government, we are there to serve are own interests (even if it was for our own "protection"). The insurgency isn't just one group. It can't be brought down by blowing the shit out of fallujah. It is multiple groups each with their own agendaa.

Quote:
If we(the insurgents) could incite a civil war after they left it is unlikely America would involve itself.


that is a complete crock of shit. We are building many permanent bases there and they aren't going anywhere anytime soon.



Quote:
And your last sentence is complete bs. Guerrilla tactics and operations can be effective with a very small amount of people. Do you understand how easy it is. If i had 100 devout followers i could bring America to its knees. Heck blowing up the governers' mansions in all 50 states would not be too difficult alone and that would just be phase 1.


So what? You seriously think the insurgency is a few hundred people killing thousands? Its the whole fish in the sea analogy. Even if it was a few hundred people they would have a difficult time operating if the population was outraged they were attacking US soldiers. Sure they could be effective for a while but they wouldn't last because the population would help the occupiers catch them. Which doesn't happen right now. Do you really assume the same people chopping heads off are the necessarilly the same RPGing humvee's? By buying the "insurgency" noun your clumping a whole mass of people into under one name and serving the media's and governments's agenda of villifying Iraqis who aren't so happy with the occupation.


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"And we, inhabitants of the great coral of the Cosmos, believe the atom (which still we cannot see) to be full matter, whereas, it too, like everything else, is but an embroidery of voids in the Void, and we give the name of being, dense and even eternal, to that dance of inconsistencies, that infinite extension that is identified with absolute Nothingness and that spins from its own non-being the illusion of everything."

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Re: One thing to be thankful for... [Re: Xlea321]
    #3415657 -

Alex123 said:
we are there to set up a stable government and then leave

Have you been listening to "When a child is born" by Johnny Mathis? It's about as realistic.

You are there so rich corporations can make themselves even richer by privatising everything worth a damn and overcharging and ripping off Iraq to "rebuild" the shit you bombed in the first place. Then leaving the bill with the Iraqis for the next 100 years.

pulled out of your ass

If this was allowed to occur the large majority of iraqis supporting the effort would possibly unite to defeat the insurgents.

Look out of the window and tell me how many suns you see on your planet.

What other reason woudl the insurgents be fighting. Tactically speaking they are either retarded or ummm... just retarded.

If i had 100 devout followers i could bring America to its knees.

Yeah whatever. You let us know where you and your 100 devout followers meet up and I'll send my 76 year old grandma round to put you all to bed without any supper  :rolleyes:


Two people in every state living under the radar can easily construct a truck bomb ala McVeigh style. Construct some type of rudimentary remote control device and at precisely 9:11 pm you drive all 50 trucks into the governers' mansions. It is not hard. I am surprised there haven't been any major attacks on America, i guess the admin is doing a decent job.


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I'm a nihilist. Lets be friends.

bang bang

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Re: One thing to be thankful for... [Re: d33p]
    #3415679 -

pulled out of your ass

Any reasoning behind this? Or is it just the usual ass-blowing?

Tactically speaking they are either retarded or ummm... just retarded.

Seem to be doing a pretty good job of keeping the US busy tho.

Two people in every state living under the radar can easily construct a truck bomb ala McVeigh style. Construct some type of rudimentary remote control device and at precisely 9:11 pm you drive all 50 trucks into the governers' mansions. It is not hard.

Yeah will you try it for us instead of scratching your ass, eating doughnuts and telling us all what you can do on a shroom board. Get 50 of your mates and try driving 50 empty trucks into governors mansions as an experiment. See what happens to you.


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Don't worry, B. Caapi

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