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InvisibleHuehuecoyotl
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Taking an Unpopular Position
    #3327289 - 11/06/04 12:38 PM (12 years, 1 month ago)

Taking an unpopular position on matters seems to be a reacurring theme in my life. On this board I do it frequently as I do in real life. When people do not agree I am intrigued...when someone gets angry about a statement I have made I am ecstatic because I know I hit on a good point. In my ratings one can find quite a few really angry responses to me...which is cool. I have found that there are many people in life who think that we should stroke each other's egos and agree with each other no matter what the position. I have found that it is these people, who usually try to come off as ultimately wise and peace oriented, who get the angriest. I frequently see the idea that "if you do not agree with me then you are not yet free of your ego, but if you agree then you are enlightened" type responses. I think that when you get a strong negative reaction to a post that you have made an interesting point...not screwed up. Whether you are right or wrong this board is for discussion and debate and good topics often draw strong negative responses.


Edited by Huehuecoyotl (11/06/04 12:53 PM)


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Invisiblegettinjiggywithit
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Re: Taking an Unpopular Position [Re: Huehuecoyotl]
    #3327330 - 11/06/04 12:58 PM (12 years, 1 month ago)

Good post. And good topics can also draw positive responces! :grin: :thumbup:

What does that make the posts that draw No responces?

We got the good posts that hit a disonant cord in people and draw negative responses and debate.

We got the good posts that resonate with people and draw positive responces and sharing add ons

And then posts that go un replied to? What are those all about?


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Invisiblegettinjiggywithit
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Re: Taking an Unpopular Position [Re: gettinjiggywithit]
    #3327337 - 11/06/04 01:01 PM (12 years, 1 month ago)

And of course, most posts get an admixture of both.

I loved what you said about "if you disagree with me you have ego issues and if you agree with me, you are enlightened" That was RICH!


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InvisibleHuehuecoyotl
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Re: Taking an Unpopular Position [Re: gettinjiggywithit]
    #3327343 - 11/06/04 01:03 PM (12 years, 1 month ago)

"Good post. And good topics can also draw positive responces!"

Very true!!!

"What does that make the posts that draw No responces?"

You have rescued me from that fate on this one because indifference sucks. I do seem to be more about dissonance than resonance, though, a limitation (and strength) of which I am well aware.


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"A warrior is a hunter. He calculates everything. That's control. Once his calculations are over, he acts. He lets go. That's abandon. A warrior is not a leaf at the mercy of the wind. No one can push him; no one can make him do things against himself or against his better judgment. A warrior is tuned to survive, and he survives in the best of all possible fashions." ― Carlos Castaneda


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InvisibleSkorpivoMusterion
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Re: Taking an Unpopular Position [Re: gettinjiggywithit]
    #3327347 - 11/06/04 01:04 PM (12 years, 1 month ago)

And then posts that go un replied to? What are those all about?

Those are the posts with actual quality content in them. :wink:



--------------------
Coffee should be black as hell, strong as death, and sweet as love.


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InvisibleHuehuecoyotl
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Re: Taking an Unpopular Position [Re: SkorpivoMusterion]
    #3327353 - 11/06/04 01:07 PM (12 years, 1 month ago)

Content that is not properly presented can be boring...and go unread.


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"A warrior is a hunter. He calculates everything. That's control. Once his calculations are over, he acts. He lets go. That's abandon. A warrior is not a leaf at the mercy of the wind. No one can push him; no one can make him do things against himself or against his better judgment. A warrior is tuned to survive, and he survives in the best of all possible fashions." ― Carlos Castaneda


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OfflinePedM
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Re: Taking an Unpopular Position [Re: Huehuecoyotl]
    #3327388 - 11/06/04 01:24 PM (12 years, 1 month ago)

>> I frequently see the idea that "if you do not agree with me then you are not yet free of your ego, but if you agree then you are enlightened" type responses.

We all have insecurities, and we all have different means of coping with them. For some, it is to pedestalize themselves over others, to maintain an aloofness with a delusively enlightened self-concept. When we are up on a pedestal, we feel that we are safe, that no one has the power to exploit our insecurities. We believe that no one can hurt us.

It's difficult not to have compassion for such people, though, especially when it eventually dawns on them that they have been engaging in such embarassingly childish behaviour. When we pedestalize ourselves, it leaves us isolated and lonely. We have trouble connecting with other people, even those we trust as our friends. And since deep down inside we know that we are not as superior to others as we might rather believe ourselves to be, the bruises we take from whatever hurtful remarks come our way damage us much deeper than they would otherwise. When we see such people climbing up on to their pedestal, it's not difficult to understand that the degree of their aloofness is directly proportionate to their degree of self-hatred. Can you imagine what it would be like to have to endure such pervasive, multi-faceted, yet so subtly self-inflicted suffering?

Truly, Huehuecoyotl, the people you're describing are in a great deal of pain. Thank you for your post.


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Invisiblegettinjiggywithit
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Re: Taking an Unpopular Position [Re: Huehuecoyotl]
    #3327397 - 11/06/04 01:28 PM (12 years, 1 month ago)

This is really a great topic to address.

People who do not like dissonant energy and standing out tend to be more agreeable to be in resonance with others.

People who do not like to be in resonance with others because they will go unoticed or unheard, make up reasons to be disagreeable.

Take a song. The disonant notes stand out and are noticed. The resonant notes blend in with the music.

Of course, being disonant allows for one to stand out from the crowed and get noticed. (This reminds me of swamis better to be detested post)

The win win is to be in resonance and be able to get noticed. Think of a song, (jazz or classical)where an instrument is played that is keeping in resonant harmony with the other instruments but does stand out as well and gets the positive attention of the ear.

The wind instruments tend to do that, like the flute, trumpet and saxaphone.

What does this mean?

Who can pull a zen analogy out of their ass for being like the wind instrument so one can be in harmonic resonance and heard and noticed?

I know I know , people will think, wanting to be heard and noticed is an aspect of the ego.

Whatever, beautiful music has a lot of components to it and music would be boring if it was just one rythmic tapping on a drum. Sure, we can all beat as one and go boom, boom, boom, OR we can't beat as one symphony and go da da da ra ta ta ta wa wa wa be di da di da doo and still be one song.

Maybe its a matter of figuring out how to make an instrument of ourselves and then tuning in to the grand conductor of the universal symphony.

I hear ya Hue, I often go clash bang kazary myself. But hey, it keeps the music funny too even if annoying at the same time.

This reminds me of being a kid and crafting instruments with the neighbor kids and forming our own marching or rock bands. We sounded like shit, but we had fun making music together anyway.


--------------------
Ahuwale ka nane huna.


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InvisibleHuehuecoyotl
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Re: Taking an Unpopular Position [Re: gettinjiggywithit]
    #3327435 - 11/06/04 01:41 PM (12 years, 1 month ago)

"The win win is to be in resonance and be able to get noticed."

Ah,not always, you are not aware of more modern musical styles such as represented by composers like Bartok? The guitarist Michael Hedges, http://www.windham.com/albums/product.jsp?id=01934110322, used dissonance to great effect. These musicians use dissonant chords and notes in a piece tastefully. Dissonance and resonance both have their beauty. Who does not enjoy the dissonance of a minor chord fully as much as the resonance of a major chord. Indian music abounds with wonderful dissonances. They merely part of the tapestry that is music.


Edited by Huehuecoyotl (11/06/04 10:07 PM)


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OfflineIrishGuy
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Re: Taking an Unpopular Position [Re: gettinjiggywithit]
    #3327448 - 11/06/04 01:45 PM (12 years, 1 month ago)

I think it is too easy to say that an agreeable post is always good or that a dissenting post must always be bad or vice versa.  Each post must be read as its own entity, but i must say it is often easier to agree with someone than disagree.  I have noticed this through out my life, that conflict is most often avioded because of the simple fact that it is harder to deal with.  If everyone agreed with one another, where the hell would we be?  IF we all disagreed, what would get done?  A balance of the two forces must always be present in the universe.  This nation was founded on dissenting opinions.  However, nothing would have got built if we didn't agree on something.
As for Hue though, I admire your dissentingness ( if that is even a word).  There are a lot of agreeable things on most threads, you bring balance by adding the dissent.  I remember a post you wrote on the " Weed in the Bible" thread.  You totally disagreed with everybody on it, but it brought a new light to the table.  Thank you for keeping the balance in the Universe. :gd_icon:


Edited by IrishGuy (11/06/04 01:47 PM)


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Invisiblegettinjiggywithit
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Re: Taking an Unpopular Position [Re: Huehuecoyotl]
    #3327451 - 11/06/04 01:46 PM (12 years, 1 month ago)

Coooooooooool!

So the only problem is that most people havn't devloped and ear for appreciating the dissonance of a minor chord.

Interesting. I want to check out that link when I get back from Bush Gardens. Cherio...... a ra da ta ta tat bi da diddy doo bop bop bop, di da clunk ba ba ahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh


--------------------
Ahuwale ka nane huna.


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InvisibleHuehuecoyotl
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Re: Taking an Unpopular Position [Re: gettinjiggywithit]
    #3327469 - 11/06/04 01:52 PM (12 years, 1 month ago)

Michael Hedge's music is a very focused meditative style. Good flamenco is nearly fully constructed of dissonances with resonances standing out. Anyway, both styles of thought are valid...it's all good...hold on there...I just caught myself...no it's not.


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"A warrior is a hunter. He calculates everything. That's control. Once his calculations are over, he acts. He lets go. That's abandon. A warrior is not a leaf at the mercy of the wind. No one can push him; no one can make him do things against himself or against his better judgment. A warrior is tuned to survive, and he survives in the best of all possible fashions." ― Carlos Castaneda


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Invisiblegettinjiggywithit
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Re: Taking an Unpopular Position [Re: Huehuecoyotl]
    #3327478 - 11/06/04 01:53 PM (12 years, 1 month ago)

LOL

I lovvvvvvvvvvvve flaminco music. I knew a guy in kauai who was great and played his guitar out by the pool everyday. Charo owns a restaurant there and I heard her play once too.


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Ahuwale ka nane huna.


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InvisibleTeragon
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Re: Taking an Unpopular Position [Re: Huehuecoyotl]
    #3327823 - 11/06/04 04:04 PM (12 years, 1 month ago)

Great post Huehuecoyotl.

We need dissonance in our life. Everything would be stagnant if there was complete agreement among everyone.

I personally think that it is necessary for mental evolution.

These boards would be really lame if everyone agreed and no one fought. OTD (which most people cringe at) is filled with it...and I find myself there a lot recently...don't know why.

S&P needs people to disagree...otherwise it would suck. 'Nuff said. :grin:


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InvisibleSwami
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Re: Taking an Unpopular Position [Re: Teragon]
    #3327861 - 11/06/04 04:16 PM (12 years, 1 month ago)

We need dissonance in our life.

I vehemently disagree!  :mad:


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The proof is in the pudding.


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InvisibleHuehuecoyotl
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Re: Taking an Unpopular Position [Re: Swami]
    #3328044 - 11/06/04 05:39 PM (12 years, 1 month ago)

"I vehemently disagree!"

If you would free your ego true understanding would come and enlightenment will follow. Then you would know the wisdom of my word. Peace.


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Invisiblegettinjiggywithit
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Re: Taking an Unpopular Position [Re: Huehuecoyotl]
    #3328465 - 11/06/04 08:32 PM (12 years, 1 month ago)

I listened to some of that music and I want to thank you for giving me the opportunity to hear the analogy I was using so I could experience it.

The artist makes it work with complimenting contrast-he's good!

A little to "dark moody" for my taste, but I loved being able to hear the example of how "we sound" to others when playing our own dissonant chords.

Very neat!


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Ahuwale ka nane huna.


Edited by gettinjiggywithit (11/06/04 11:50 PM)


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InvisibleHuehuecoyotl
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Re: Taking an Unpopular Position [Re: gettinjiggywithit]
    #3328649 - 11/06/04 10:04 PM (12 years, 1 month ago)

You talking about Mike Hedges?


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"A warrior is a hunter. He calculates everything. That's control. Once his calculations are over, he acts. He lets go. That's abandon. A warrior is not a leaf at the mercy of the wind. No one can push him; no one can make him do things against himself or against his better judgment. A warrior is tuned to survive, and he survives in the best of all possible fashions." ― Carlos Castaneda


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InvisibleTeragon
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Re: Taking an Unpopular Position [Re: Swami]
    #3328672 - 11/06/04 10:12 PM (12 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

Swami said:
We need dissonance in our life.

I vehemently disagree!  :mad:




Good. :grin: As has been discussed, you are very entitled to that. Care to elaborate? I like hearing the other side. :smirk:


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need that cash to feed them jones.


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InvisibleHuehuecoyotl
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Re: Taking an Unpopular Position [Re: Teragon]
    #3328713 - 11/06/04 10:27 PM (12 years, 1 month ago)

He was being sarcastic I think.


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"A warrior is a hunter. He calculates everything. That's control. Once his calculations are over, he acts. He lets go. That's abandon. A warrior is not a leaf at the mercy of the wind. No one can push him; no one can make him do things against himself or against his better judgment. A warrior is tuned to survive, and he survives in the best of all possible fashions." ― Carlos Castaneda


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