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OfflineFrankieN
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Registered: 12/27/03
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Kerry and Vietnam
    #3267422 - 10/23/04 12:35 PM (12 years, 4 months ago)

A lot of people seem very bothered by the fact that Kerry spoke out against the Vietnam war, I do not understand how this can be. From what I know the Vietnam war sounded like a really messed up war, a lot of terrible stuff took place on both sides that should never happen even in war, things that are and were illegal. And here a man does his duty to his country and comes back and reports that illegal things are happening and are being allowed to happen, I think this shows the mans courage and his belief in his country, a belief that by going through the system things can be changed for the better. All people should know the horrors of war, if they did then maybe we would work harder for peace. I think people call Kerry a coward and a traitor because they do not want to face head on the horror and pain, the lives taken by war, they want to be proud of their country and their people instead and this sort of mentality is what allows wars to take place. Even if war is absolutely necessary, nobody should be proud of that, it should not be clouded by patriotism and ideas such as good prevailing over evil, it should only be seen as what it is, loss of life, horrible, painful, evil. So why is Kerry looked down upon for speaking out against war? (Before you call me a coward and a traitor as well I would just like to say that I am currently serving in the USMC)


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OfflineFrankieN
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Registered: 12/27/03
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Re: Kerry and Vietnam [Re: FrankieN]
    #3274599 - 10/25/04 10:24 AM (12 years, 3 months ago)

Anybody? This is one of the major reasons people look down on Kerry, atleast out of people I've talked to, many of wich are in the military, most of wich cannot backup their veiws without simply resorting to shallow name calling, there must be some valid reason.


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OfflineJesusChrist
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Registered: 02/19/04
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Re: Kerry and Vietnam [Re: FrankieN]
    #3274618 - 10/25/04 10:33 AM (12 years, 3 months ago)

Protesting the war is one thing. Spreading lies about our fighting men and going to Paris to secretly meet with the Vietnamese is quite another. The testimony that he gave to the Senate in 1971 was based on the trumped up allegations of The Winter Soldier investigation, which was puppet propagand from a kangaroo court.

Plenty of people protested the war, but who in their right mind would have gone to Paris?


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InvisibleJonnyOnTheSpot
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Re: Kerry and Vietnam [Re: JesusChrist]
    #3274629 - 10/25/04 10:37 AM (12 years, 3 months ago)

OMG he went to Paris! Case closed! What a traitor!


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OfflineFrankieN
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Registered: 12/27/03
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Re: Kerry and Vietnam [Re: JesusChrist]
    #3274630 - 10/25/04 10:38 AM (12 years, 3 months ago)

What is wrong with Paris? Are you joking? I've heard alot of conspiracy theories, many of wich are very beleivable, but to say war crimes did not take place on a massive scale, or atleast a regular basis, in the vietnam war is crazy. Have you ever talked to a Vietnam Vet?


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InvisibleLoki
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Re: Kerry and Vietnam [Re: FrankieN]
    #3274635 - 10/25/04 10:42 AM (12 years, 3 months ago)

He is saying paris was a mistake due to who he spoke with there.

Some people seem to think its wrong to try to talk to your enemy :undecided:
Odd that, as I'm unsure how you can resolve problems with out doing that.


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OfflineAaronEvil
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Re: Kerry and Vietnam [Re: FrankieN]
    #3275226 - 10/25/04 02:35 PM (12 years, 3 months ago)

I have no problem with Kerry speaking out against a war that he does not believe in. As far as the illegal allegations go, it was war; sometimes in war you have to do unethical things to achieve victory. War isnt supposed to be fair. If it was, we would have lost the revolutionary war. So dont act like illegal actions in war should not occur. My other problem with Kerry and Vietnam is that up until the debates he really didnt talk much on his views other than Vietnam and Iraq. One, Vietnam doesnt matter anymore and him being in Vietnam doesnt matter. Two, we know he opposes Bush on that issue so why didnt he talk about anything else on such a large scale? After the debates I learned how he stands on most issues and I disagree with them. Anyway, my point is, Kerry had every right to speak out against Vietnam, he just didnt use his brain when doing so.


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Offlineekomstop
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Re: Kerry and Vietnam [Re: FrankieN]
    #3275287 - 10/25/04 02:55 PM (12 years, 3 months ago)

It's too bad nobody ever seems to emphasize on the fact that the U.S. lied about the Vietmanese attacking their ships and thereby instigating the war in the first place..


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Anonymous

Re: Kerry and Vietnam [Re: JonnyOnTheSpot]
    #3275640 - 10/25/04 04:31 PM (12 years, 3 months ago)

OMG he went to Paris! Case closed! What a traitor!

he admitted going to paris and meeting with vietnamese communist officials (though he lied and claimed representatives from both sides were present when they were not) while he was still in the military and the war was still on. he was not authorized to meet with them or give them any information about american interests and intentions. the meeting was illegal and may have very likely cost the united states some of its bargaining position with the communists. he had a secret unauthorized meeting with the enemy in a time of war. it was an act of treason.


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Anonymous

Re: Kerry and Vietnam [Re: FrankieN]
    #3275654 - 10/25/04 04:35 PM (12 years, 3 months ago)

"I took part in shootings in free-fire zones. I conducted harassment and interdiction fire. I used 50-caliber machine guns which we were granted and ordered to use, which were our only weapon against people. I took part in search-and-destroy missions, in the burning of villages."

- john kerry


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InvisibleGabbaDj
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Re: Kerry and Vietnam [Re: FrankieN]
    #3275681 - 10/25/04 04:42 PM (12 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

FrankieN said:
What is wrong with Paris? Are you joking? I've heard alot of conspiracy theories, many of wich are very beleivable, but to say war crimes did not take place on a massive scale, or atleast a regular basis, in the vietnam war is crazy. Have you ever talked to a Vietnam Vet?




Soooo true.. Kerry went and killed for his country. Aside from all the other storys that go along with this fact, it is what it is.

When it all was over he fought against the great was machine for sending more than 58,000 to their deaths and cripled more than 90,000 Americans. Another 20,000 + have commited suicide as a result of their service in Vietnam.


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Anonymous

Re: Kerry and Vietnam [Re: GabbaDj]
    #3275693 - 10/25/04 04:46 PM (12 years, 3 months ago)

Another 20,000 + have commited suicide as a result of their service in Vietnam.

where did you read that?


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InvisibleJonnyOnTheSpot
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Re: Kerry and Vietnam [Re: GabbaDj]
    #3275701 - 10/25/04 04:47 PM (12 years, 3 months ago)

20,000? whoa...

who knows tho, i might kill myself too if i was ordered to murder innocent people and didn't have the balls to disobey that order.


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InvisibleGabbaDj
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Re: Kerry and Vietnam [Re: ]
    #3275740 - 10/25/04 04:58 PM (12 years, 3 months ago)

It was on MTV.. They were interviewing soldiers in Iraq and many were afraid to talk but one guy put his head down and said "I have killed a few poor people but I havnt even seen any terrorists".

Killing a person is something that stays with you for life and many just cant live with the fact that they committed murder.


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Anonymous

Re: Kerry and Vietnam [Re: GabbaDj]
    #3275753 - 10/25/04 05:04 PM (12 years, 3 months ago)

20,000 just sounds a little high.


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InvisibleGabbaDj
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Re: Kerry and Vietnam [Re: ]
    #3275783 - 10/25/04 05:10 PM (12 years, 3 months ago)

Im sure a large part of that number ties in with the permanently crippled.

If you lost your legs, eyes, arms or was horribly scarred for life, you might just think about killing yourself too...


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GabbaDj

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InvisibleJonnyOnTheSpot
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Re: Kerry and Vietnam [Re: GabbaDj]
    #3275789 - 10/25/04 05:11 PM (12 years, 3 months ago)

oh yeah. good point.


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