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Re: Would love to hear opinions about this weird grow pattern in transfers *DELETED* [Re: Buthoscorpio]
    #29608168 -

Post deleted by blakeyface

Reason for deletion: I reworded it better

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Re: Would love to hear opinions about this weird grow pattern in transfers [Re: blakeyface]
    #29608182 -

Okay, this may be a learning moment for me, if what you're saying is correct. If I have cloned some pristine pan spores, no contamination whatsoever. I take it to grains, then to substrate, now it is time to case. Since there is no hidden mold, no bacteria, I should not alter the PH of the casing at all...no calcium hydroxide, no calcium carbonate...because that will simply inhibit my panaeolus mycelium. Have I got that right?

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Re: Would love to hear opinions about this weird grow pattern in transfers [Re: blakeyface]
    #29608425 -

blakeyface said:
Okay, this may be a learning moment for me, if what you're saying is correct. If I have cloned some pristine pan spores, no contamination whatsoever. I take it to grains, then to substrate, now it is time to case. Since there is no hidden mold, no bacteria, I should not alter the PH of the casing at all...no calcium hydroxide, no calcium carbonate...because that will simply inhibit my panaeolus mycelium. Have I got that right?



I have been adding calsium hydroxide to my casing for several species, I aim for a pH of 7,5-8. Calsium carbonate is mostly to keep the casing or substrate from changing pH over time.


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“All Fungi are edible.

Some fungi are only edible once.”
― Terry Pratchett


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Re: Would love to hear opinions about this weird grow pattern in transfers [Re: Kloakk]
    #29608478 -

This entire exchange seemed surreal to me. Until I used an alkaline PH in my agar, I could not get rid of the ghost halo. Then I raised the PH and the halo vanished. I was ecstatic... I had been given the solution to a print riddled with mold spores. Buthoscorpio then says no, whatever had eradicated the mold, it wasn't a high PH. Moreover, a higher PH casing for pans, which seems like a consensus here for growing pans, is not only unhelpful, but is actually harmful to the grow? Like I said, surreal

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Re: Would love to hear opinions about this weird grow pattern in transfers [Re: blakeyface]
    #29608542 -

blakeyface said:
This entire exchange seemed surreal to me. Until I used an alkaline PH in my agar, I could not get rid of the ghost halo. Then I raised the PH and the halo vanished. I was ecstatic... I had been given the solution to a print riddled with mold spores. Buthoscorpio then says no, whatever had eradicated the mold, it wasn't a high PH. Moreover, a higher PH casing for pans, which seems like a consensus here for growing pans, is not only unhelpful, but is actually harmful to the grow? Like I said, surreal



Maybe there is a misunderstanding. An pH of 8,5 is not that alkaline. Cold sterilization is done at much higher pH. A pH of 8,5 is just slightly alkaline.

Altering the pH to a slightly alkaline pH of about 8 is a favorable condition for a casing. But it will not inhibit mold growth or spore germination. Additionally, Calcium carbonate will provide Calcium and stabilize the pH at about 8.

If you would add enough Calcium hydroxide to reach of a pH of 11-12 it would strongly inhibit any mycelium growth until the pH will drop after reaction with CO2 from the atmosphere. So initially it will kill any organism. But after some time the pH will drop enough to allow mycelium growth.

As mentioned, altering the pH in a culture medium can affect the growth speed of mycelium which can help selecting a specific fungi. But this effect is not mediated via specific mold inhibition.

I just wanted to avoid that people assume they can specifically inhibit mold growth with an (slightly) alkaline pH of 8,5. That is not the case.

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Re: Would love to hear opinions about this weird grow pattern in transfers [Re: Buthoscorpio]
    #29608546 -

Okay, perhaps I misread your post or misinterpreted it. Thank you for the clarification

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Re: Would love to hear opinions about this weird grow pattern in transfers [Re: Mr Piggy]
    #29608707 -

Mr Piggy said:
Alcohol can in fact introduce contamination to your work.



Why is that tho? Of course wiping sterile stuff with alcohol is just dumb, not sure if you meant this. But apart from that I can't see how it can make things worse, generally speaking.


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Re: Would love to hear opinions about this weird grow pattern in transfers [Re: jee3apha]
    #29608722 -

jee3apha said:
Mr Piggy said:
Alcohol can in fact introduce contamination to your work.



Why is that tho? Of course wiping sterile stuff with alcohol is just dumb, not sure if you meant this. But apart from that I can't see how it can make things worse, generally speaking.



Alcohol will only kill vegetative mycelium and bacteria, but no spores. Therefore spores which might drop into the alcohol will survive and might cause/introduce a contamination later. It is not very likely though.

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Re: Would love to hear opinions about this weird grow pattern in transfers [Re: jee3apha] * 1
    #29609249 -

jee3apha said:
jee3apha said:
Mr Piggy said:
And again, it would really help if we could see your SAB setup.  Kitchen counter is a perfectly fine place to do work, it's where I started.



Will take a picture tomorrow! Nothing fancy, it's an IKEA SAMLA 65 L with 2 holes.



Here it is:



The black spot near the right hole is there because I tried to solder a crack. The fire is actually my stove, outside the picture. The light on top is turned off because if fucks with my camera, but it's super bright, that was quite an improvement.



I think it’s a good idea to remove the lid from the bottom and put the sab down directly on the counter top.  Just wipe the counter with a little iso and a paper towel first and you’re good.

If you can, get a little rack to lift your plate work off of the counter.  I use a slightly lifted cookie cooling rack on mine and it helps.

SAB work better when you keep it as simple as possible.


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🅃🄴🄰🄼 🄸🄷🄾🄿


New to cultivation or the shroomery?  Observe the hitchhiker's guide

The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Shroomery



Smellyhobbit said:
"Wiping a needle with isopropyl after flame sterilization is like shitting after you wipe your ass."

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Re: Would love to hear opinions about this weird grow pattern in transfers [Re: jee3apha] * 1
    #29609250 -

jee3apha said:
Mr Piggy said:
Alcohol can in fact introduce contamination to your work.



Why is that tho? Of course wiping sterile stuff with alcohol is just dumb, not sure if you meant this. But apart from that I can't see how it can make things worse, generally speaking.



Simply that, alcohol is a sanitizer and not a sterilizer.  Also having a SAB full of it is a big fire risk.  Most people who do this long enough have a story about blowing up an alcohol fume filled SAB.


--------------------
🅃🄴🄰🄼 🄸🄷🄾🄿


New to cultivation or the shroomery?  Observe the hitchhiker's guide

The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Shroomery



Smellyhobbit said:
"Wiping a needle with isopropyl after flame sterilization is like shitting after you wipe your ass."

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Re: Would love to hear opinions about this weird grow pattern in transfers [Re: Dave Bennett] * 2
    #29609253 -

Dave Bennett said:
When I searched the forum I couldn't find a single post from anyone who got Liberty Caps to fruit indoors.

I found this though. 😉

"Libs are NOT a beginner grow.  I suggest you get familiar with fruiting cubensis indoors as that's the beginner psilocybe." ~ Mr Piggy



You literally posted in a thread where people had already done it earlier in the thread.  Try searching without AI and actually reading through a thread.

Yes, libs are not a beginner mushroom.  Please point to where I said they are.  Not sure the gotcha you think you have here, but nothing I have said contradicts my statements about you.

Nice to know I’m in your head enough you’re desperately searching through my posts though.

Oh and listen pal, it was never a dick measuring contest.  I was showing you how to gain credit here.  You post your work, not endlessly incorrect AI garbage that sounds nice.  All people have bern asking you to do is tone down the AI diatribes and post your work.

But you know, post through it.  Must be awful having such a fragile ego 😂


--------------------
🅃🄴🄰🄼 🄸🄷🄾🄿


New to cultivation or the shroomery?  Observe the hitchhiker's guide

The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Shroomery



Smellyhobbit said:
"Wiping a needle with isopropyl after flame sterilization is like shitting after you wipe your ass."

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Re: Would love to hear opinions about this weird grow pattern in transfers [Re: jee3apha]
    #29609392 -

jee3apha said:
So I decided to try some transfers, all of them using the trench method (first attempt). I basically transferred from 3 of the previous plates:



Follows pictures of the used donor plates.

From one of the first row, I tried to transfer just the halo:



From one of the second row I tried to transfer just a wedge of the border:



From one of the third row I tried to transfer just some ropes of mycelium using a pair of tweezers:



Notice how in the meantime, the halo started looking less organized, as if it started to turn into the tomentose white mycelium on top...

I also kept one of the plates as is, just to see what happens, and how the halo will evolve.




How did this work out?

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Re: Would love to hear opinions about this weird grow pattern in transfers [Re: Mr Piggy]
    #29609701 -

Mr Piggy said:
jee3apha said:
jee3apha said:
Mr Piggy said:
And again, it would really help if we could see your SAB setup.  Kitchen counter is a perfectly fine place to do work, it's where I started.



Will take a picture tomorrow! Nothing fancy, it's an IKEA SAMLA 65 L with 2 holes.



Here it is:



The black spot near the right hole is there because I tried to solder a crack. The fire is actually my stove, outside the picture. The light on top is turned off because if fucks with my camera, but it's super bright, that was quite an improvement.



I think it’s a good idea to remove the lid from the bottom and put the sab down directly on the counter top.  Just wipe the counter with a little iso and a paper towel first and you’re good.




Yeah, unfortunately, I cannot use isopropyl on the table as it will ruin the coating (already happened...).

Quote:
If you can, get a little rack to lift your plate work off of the counter.  I use a slightly lifted cookie cooling rack on mine and it helps.



Good idea, will implement!


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Re: Would love to hear opinions about this weird grow pattern in transfers [Re: DV8DUG]
    #29609741 -

DV8DUG said:
jee3apha said:
So I decided to try some transfers, all of them using the trench method (first attempt). I basically transferred from 3 of the previous plates:



Follows pictures of the used donor plates.

From one of the first row, I tried to transfer just the halo:



From one of the second row I tried to transfer just a wedge of the border:



From one of the third row I tried to transfer just some ropes of mycelium using a pair of tweezers:



Notice how in the meantime, the halo started looking less organized, as if it started to turn into the tomentose white mycelium on top...

I also kept one of the plates as is, just to see what happens, and how the halo will evolve.




How did this work out?



So here is the followup of that post. You may have lost it since this thread is now completely a mess...

Basically, I kept transferring the most promising stuff from whatever made past the trench, with just one exception since the mycelium looked pretty strong in one section before the trench. Here's the transfer as of today, despite the mycelium looks strong it still displays the original halo (from the picture it might not seem, but the halo is made of some thin tendrils):



Similarly looking, in terms of halo, is a transfer of an agar wedge from another plate, but this time past the trench. As you can see, this time the non uniform growth is very apparent, and not justified by the shape of the transfer (as opposed as the one above):



Instead, another agar wedge past the trench from another plate seems much more promising, no halo and uniform growth pattern. I will transfer this in several other plates tomorrow, it's maybe a bit early but I'll be away a few days since Thursday:



I also, tried inoculating some plates using sterilized swabs and the same spore print, here's a detail, there's for sure some contamination, but the two more dense cultures seems legit, will transfer those as well:



Finally, I'm still keeping the plate in the above linked post, just to see how it goes. While it has grown a bit, it's pretty similar to the aforementioned picture, and that's what this mysterious halo looks like when it grows.


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Re: Would love to hear opinions about this weird grow pattern in transfers [Re: jee3apha] * 1
    #29609746 -

I'd like to add that in trying to transfer a tiny mycelium rope in one plate I somehow failed to land it on the plate, instead it must've been stayed on the tweezers. After 4 days the plate is still completely empty, no contamination, no nothing. While this isn't proof of anything, it kind of reassures me that my SAB protocol is OK, or at least not a complete disaster, and that once again, contamination in my case very likely comes from the source.


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Re: Would love to hear opinions about this weird grow pattern in transfers [Re: jee3apha]
    #29610303 -

So I tried to transfer from these two plates (the middle denser spot of the latter), which in the meantime, they too started developing the halo as well:



I also noticed that when I tried to pick and remove the mycelium from the former, the halo is right there, on the agar, right below the white fluffy mycelium. This kind of supports the idea that the halo is just a preliminary phase of the growth, yet it wouldn't really explain the uneven growth of some plates above in this thread. Jeez, what a mess...

I also kept these two, just to see what happens:



I'll try my best to keep documenting my attempt. At this point I have to conclude that I cannot get rid of that halo, whatever it is, so I'll try to fruit, just to see if I get some mushrooms to clone, then resume from there.


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Re: Would love to hear opinions about this weird grow pattern in transfers [Re: jee3apha]
    #29610323 -

I agree about the halo. I’ve transferred from the halo and it turned into clean white mycelium every time. It used to really worry me until o transferred from it

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Re: Would love to hear opinions about this weird grow pattern in transfers [Re: Awfullotofshrooms]
    #29610440 -

Awfullotofshrooms said:
I agree about the halo. I’ve transferred from the halo and it turned into clean white mycelium every time. It used to really worry me until o transferred from it



Thanks for chiming in, and glad to hear that! But did you also experience uneven growth like these? I guess I'm OK with the halo, even though I've never seen that before, is this uneven growth that worries me the most.



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Re: Would love to hear opinions about this weird grow pattern in transfers [Re: jee3apha]
    #29610525 -

I never did have uneven and random growth with the halos or any plate yet so far thankfully. For the lonngest time I was absolutely certain my plates kept getting bacterial or something

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Re: Would love to hear opinions about this weird grow pattern in transfers [Re: jee3apha]
    #29615048 -

jee3apha said:
So I tried to transfer from these two plates (the middle denser spot of the latter), which in the meantime, they too started developing the halo as well:






Some updates about the transfers.

Those from the former yielded the same pattern, that is, some thin rizomorphic halo that grows quite fast and that increasingly becomes whiter and tomentose, and in the middle some seemingly fine cubensis mycelium, yet very uneven as if disturbed by the underlying halo. I just trashed all of them, I could live with the halo, but the uneven growth really worried me. This is a picture from before that illustrates this:



The latter picture of the above quote instead was the result of a new inoculation, this time performed with a sterile swab. At the time of transferring, the upper right spot started developing the usual halo, so I focused on the one in the middle, trying my best to only transfer the good stuff. I did 3 transfers, out of which, one was completely contaminated (mixed good mycelium with some very fast growing reticulated halo, possibly different than the usual, interspersed with some other contamination possibly also bacterial ones).

Another was some mild but seemingly clean mycelium, while the last one was this very strong, white and tomentose mycelium:



This is the first time I see something like this, but looks legit, what do you guys think? I plan to transfer from this shortly.


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