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InvisibleSwami
Eggshell Walker

Registered: 01/19/00
Posts: 15,413
Loc: In the hen house
Majority of Bush Supporters are Ignorant
    #3269935 - 10/24/04 02:23 AM (12 years, 1 month ago)

No, this is not an insult but the results of a recent poll. It was on CNN and I did NOT get who conducted it. Sorry.

Seems that most Bush supporters (57%!) don't EVEN have the facts straight. They still believe that Saddam was intricately involved in the 9/11 attacks and the world overwhelmingly favors Bush, plus a series of other misconceptions.

Support Bush if you must, but do it based on Fax, not Fox.


--------------------



The proof is in the pudding.


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InvisibleAnnapurna1
liberal pussy
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Re: Majority of Bush Supporters are Ignorant [Re: Swami]
    #3270070 - 10/24/04 03:03 AM (12 years, 1 month ago)

i dont think their so ignorant as they are just plain mean...bushs' lies are simply too obvious for anyone to actually believe it..so the only logical explanation is that they have some ulterior motive for pretending to do so...


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"anchor blocks counteract the process of pontiprobation..while omalean globes regulize the pressure"...


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OfflineDivided_Sky
Ten ThousandThings

Registered: 11/02/03
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Re: Majority of Bush Supporters are Ignorant [Re: Annapurna1]
    #3270229 - 10/24/04 03:45 AM (12 years, 1 month ago)

So far they haven't done a survey on Kerry supporters/anti-Bush people (Which, of course will never be done). I think it would show an even higher level of ignorance regarding the relationship between oil and war, capitalism, autocracies, global politics, and terrorism.


--------------------
1. "After an hour I wasn't feeling anything so I decided to take another..."
2. "We were feeling pretty good so we decided to smoke a few bowls..."
3. "I had to be real quiet because my parents were asleep upstairs..."


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OfflineEchoVortex
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Re: Majority of Bush Supporters are Ignorant [Re: Swami]
    #3270292 - 10/24/04 04:00 AM (12 years, 1 month ago)

Here is the full story and link:

http://www.pipa.org/OnlineReports/Pres_Election_04/html/new_10_21_04.html#1

Even after the final report of Charles Duelfer to Congress saying that Iraq did not have a significant WMD program, 72% of Bush supporters continue to believe that Iraq had actual WMD (47%) or a major program for developing them (25%). Fifty-six percent assume that most experts believe Iraq had actual WMD and 57% also assume, incorrectly, that Duelfer concluded Iraq had at least a major WMD program. Kerry supporters hold opposite beliefs on all these points.

Similarly, 75% of Bush supporters continue to believe that Iraq was providing substantial support to al Qaeda, and 63% believe that clear evidence of this support has been found. Sixty percent of Bush supporters assume that this is also the conclusion of most experts, and 55% assume, incorrectly, that this was the conclusion of the 9/11 Commission. Here again, large majorities of Kerry supporters have exactly opposite perceptions.

These are some of the findings of a new study of the differing perceptions of Bush and Kerry supporters, conducted by the Program on International Policy Attitudes and Knowledge Networks, based on polls conducted in September and October.

Steven Kull, director of PIPA, comments, ?One of the reasons that Bush supporters have these beliefs is that they perceive the Bush administration confirming them. Interestingly, this is one point on which Bush and Kerry supporters agree.? Eighty-two percent of Bush supporters perceive the Bush administration as saying that Iraq had WMD (63%) or that Iraq had a major WMD program (19%). Likewise, 75% say that the Bush administration is saying Iraq was providing substantial support to al Qaeda. Equally large majorities of Kerry supporters hear the Bush administration expressing these views?73% say the Bush administration is saying Iraq had WMD (11% a major program) and 74% that Iraq was substantially supporting al Qaeda.

Steven Kull adds, ?Another reason that Bush supporters may hold to these beliefs is that they have not accepted the idea that it does not matter whether Iraq had WMD or supported al Qaeda. Here too they are in agreement with Kerry supporters.? Asked whether the US should have gone to war with Iraq if US intelligence had concluded that Iraq was not making WMD or providing support to al Qaeda, 58% of Bush supporters said the US should not have, and 61% assume that in this case the President would not have. Kull continues, ?To support the president and to accept that he took the US to war based on mistaken assumptions likely creates substantial cognitive dissonance, and leads Bush supporters to suppress awareness of unsettling information about prewar Iraq.? This tendency of Bush supporters to ignore dissonant information extends to other realms as well. Despite an abundance of evidence?including polls conducted by Gallup International in 38 countries, and more recently by a consortium of leading newspapers in 10 major countries--only 31% of Bush supporters recognize that the majority of people in the world oppose the US having gone to war with Iraq. Forty-two percent assume that views are evenly divided, and 26% assume that the majority approves. Among Kerry supporters, 74% assume that the majority of the world is opposed . . .
(You Can Read More At the Site)

Not only are Bush supporters less well-informed about the FACTS, they are less well-informed than Kerry supporters about both their OWN and the opposing candidate's stated policies and positions. See the report here:

http://www.pipa.org/OnlineReports/Pres_Election_04/html/new_9_29_04.html

The whole thing sort of reminds me of this guy I knew way back in high school. He was from rural Ohio and obviously raised in a very conservative household. One day he said something that bowled me over so much that I remember it to this day:

"Those fucking liberals! They actually want to stop helping poor people with welfare!"

All he knew was that he was a Republican and that liberals sucked (a belief no doubt pounded into him since birth) and was oblivious to the fact that many of his own personal values were totally at odds with that belief.


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InvisibleSwami
Eggshell Walker

Registered: 01/19/00
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Re: Majority of Bush Supporters are Ignorant [Re: EchoVortex]
    #3270408 - 10/24/04 04:41 AM (12 years, 1 month ago)

Thanks for the article. I suppose the repercussions of this will fly over the heads of many.


--------------------



The proof is in the pudding.


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OfflineEchoVortex
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Re: Majority of Bush Supporters are Ignorant [Re: Swami]
    #3270426 - 10/24/04 04:47 AM (12 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

Swami said:
Thanks for the article. I suppose the repercussions of this will fly over the heads of many.




I don't think it will even ruffle their hairdos.


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Offlinekadakuda
The Great"Green".......East
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Re: Majority of Bush Supporters are Ignorant [Re: Swami]
    #3270604 - 10/24/04 06:17 AM (12 years, 1 month ago)

to be honest i think that a good 99%+ of people are truely ignorant, left and right lots try and see teh truth and do much research. but with so many lies, coverups and shit how can anyone know the facts? fbi dude comes out and tells "the truth" about iraqi intelegence...how do we know hes not lieing? we say it on teh news, in journals newspapers. doesnt make it true, jsut accepted. im pretty far on the left but i think its far more 2 sided than many of us are willing to admit.

there is so much bias in this planet i think it would be extremely difficult to have anyone tell what they believe to be 100% truth without any tainting, slanting, implying and whatnot. sad truth but its certainly the way its seems.


--------------------
The seeds you won't sow are the plants you dont grow.


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InvisibleAnnapurna1
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Re: Majority of Bush Supporters are Ignorant [Re: Divided_Sky]
    #3270960 - 10/24/04 11:39 AM (12 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

Divided_Sky said:
So far they haven't done a survey on Kerry supporters/anti-Bush people (Which, of course will never be done). I think it would show an even higher level of ignorance regarding the relationship between oil and war, capitalism, autocracies, global politics, and terrorism.




wrong-o bucko...as the earlier poster noted..they have done such a survey...ill repost the link for your convenience...the results of the survey clearly show kerry voters to be much more in tune with the facts..at least wrt global politcs..war.. and terrorism...

however..that doesnt mean that that the bushistas are "ignorant".. but simply that the facts dont hold up to their agenda...


--------------------


"anchor blocks counteract the process of pontiprobation..while omalean globes regulize the pressure"...


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Invisiblez@z.com
Libertarian
Registered: 10/13/02
Posts: 2,876
Loc: ATL
Re: Majority of Bush Supporters are Ignorant [Re: Annapurna1]
    #3270991 - 10/24/04 12:00 PM (12 years, 1 month ago)

Both sides have a lot of ignorance. I'm sure if we switched up the questions some we could get the opposite results.


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"Of all tyrannies, a tyranny exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It may be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end, for they do so with the approval of their own conscience." - C.S. Lewis

"I would rather be exposed to the inconveniencies attending too much liberty than to those attending too small a degree of it." - Thomas Jefferson


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Offlinedaimyo
Monticello

Registered: 05/13/04
Posts: 7,751
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Re: Majority of Bush Supporters are Ignorant [Re: Annapurna1]
    #3271005 - 10/24/04 12:08 PM (12 years, 1 month ago)

I agree with Annapurna.  The facts don't mean much anymore(to either side).  I beilieve that most partially educated people accept anything that comes out of their mouths as a lie, and therefore don't pay attention.  The people that do believe what they're told are helpless.  I also believe that most people are aligning themselves with an image in this election.  Rich people, and rednecks like Bush because that's what they've learned from television.  Peace lovers, "minorities", and people that don't know anything about the issues support Kerry, because that's what they've picked up from the picture box.
When I look at the issues I see no discernable difference in their stances(except stem cell research).  They both pretend to be good men of faith, but go against their religious beliefs whenver the polls require it.  They're both rich punks that raised slut daughters.  Voting for either one is a sin in my eyes.  There is no way I can go into a voting booth and choose either Bush or Kerry.  I would not be able to face myself knowing that I didn't vote for someone who stands for the same things as ME(not my favorite pundit). 
And for the people who say they'd vote for a third party candidate if the parties were bigger FFFUUUUUCCCKKKK YOOOUUUU!!!!!!  Go ahead and keep wasting your vote on your own imprisonment.  When Kerry gets elected and our fine country gets attacked again, we will be in the same spot we are now, if not worse.

OK, I'm done venting :wink:  Go Isolationism!!


--------------------
"I have sworn upon the altar of God eternal hostility against every form of tyranny over the mind of man."


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OfflineDivided_Sky
Ten ThousandThings

Registered: 11/02/03
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Re: Majority of Bush Supporters are Ignorant [Re: Annapurna1]
    #3271378 - 10/24/04 02:41 PM (12 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

Annapurna1 said:


wrong-o bucko...as the earlier poster noted..they have done such a survey...ill repost the link for your convenience...the results of the survey clearly show kerry voters to be much more in tune with the facts..at least wrt global politcs..war.. and terrorism...





To gauge Kerry supporters these are the proper questions.

Is there corruption at the UN?
Do European allies not support us because they make money off Saddam or love peace?
Would sanctions have worked against Iraq?
Did the world intelligence community believe Saddam Hussein had WMDs?
Will Europe send troops to Iraq if John Kerry is elected?
Does Europe care about what is in the best interest of America?
Did Europeans like American foreign policy and capitalism before Bush was elected?
Is the ICJ a fair organization?
Is the UN effective at stopping violence?
Who do you prefer Saddam Hussein or George W. Bush?
Was the war in Iraq over oil?
Was the war in Afghanistan over oil?
Was Halliburton the main defense contractor during the Clinton Administration?
Did Bush know about 911 in advance?
Was Bush behind 911?
Does Israel control the US government?
Is Osama Bin Laden already in custody?
Are Bush and Osama Bin Laden freinds?
Has there been any evidence of black voters being disenfranchised in the 2000 election?
Did the the media recounts determine Bush or Gore to be the winner of Florida in 2000?

That poll only asked questions that might reflect poorly for right wingers. And also only 1/4 of all polling respondents were from the entire western United States. Of course they got dumb people taking a survey from the east.


--------------------
1. "After an hour I wasn't feeling anything so I decided to take another..."
2. "We were feeling pretty good so we decided to smoke a few bowls..."
3. "I had to be real quiet because my parents were asleep upstairs..."


Edited by Divided_Sky (10/24/04 03:37 PM)


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InvisibleKingOftheThing
the cool fool
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Re: Majority of Bush Supporters are Ignorant [Re: Swami]
    #3271403 - 10/24/04 02:50 PM (12 years, 1 month ago)

you can just read this board and see how ignorant bush supporters are


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OfflineThe_Red_Crayon
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Re: Majority of Bush Supporters are Ignorant [Re: Swami]
    #3271508 - 10/24/04 03:22 PM (12 years, 1 month ago)

Haha kerry will do just the exact same shit bush will do. There isnt any change in the system. It will be the same crap over again. If you wanna fix the system vote in a third party.


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InvisibleEonTan
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Re: Majority of Bush Supporters are Ignorant [Re: Divided_Sky]
    #3272036 - 10/24/04 05:46 PM (12 years, 1 month ago)

I sure would like to see the answers are resident left would post to those questions.


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InvisibleGijith
Daisy Chain Eater

Registered: 12/04/03
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Re: Majority of Bush Supporters are Ignorant [Re: Divided_Sky]
    #3272166 - 10/24/04 06:29 PM (12 years, 1 month ago)

Divided Sky,

Those are good questions. I'm not voting for Kerry, but I am still pretty liberal, so I'll take a shot at answering them.

-Is there corruption at the UN?
>>>God yes, but I still support its existence.
-Do European allies not support us because they make money off Saddam or love peace?
>>>Both, along with a general desire to compete against America.
-Would sanctions have worked against Iraq?
>>>They would have worked against Iraq, not Saddam. So far, nothing that's been done has benefitted the people of Iraq.
-Did the world intelligence community believe Saddam Hussein had WMDs?
>>>Yes.
-Will Europe send troops to Iraq if John Kerry is elected?
>>>I think there's a better chance of it. Though I don't think it's the right thing to do.
-Does Europe care about what is in the best interest of America?
>>>No.
-Did Europeans like American foreign policy and capitalism before Bush was elected?
>>>No, they disliked it before, they hate it now.
-Is the ICJ a fair organization?
>>> I haven't read enough to answer a question that broad. But I have to say, I agree with every ruling I've read about it making... Still, I'm sure there are problems. Reform reform reform.
-Is the UN effective at stopping violence?
>>>It has been in the past. It still has the potential to be. It needs some work.
-Who do you prefer Saddam Hussein or George W. Bush?
>>>If you're asking who I'd prefer to lead America, I'd say Bush. If you're asking who I'd prefer to lead Iraq, I'd say Hussein. Though I think they'd both do shit jobs in either country.
-Was the war in Iraq over oil?
>>>To a very small degree. Not for Bush. But I think for some advisors... To answer your question, we would have invaded, oil or no oil.
-Was the war in Afghanistan over oil?
>>>No.
-Was Halliburton the main defense contractor during the Clinton Administration?
>>>I believe so.
Did Bush know about 911 in advance?
>>>I don't think so.
-Was Bush behind 911?
>>>I think that's outside the realm of possibility.
Does Israel control the US government?
>>>Nobody's giving orders. But I do think there's influence. There's certainly a stronger Isreali voice in Washington than Palestinian. There's a lot of sensitivity toward Isreali viewpoints.
-Is Osama Bin Laden already in custody?
>>>I don't think so.
-Are Bush and Osama Bin Laden freinds?
>>>I'd say they're arch rivals.
-Has there been any evidence of black voters being disenfranchised in the 2000 election?
>>>That I don't know. I'm not all that interested.
-Did the the media recounts determine Bush or Gore to be the winner of Florida in 2000?
>>>Bush 100%.


Again, I'm not voting for Kerry. But the idea has crossed my mind and I do think he's the lesser of two evils.

I have to say, even if I were a Kerry supporter, I don't think these questions would bother me. But that's assuming my answers are right.

:cheers:


--------------------
what's with neocons and the word 'ilk'?


Edited by Gijith (10/24/04 11:16 PM)


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Offlinezappaisgod
horrid asshole

Registered: 02/11/04
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Re: Majority of Bush Supporters are Ignorant [Re: The_Red_Crayon]
    #3272188 - 10/24/04 06:39 PM (12 years, 1 month ago)

Did anybody actually read the poll questions? Almost all of them were of the "what is your perception of the administration's position" nature. Further, the number of the last question is 47. Left out were the answers to Qs 3-6,7-12,12b,18-19,22-23,27-32,35,39-40,42a-44. That is 27 questions left unreported entirely. They don't even say what the questions were. Then there are the questions that don't even include the correct answer in the multiple choice list, ie #38 about the Duelfer report.

Swami if you define stupid as someone who supports Bush and this war then you yourself have vacated any pretext of intellectual honesty. I personally think that anyone who thinks the number 1 liberal in the senate, a quisling, a traitor and a war criminal, a self professed worshiper of the UN, who has admitted that he has the interests of other nations ahead of our own, and who thinks he can cure disease and make the paralyzed walk again (PRAISE JESUS) would make a good advocate for US interests in the world stage is truly a deluded fool who deserves the total ass fucking that he will surely get should this benighted and befuddled scumcunt be elected.


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InvisibleSwami
Eggshell Walker

Registered: 01/19/00
Posts: 15,413
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Re: Majority of Bush Supporters are Ignorant [Re: zappaisgod]
    #3272311 - 10/24/04 07:12 PM (12 years, 1 month ago)

Swami if you define stupid as someone who supports Bush and this war then you yourself have vacated any pretext of intellectual honesty.

Nice strawman. The word "stupid" never appeared in any post by me in this thread now did it? That certainly is not honest. Stupidity and ignorance are NOT interchangeable. I passed along information from a poll. Informed Bush supporters should be equally appalled at the findings.


--------------------



The proof is in the pudding.


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Offlinezappaisgod
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Re: Majority of Bush Supporters are Ignorant [Re: Swami]
    #3272355 - 10/24/04 07:26 PM (12 years, 1 month ago)

Swami said "I suppose the repercussions of this will fly over the heads of many." Sounds like stupid and not ignorant to me. You could argue that you didn't SAY that the "many" were Bush supporters but that would be disingenuous.

Did you read the poll questions and why were 27 out of 47 left out? I know that that flew over the heads of many because I'm the only one who mentioned it. Whether it's because I'm smarter or just more doubtful when I hear a generality like "Bush supporters are more ignorant", knowing what I know about Kerry supporters, is beside the point.


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InvisibleSwami
Eggshell Walker

Registered: 01/19/00
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Loc: In the hen house
Re: Majority of Bush Supporters are Ignorant [Re: zappaisgod]
    #3272404 - 10/24/04 07:39 PM (12 years, 1 month ago)

Once again you hallucinate as I made no comparison to Kerry supporters.


--------------------



The proof is in the pudding.


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Offlinezappaisgod
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Re: Majority of Bush Supporters are Ignorant [Re: Swami]
    #3272423 - 10/24/04 07:44 PM (12 years, 1 month ago)

The entire poll was purported to be a comparison between the supporters of the two candidates


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