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Re: Selective breeding for increased potency [Re: Huskies]
    #29682216 -

I find it really interesting, but... there's one thing I'm questioning.

PF-tek obviously expresses multiple phenotypes per cake (usually), so there is diversity — but aren't we missing out on slower-growing mycelia?

I get that the faster, more aggressive strains end up colonizing and dominating over the rest, but that doesn't necessarily guarantee superior potency or yield.

I'm not saying it's a bad method — quite the opposite. I just wonder if we might be missing out on something interesting that way.

Pasty, super interesting process you've got there. Do you have a log or thread where I can read up on it in detail?

Hugs :heart:


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"Little shark in da bathtub"

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Re: Selective breeding for increased potency [Re: Belintaf] * 2
    #29682263 -

For sure that’s possible, but it’s not guaranteed. Even if it was, is higher potency cubensis worth neutering speed? Not really.

Someone else made the point, if potency is the absolute goal, just do exotics.

That being said, now I’m curious about cakes. Are some genes not that grow out there never expressed into fruits? Must be the case, selective fruiting choices.


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I call them Huskies cause they Mush!


Huskies' Grimoire
The Official Wild Cubensis Thread
Easy Instant Pot Agar
Let's Talk Cowtek

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Re: Selective breeding for increased potency [Re: Huskies]
    #29682360 -

Okay, so what’s the deal with the whole PE lineage? From what I understand, they're somewhat slower colonizers — though I'd love for someone to correct me if I'm wrong.

What happens if we mix PE spores with GT, for example? Would the PE even manage to establish itself?

I'm not overly picky with strains, but as a personal preference — I go for aggressive colonizers.

Take the last TPB cakes I fruited, for instance — the cake that colonized first was actually the last one to fruit, but it also ended up yielding the most.


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"Little shark in da bathtub"

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Re: Selective breeding for increased potency [Re: Belintaf]
    #29682366 -

Yes PE is typically slower when colonizing IME

My guess is that a GT X PE might not even cross due to the GT being so fast to germinate

I think it depends on if you are looking to actually cross it with spore dilution of if you just put millions of each spores on the plate and let nature do its thing

In the end, I think the GT pops out the majority of fruits

A cool test would be to take a PFtek and inoculate one side with GT and the other side with PE


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"Why try for high fives,
When my pies have nine lives?"
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Re: Selective breeding for increased potency [Re: langten69] * 2
    #29682390 -

PE is an agreesive colonizer usually unless there is bacteria in the mix. Where PE is slow is the pin time, often can take 4 weeks or more to pin.


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Re: Selective breeding for increased potency [Re: ambigu]
    #29682637 -

I could try to make big caps. Make multiple small cakes because each individual cake = individual genetics. I could try growing potency by rating, you say potency with GT is kinda fruitless fair enough. What about simpler things like size and how much it blues. Keep a diary each cake is a data point. Select for bluer and bluer. Bigger and bigger cap. Full grow logs. Stats. Plans. Etc to breed a certain fun trait.
They'll likely always remain potent enough. Just eat more.



So I'm soaking more popcorn. I do spawn to bulk from there just coco coir and spawn. Simple. I use shoebox tek and I make the box itself into a "chamber" by grocery bag. I'm thinking make lots of little 4 oz cakes and spawn them to bulk in there own individual chambers. Mini chambers. I need to have them good n concealable whether I start really selective breedn or just eatn em for fun.

Edited by Shroomhead2 (09/30/26 09:02 PM)

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Re: Selective breeding for increased potency [Re: Shroomhead2] * 4
    #29682642 -

For sure, but I would start with a unique cross or a wild variety, because the vendor genetics are highly bottle-necked already, and might have outbred surprises.

This Is Eungella Australian, a variety I was gifted that sprouted its own albinism independently of any existing lines. Need to do proper trip, but 5g wet was spicy.



--------------------
I call them Huskies cause they Mush!


Huskies' Grimoire
The Official Wild Cubensis Thread
Easy Instant Pot Agar
Let's Talk Cowtek

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Re: Selective breeding for increased potency [Re: Huskies]
    #29682781 -

Obtaining a wild strain as in go hunt for it? I'd love to forage. But I find I can't budget the time at this stage.

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Re: Selective breeding for increased potency [Re: Shroomhead2]
    #29682791 -

Some vendors sell spores from wild finds, and the marketplace is good as well. I did a wild ps cyan giveaway not long ago.

I know it's tone deaf to say from a place where azzies and wavys grow on the friggin ground, but I do wish I lived somewhere with wild cubes. It'd be so cool to go to costa rica or something and find a new lineage.


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.~`  𝔅 𝔞 𝔤 𝔢 𝔩  🥯  𝔅 𝔦 𝔱 𝔢 𝔰  `~.
:salute: CAKE WARS III HAPPENING NOW :salute:

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Re: Selective breeding for increased potency [Re: Shroomhead2]
    #29682854 -

Shroomhead2 said:
I could try to make big caps. Make multiple small cakes because each individual cake = individual genetics. I could try growing potency by rating, you say potency with GT is kinda fruitless fair enough. What about simpler things like size and how much it blues. Keep a diary each cake is a data point. Select for bluer and bluer. Bigger and bigger cap. Full grow logs. Stats. Plans. Etc to breed a certain fun trait.
They'll likely always remain potent enough. Just eat more.



So I'm soaking more popcorn. I do spawn to bulk from there just coco coir and spawn. Simple. I use shoebox tek and I make the box itself into a "chamber" by grocery bag. I'm thinking make lots of little 4 oz cakes and spawn them to bulk in there own individual chambers. Mini chambers. I need to have them good n concealable whether I start really selective breedn or just eatn em for fun.


Yeah sounds like a plan.

What do you mean with rating though? Eating them yourselves and rate them? If that’s what you mean, I don’t think it’s viable to do that in any objective way. Since so many external factors have such a big impact on the experience, you would need to rate every single culture many times. It also means you would need to clone every mushroom you want to rate, and grow it out to be able to trip on a specific culture multiple times. You would need to keep the setting on all trips the same as well, so after a year I would be completely bored. That would then make the experience incomparable to the experience from your first trip.

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Re: Selective breeding for increased potency [Re: ambigu] * 1
    #29682923 -

Well shit. I wish I had a team of testers to rate the potency on a scale of 0 to 10. Lol. Guess I'll just be real and make bigger bluer ones.

Edited by Shroomhead2 (10/01/26 05:32 AM)

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Re: Selective breeding for increased potency [Re: Shroomhead2]
    #29683778 -



So here I just streaked 8 plates and got some sterile ones in reserve. Say all 8 plates survive
I got 8 different sets of genetics which may have diff phenotypes and I can start tracking and selecting traits I like from there? Like pick the most bluest shrooms out of 8 different cakes if I so desire that trait? Be fun just to practice the concept of it a little bit. Even if my reasoning is wrong or if this don't lead to enough diversity to select n breed

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Re: Selective breeding for increased potency [Re: Shroomhead2]
    #29684078 -

Shroomhead2 said:
Well shit. I wish I had a team of testers to rate the potency on a scale of 0 to 10. Lol. Guess I'll just be real and make bigger bluer ones.


A team of testers is always easy to find.

Why in the world would you go for bruising as a pheno? That's the oxidation of the stuff we are going for here...


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Agar Plates and Removing Hidden Contaminants - A Visual Notebook
Recognizing Contamination in Grain Jars - A Visual Notebook
Contaminated Condiment Cup Cleanup v1.0

Green Cap Pheno Isolation

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Re: Selective breeding for increased potency [Re: DV8DUG]
    #29684126 -

Oh. So blue means oxidized trippn juice? Meaning its less psychedelic the more blue it is?

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Re: Selective breeding for increased potency [Re: Shroomhead2]
    #29684127 -

Yup. It means once, there were actives. They are blue now therefore oxidized.

But it does show that it did have the compound, which means potency, but might've lost it in the process. Stuff that doesn't bruise at all might be a bit suspect as well.


Edited by Huskies (10/02/26 03:48 PM)

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Re: Selective breeding for increased potency [Re: Huskies] * 2
    #29684348 -

The blue color comes from oxidized psilocin yes. Through the specific oxidation it undergoes via enzyme catalyst, dimers and trimers are formed. These are psilocin molecules that are bonded together into highly conjugated molecules. The conjugation causes the blue color and protects the psilocin.

With minimal heat and or acidic conditions the psilocin molecules break apart again. I would absolutely not suspect that psilocin dimers or trimers would be biologically inactive. What is most interesting to me is that the dimers and trimers should actually be a lot more stable to UV exposure and degradation long term. They are designed in such a way to reflect the most damaging light and energy exposure, while retaining their original form and remaining active. That is really a beautiful thing and well devised.

This is evidenced visibly by making mushroom tea. You can take very darkly bruised mushrooms, simmer them in water for a short period of time, and you no longer have any visible blue coloration. You can watch the same tea turn blue again after a period of time. This indicates a an easily reversible reaction, as well as shows how durable the enzymes can be as they do not denature through drying and boiling in water or exposure to acids.

A lot of reactions involving oxygen are reversible.


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Question everything, it's very responsive.

Culture Storage

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Re: Selective breeding for increased potency [Re: Nichrome]
    #29686313 -

Good morning, everyone! :goodmorning:

I have a question I've been wondering about...

I understand that to fix traits/phenotypes, you clone to agar, cultivate from there, and then go back to spores.

Would it be viable, for example, to clone directly to Pristine BRF Pucks (say, 6 pucks from the same specimen), fruit it there, and take the print?

Or do you independently have to go through agar selection after cloning?

Hugs :heart:


--------------------
"Little shark in da bathtub"

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Re: Selective breeding for increased potency [Re: Belintaf] * 1
    #29686317 -

It's all the same organism, just in different containers. You could send tissue directly to cake or grain if you're confident in your sterile technique.

But if you're trying to lock in traits, I don't know that there's much cloning necessary at all. you would put many of the spores from the print to agar as a streak so that you have many different children of the fruit that you like. Then you grow all of those out and take your next print from the one that exhibits traits you like. Having everything backed up on agar lets you go back and take a different route if it turns out you hit a dead end.


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.~`  𝔅 𝔞 𝔤 𝔢 𝔩  🥯  𝔅 𝔦 𝔱 𝔢 𝔰  `~.
:salute: CAKE WARS III HAPPENING NOW :salute:

🧪 Castellani Preservation | 🔬 The Slidewich | ☠️ Touchless skull sterilizer | 📸 Agar plate scanner


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Re: Selective breeding for increased potency [Re: Rasmodius]
    #29686368 -

Thanks, Ras.

That's precisely the point I'm not sure I fully understand.

I get that it's about 'residual variation' (not sure if that's the exact term), but if I take multiple samples from the same specimen — wouldn't I still get variable results from each one?

I understand that on agar I can select by sectors and 'homogenize' the colony — so to speak — and then take the print again.

What isn't clear to me is how this process later affects the spores.

And whether it would be possible to skip the agar step altogether, simply by observing the results from each of the different samples (from the same specimen) and continuing to select from the most similar/consistent one.

To be honest, I feel a bit confused at this point.


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"Little shark in da bathtub"

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Re: Selective breeding for increased potency [Re: Belintaf] * 1
    #29686536 -

You would still get variable results because of environmental factors. I think that’s why people often alternate MS grows with clone grows. To see if the desired traits are actually genetic. You could as well skip the whole cloning step, and just do MS grows all the time, but you might stabilise the culture (=decrease heterozygosity) without actually improving the trait you’re looking for, which would be a pity (or even making it worse).

If I wanted to select the best traits, I would try to homogenise (=decrease number of cultures) on Agar as little as possible. Only cleaning up, but no sectoring. That way you have more diversity when selecting a mushroom to make a print, with a higher chance of finding something exceptional.

Removing the Agar step is possible as Rasmodius said. This is something else as removing the cloning step (maybe this was clear already but just in case).

Hopefully this removed a bit of confusion instead of adding to it? :rofl:

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