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Invisibleretread
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Registered: 07/14/04
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Kerry's Vietnam Flip-Flop
    #3044022 - 08/24/04 01:48 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

John Kerry joined the military and requested to be sent to Vietnam. He goes over in a capacity that places him in the line of danger, though not as dangerous as other military occupations. He writes himself up for numerous medals under, well, lets just say "questionable" circumstances. He comes back, realizes that the war isn't popular with the masses, so he starts to protest it. Do you think that he went to Vietnam with the sole purpose of coming home a "War hero" to advance his political career?


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Invisiblesilversoul7
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Re: Kerry's Vietnam Flip-Flop [Re: retread]
    #3044034 - 08/24/04 01:51 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

Maybe he did it to serve his country.


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"It is dangerous to be right when the government is wrong."--Voltaire


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Invisibleretread
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Re: Kerry's Vietnam Flip-Flop [Re: silversoul7]
    #3044047 - 08/24/04 01:54 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

I think that we'd have lost the war just fine without Kerry showboating around for a WHOLE FOUR MONTHS!

do you really honestly think he did it to "serve his country", or was it more like "Hey, I can serve my country AND THAT will appeal to the voters, maybe I can even stretch the truth a wee little bit and get some medals to wear on my chest when I get back".


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Invisiblesilversoul7
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Re: Kerry's Vietnam Flip-Flop [Re: retread]
    #3044059 - 08/24/04 01:56 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

Maybe. I can't really make that call, and neither can you.


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OfflineTao
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Re: Kerry's Vietnam Flip-Flop [Re: retread]
    #3044068 - 08/24/04 01:58 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

He comes back, realizes that the war isn't popular with the masses, so he starts to protest it.




Or maybe, just maybe, he went over and realized it was a really fucked up place, and came back and protested sending young men to die over there? a war that most now accept to have been a fucked up bad decision.


i was going to go on but this is such an inane accusation--that he would risk his life that much just because it might potentially help his future political caree--is retarded and a waste of time.


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Re: Kerry's Vietnam Flip-Flop [Re: silversoul7]
    #3044135 - 08/24/04 02:14 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

That is why I didn't say "Give me the universal, objective, singular correct answer to this, to be given after an indepth brain scan, time travel, and numerous interviews with Kerry at each stage in his life", I said "give me your thoughts on it". Semantics are such a wonderful thing.

TTC - Do you think that if Kerry came back to open arms, a heros welcome, he would have started his lies about the war? Also, how would he have realized it was a fucked up place? He admitted, through his staff, that he lied about what he saw. He was caught in other lies. If he was going to sit somewhere and not see atrocities, he could have just as easily gone to Thailand and made things up. He wasn't just protesting sending men, he was saying that the majority o fpeople in-country were engaged in war crimes. As for "risking his life", I think he was planning to get over there and never do a damn thing, but then he realized (after his horrific injuries) that war wasn't that fun, so he popped back stateside. Four freaking months, thats hardly a real tour of duty.


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Invisibleluvdemshrooms
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Re: Kerry's Vietnam Flip-Flop [Re: silversoul7]
    #3044669 - 08/24/04 04:50 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

silversoul7 said:
Maybe he did it to serve his country.


:rotfl:


--------------------
You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity. What one person receives without working for another person must work for without receiving. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for that my dear friend is the beginning of the end of any nation. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it. ~ Adrian Rogers


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Invisiblesilversoul7
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Re: Kerry's Vietnam Flip-Flop [Re: luvdemshrooms]
    #3044695 - 08/24/04 04:56 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

Hey, it's possible.


--------------------


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Invisibleluvdemshrooms
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Re: Kerry's Vietnam Flip-Flop [Re: silversoul7]
    #3044736 - 08/24/04 05:05 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

silversoul7 said:
Hey, it's possible.



It's my belief Kerry only does things for Kerry.


--------------------
You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity. What one person receives without working for another person must work for without receiving. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for that my dear friend is the beginning of the end of any nation. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it. ~ Adrian Rogers


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OfflineDivided_Sky
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Re: Kerry's Vietnam Flip-Flop [Re: retread]
    #3045026 - 08/24/04 06:17 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

Yeah, regardless of whether he earned those medals or not here are the facts:

Kerry slammed the war, called his fellow servicemen war criminals and compared them to Ghengis Kahn. He essentially becomes a propaganda mouthpiece for the North Vietnamese, whom the men he was serving beside (who didn't get to go home after 4 months) were still fighting.

35 years later he is campaining on serving in the Vietnam war and being a war hero.

So somehow his service in the war makes him a hero, but everyone else were war criminals? This is why the Swift Boat vets are mad, Kerry slandered and betrayed them and now is using the same issue to make himself look good. If he lied in order to get those medals it would be extremely insulting to see him campaining on his military record after trashing his fellow soldiers.


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OfflineDivided_Sky
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Re: Kerry's Vietnam Flip-Flop [Re: Tao]
    #3045055 - 08/24/04 06:24 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

TaoTeChing said:
Quote:

He comes back, realizes that the war isn't popular with the masses, so he starts to protest it.




Or maybe, just maybe, he went over and realized it was a really fucked up place, and came back and protested sending young men to die over there? a war that most now accept to have been a fucked up bad decision.





Then why is he making his tour of duty the centerpiece of his campaign? If he was burning down villages and killing civilians, why would he try to run as a war hero?
He called his fellow servicemen brutal murderers, but now he is trying to use his service to appeal to vets? He makes his war record a symbol of his partiotism when he sided with the North Vietnamese!


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Offlinezappaisgod
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Re: Kerry's Vietnam Flip-Flop [Re: Divided_Sky]
    #3045061 - 08/24/04 06:26 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

I heard on the radio today that he requested a deferment to study abroad for one year and was denied. He sure wouldn't be the only guy who enlisted so that he could pick his service as opposed to being drafted and having one chosen for him. LDS is dead right that the only nation Kerry cares about is the sovereign state of John.


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OfflineDivided_Sky
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Re: Kerry's Vietnam Flip-Flop [Re: retread]
    #3045089 - 08/24/04 06:34 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

John Kerry is trying to use his service to make him look like a patriot, and yet here he is in 1971 defending the enemy while his fellow soldiers were still fighting:

In our opinion, and from our experience, there is nothing in South Vietnam, nothing which could happen that realistically threatens the United States of America.... I want to relate to you the feeling that many of the men who have returned to this country express because we are probably angriest about all that we were told about Vietnam and about the mystical war against communism.

We found that not only was it a civil war, an effort by a people who had for years been seeking their liberation from any colonial influence whatsoever, but also we found that the Vietnamese whom we had enthusiastically molded after our own image were hard put to take up the fight against the threat we were supposedly saving them from.

We found most people didn't even know the difference between communism and democracy. They only wanted to work in rice paddies without helicopters strafing them and bombs with napalm burning their villages and tearing their country apart. They wanted everything to do with the war, particularly with this foreign presence of the United States of America, to leave them alone in peace, and they practiced the art of survival by siding With whichever military force was present at a particular time, be it Vietcong, North Vietnamese, or American.

...

We are asking Americans to think about that because how do you ask a man to be the last man to die in Vietnam? How do you ask a man to be the last man to die for a mistake? But we are trying to do that, and we are doing it with thousands of rationalizations, and if you read carefully the President's last speech to the people of this country, you can see that he says, and says clearly:

"But the issue, gentlemen, the issue is communism, and the question is whether or not we will leave that country to the Communists or whether or not we will try to give it hope to be a free people." But the point is they are not a free people now under us. They are not a free people, and we cannot fight communism all over the World, and I think we should have learned that lesson by now.


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Re: Kerry's Vietnam Flip-Flop [Re: Divided_Sky]
    #3045277 - 08/24/04 07:11 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

Divided_Sky said:
Then why is he making his tour of duty the centerpiece of his campaign? If he was burning down villages and killing civilians, why would he try to run as a war hero?
He called his fellow servicemen brutal murderers, but now he is trying to use his service to appeal to vets? He makes his war record a symbol of his partiotism when he sided with the North Vietnamese!




You make a great point! If being in Vietnam was such a "fucked up" experience, why would he try to promote it? In one era, where it was popular to be against 'Nam, he was against it. Now, he brags about his oh-so-tedious FOUR MONTHS in-country. Why does he do that?


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OfflineZahid
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Re: Kerry's Vietnam Flip-Flop [Re: retread]
    #3045358 - 08/24/04 07:28 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

I'd rather have a flip flop in office than someone who means what he says, and says what he means.


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Invisibleluvdemshrooms
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Re: Kerry's Vietnam Flip-Flop [Re: Zahid]
    #3045756 - 08/24/04 08:43 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

Zahid said:
I'd rather have a flip flop in office than someone who means what he says, and says what he means.



I hope that came out differently than you meant it.


--------------------
You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity. What one person receives without working for another person must work for without receiving. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for that my dear friend is the beginning of the end of any nation. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it. ~ Adrian Rogers


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