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Re: Why is air fryer not better than dehydrator? [Re: Dave Bennett]
    #29582570 -

this is false, as the vacuole, where Psip enzyme is, WILL be degraded by PLASMOLYSIS and thus touch the psylocibin in the cytoplasm, turning it into psilocin.

psilocin is highly unstable, thus it WILL be lost in storage process.



the phrase you said "if enzymes was responsible the shroom would turn blue" is totally FALSE. the shroom turn blue when psilocin, that is inside the cell, touches PSIL that is a EXTRACELULAR ENZYME. that is what causes the blue color. during dehydration, only psip will touch psylocibin, turning it into the unstable psilocin, that will probably be lost in storage, and is not reliable to use.

"Bioinformatic analysis pointed to
a lysosomal localization of PsiP"

"The sequences of PsiL and PsiP suggest extracellular or
lysosomal localization, respectively"

Edited by Chiron098 (05/21/26 02:14 PM)

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Re: Why is air fryer not better than dehydrator? [Re: Dave Bennett]
    #29582573 -

I will say I was watching this thread and I tried some fruits I let sit out for about two days they were dry enough to jar up really, definitely a lot stronger then the ones I dehydrated. I’ll definitely keep the temp too at least 100 this time around previously I was doing it at 115/120 f so as not to be running it for so long and run up the energy bill drying shrooms

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Re: Why is air fryer not better than dehydrator? [Re: Chiron098]
    #29582589 -

Yes that's right. The faster plasmolysis happens the faster the integrity of the vacuole membrane is compromised. Do you know what increases the rate of plasmolysis? Elevated temperature drying.

And as I've stated to the point of ad nauseam, if the hyphal cell is undamaged any psilocin created by PsiP is rephosphorylated back into psilocybin by PsiK and the blueing reaction can't happen because PsiL is on the outside of the hyphal cell wall.

And you're contradicting yourself with your own statements. "if enzymes was responsible the shroom would turn blue" is totally FALSE. the shroom turn blue when psilocin, that is inside the cell, touches PSIL that is a EXTRACELULAR ENZYME. that is what causes the blue color." So you've claimed that enzymes aren't responsible for the blueing reaction and then described how enzymes produce the blue pigment.

You can't have it both ways.


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Re: Why is air fryer not better than dehydrator? [Re: Awfullotofshrooms]
    #29582599 -

In my experience I think most people can tell the difference in potency between air dried and elevated temperature dried fruits when they take them. Like I said earlier in the thread it's easy to test this for yourself at home by splitting a batch and air drying one lot and blasting the other in a dehydrator.


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Re: Why is air fryer not better than dehydrator? [Re: Dave Bennett]
    #29582617 -

The integrity of vacuole membrane doesn't matter if you kill the enzyme inside.

No enzymes=no enzymes degradation. Are you being intentionally dense?


Psik don't work after harvest, I've already said that. Cubensis and shitake have similar mechanisms to ATP production, and ATP production gets down by 73% after 12 hours, what is nowhere near enough to dehydrate any shroom in room temperature.

I've stated that PSIP is not responsible to blueing. PSIL is. Again, are you being intentionally dense?

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Re: Why is air fryer not better than dehydrator? [Re: Chiron098]
    #29582628 -

That's not what the paper you cited in your OP says.

"Tryptamines in fresh fruiting bodies may act enzymatically by kinases before the fruiting body is dried, as in the case of phosphorylating psilocin to psilocybin."

Just out of interest, how have you been drying all your harvests if you don't own a dehydrator?


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Edited by Dave Bennett (05/21/26 03:11 PM)

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Re: Why is air fryer not better than dehydrator? [Re: Dave Bennett] * 1
    #29582653 -

:popcorn:


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Re: Why is air fryer not better than dehydrator? [Re: Dave Bennett]
    #29582759 -

It could say, but is wrong. This part of Gotvaldova is wrong. The math is wrong as psylocibin weights more than psilocin. Thus both of them COULDN'T have 0,87 wt%.

My reason about the mechanisms prove it. Is IMPOSSIBLE to have ATP in dehydration, because ATP NEEDS **WATER**. dehydration is the process of REMOVING WATER. And without ATP Psik don't work.

Fresh shrooms extraction cannot be done without a loss of potency, as squeezing and chopping the shroom in small piece creates bruising, that is oxidized psylocibin and psilocin.

Thus this means, is the fresh shrooms that is less potent by the extraction method, not that the dried one that is more potent or created psylocibin. I already explained that.

also the study says it clearly ""Tryptamines in fresh fruiting bodies **MAY** act enzymatically by kinases before the fruiting body is dried, as in the case of phosphorylating psilocin to psilocybin."

this means that is only a possible explanation, a theory, not some thing set in stone

Edited by Chiron098 (05/21/26 10:15 PM)

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Re: Why is air fryer not better than dehydrator? [Re: Chiron098]
    #29583020 -

I must say, this is all very exciting. Who would have thought that Albert Hofmann, Gartz, 70 years of peer reviewed scientific research, the scientific consensus and forensic standards used in courts of law would all be proved wrong by someone who doesn't own a dehydrator.

As you're the expert, what's your explanation for the fact that every experiment that's ever been carried out on temperature and potency found that the hotter the drying temperature the weaker the fruits?


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Edited by Dave Bennett (05/22/26 02:34 AM)

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Re: Why is air fryer not better than dehydrator? [Re: Awfullotofshrooms]
    #29583043 -

Awfullotofshrooms said:
I will say I was watching this thread and I tried some fruits I let sit out for about two days they were dry enough to jar up really, definitely a lot stronger then the ones I dehydrated. I’ll definitely keep the temp too at least 100 this time around previously I was doing it at 115/120 f so as not to be running it for so long and run up the energy bill drying shrooms


So, was this a stable clone line or isolate that you'd developed over time, and you harvested fruits that were all the same exact size and from substrates that had been started at the same time and were identical in almost every way?

Because that would all need to be step zero of any sort of useful comparison.


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Re: Why is air fryer not better than dehydrator? [Re: B Traven] * 1
    #29583114 -

No, it was from spore. I have since clones two fruits from two different tubs and have them on agar atm to take this further and isolate something and do a fair side by side. Both fruits were similar in size and growth rate, spawned at the same time and were both taken during first flush. I transferred yesterday so both are on T1. I’m interested in seeing how much of a difference I could potentially feel for myself between the two which I think I do but as you know ms grows are not stable and consistent so I would like to give this a fair shot.

Edited by Awfullotofshrooms (05/22/26 07:22 AM)

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Re: Why is air fryer not better than dehydrator? [Re: Dave Bennett] * 3
    #29583119 -

Such comparison doesn't exist. The only table and study you said that compares shrooms dried in different conditions directly are that table that is obviously flawed, where freeze drying has **THREE TIMES** more alkaloids than the fresh shroom.

What they do is put the shroom in a temperature test to see how psylocibin will behave. They don't do a "enzymes degradation vs heat degradation" or "air drying vs heated air drying" comparison directly, that is what we are doing here.


Psylocibin is also ilegal in most countries. What this means is that you say that "oh, there's 70 years of studies on this stuff" even though there's a minimal amount of studies on psylocibin and most of them inconclusive, because doing studies for it is unconventional and no one would invest time and money in that.

Some example is that psylocibin for therapy is the most promising stuff about psylocibin in all the time ever untill now. And how much studies we have for this? Something like 10 or less.

Using studies from 70 years ago is also not smart at all, as is very probable that the studies are flawed and with wrong conclusions because of the low amount of information and the lack of technology they had in that time.

What you are doing is pretty much treating scientific studies like religion and making the scientists like god. blindly trusting in what scientists say and ignoring the flaws in their methods and the low amount of studies we have in pretty much anything related to psylocibin.

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Re: Why is air fryer not better than dehydrator? [Re: B Traven] * 2
    #29583123 -

"
Is it possible that, within a certain set of parameters, air-drying fruits and then eating them within a relatively short window provides more alkaloids and a better representation of the original profile? Maybe. But you kinda have to cherry-pick your parameters to get to that conclusion."

Based on the mechanisms i posted here, this actually make some sense. Not that it preserves more alkaloids, but because low temperature air drying would have a higher psilocin conversion, thus in short term, it would probably FEELS more potent, even with equal or smaller amount of alkaloids.

The downside is that this will be lost during long term storage, and that this is just some perception of potency, as psilocin doesn't need to be digest in the stomach directly, so it does a "heavy hit of potency" in the user.

Is pretty much what people say that Lemon Tek does.

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Re: Why is air fryer not better than dehydrator? [Re: Chiron098]
    #29583165 -

For you to be correct, seventy years of experiments and legends in the field of psychedelics and Psilocybe research like Hofmann and Gartz must be wrong. And to prove them wrong you need to explain how they all got it wrong. Clearly there must be a common flaw you've spotted in all the methods used by very single experiment that's ever been done on the subject. What is it?

And low temperature drying not only results in the highest potency fruits it also extends their shelf life during storage because psilocybin is a polymorphic substance, which means it can form several different crystalline structures when it crystallises at different temperatures and each polymorph has different properties like stability, solubility and melting point. Polymorph A is its most stable form and it forms at low temperature crystallisation temperatures. Polymorph H is its most unstable form and is formed at crystallisation temperatures over 50C. So elevated temperature drying results in weaker fruits with a much shorter shelf life.

And regarding your comment about there only being a minimal amount of research over the last seventy years, prepare to have you mind blown. If you go to the Google Scholar website and type in "Psilocybe" there have been 16,000 papers published on the the subject and if you type in "psilocybin" it's 60,500 published papers. So around 76,000 papers in total.

And if you haven't heard of Google Scholar that's where you should have been doing your research.


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Re: Why is air fryer not better than dehydrator? [Re: Dave Bennett] * 1
    #29583200 -

most of these studies are not from psylocibin experimentation, lol.

is a bunch of articles based on identification, police fosensic, intoxication etc. some proof:





all of it is just a bunch of bullshit, that don't add absolute nothing to the knowledge of psylocibin usage, behavior, knowledge, etc.

all of your reason is based on the premise that PSIK enzyme works.

the point is, it can't work without ATP.

"Energy status regulated umami compound metabolism in harvested shiitake mushrooms"

shiitake and cubensis, and actually all fungus, share the same ATP mechanism. in this study, ATP had decreased 73% in 12 hours after harvesting, just by being above some table. in cubensis being dehydrated, the percentage would be even more.

thus your reason about psik being able to do anything is just false. and everything falls with that.

if there's actually 76.000 studies, then why don't you find some reliable study, done with proper methods and proper equipment that show this to me? that shows that ATP decrease in cubensis for some miracle don't happen after harvest? that heated air drying is worse than room temperature air drying saying it directly, with DIRECT EVIDENCE AND DIRECT COMPARISON? there's 76.000 studies there isn't?

of course you can't, most of the studies don't achieve nothing.

using ad hominen is not a argument. treating scientists like "legends" is not a argument.

Edited by Chiron098 (05/22/26 09:54 AM)

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Re: Why is air fryer not better than dehydrator? [Re: Chiron098]
    #29583237 -

So to summarise, you found a research paper that you thought proved that elevated temperature drying is best for preserving potency because you didn't understand the paper or the simple charts it contained, didn't read the paper properly if at all and have a limited understanding of basic chemistry, let alone complex alkaloid chemistry.

I've proved you wrong over and over again with very paper you posted and you've revealed the limits of your knowledge because I've been able to explain everything you didn't understand on every point you've made that you think disproves seven decades of research.

You haven't been able to provide a shred of evidence that supports what you're saying from over 60,500 research papers and you can't even answer a simple question about why you think the scientific consensus and every research paper that's ever been published on the subject is wrong.

I'm perfectly happy at this stage to let readers judge who knows what they are talking about and who doesn't. 

How's that first grow coming along? Won't be long until those fruits are sizzling in your air fryer.


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Re: Why is air fryer not better than dehydrator? [Re: Dave Bennett] * 2
    #29583246 -

all you did was use ad hominen for like 5 comments in a row. i'm still waiting the study or paper, saying conclusively that psik does what you claim it does(not a theory), and one that says how long ATP lasts after harvest in cubensis.

you can keep your delusions however you want, and treat your "legend" scientists however you want.

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Re: Why is air fryer not better than dehydrator? [Re: Chiron098] * 4
    #29583260 -

Relax big dawg.


--------------------
A Love Letter to New Growers
The 7 Edicts of Mushroom Cultivation as Decreed by Smellyhobbit

:kodama:


Anyone can get a canopy. But can you get what you want?

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Re: Why is air fryer not better than dehydrator? [Re: Smellyhobbit] * 3
    #29583469 -

Smellyhobbit said:
Relax big dawg.


I feel that, I do, but there should be a corrollary "stop aggressively doubling down on misconstrued data and telling everyone here that they're stupid and ignorant compared to whoever wrote these papers you're ramming down everyone's throats."

Jussayin'.

Chilling out is usually the right move, but it can be challenging in such circumstances.


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Re: Why is air fryer not better than dehydrator? [Re: B Traven]
    #29583484 -

Mods need to intervene on this thread - let's all play nice and agree we don't have all the answers to those questions.

:shrug:


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