Centerfinger said:

I know you're an epic cultivator and can produce exquisite 2nd, 3rd flushes and I'm honestly in awe of what you do. I'm no expert by any means. To me, I think it depends on your end goal. If you are a commercial grower then you weigh out your costs vs product and would try to get the most out of a grow. For someone like me who produces for myself, a extra step of a liner, especially with odd size containers, I can't justify the means. I just want mushies and if a container doesn't produce, toss it and move on. There is always more stuff on sub or grains or agar to try some more.

Personally, liners are not worth it to alleviate side pins as side pins are just odd mushies and don't really mess anything up which would end a chance at another flush.

With cubes I rarely get to flush number 3 and my 2nd never looks as good as the first, but you sir are amazing! If I needed to squeeze every last drop, id follow you until the end.

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Asura said:

Not sure if liners would impact sub longevity. I don't think they hurt or anything.
But I never use them and I rarely get mold. My current belief is that a good casing layer
does more to prevent mold than anything else.

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ansr said:

@tree frog, how often do you mist after casing?

I gotta figure out what to case with. I don't have access to peat or jiffy mix and CVG or vermiculite only don't seem to work.

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I’ve had pretty good results with 50/40/10 coir/cactus soil/verm and also 50/50 cactus soil/verm

fahtster said:

Well I’ve seen my subs get nasty yellow slimy gunk under the sub after the second flush from sitting in pooling water either from air stone splash back or just condensing water dripping down the sides of the container.  That doesn’t affect the sub at all when a liner is used.  That’s what I mean by the liner helping with the longevity/health of a sub going further into later flushes

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Asura said:

fahtster said:

Well I’ve seen my subs get nasty yellow slimy gunk under the sub after the second flush from sitting in pooling water either from air stone splash back or just condensing water dripping down the sides of the container.  That doesn’t affect the sub at all when a liner is used.  That’s what I mean by the liner helping with the longevity/health of a sub going further into later flushes

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Yeah, I get the yellow gunk, too. I think mostly if the sub takes on too much water for too long.

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It makes a lot of sense why moving pooling water away from the side walls would promote stonger later flushes. Without it your essentially just side watering the entire time. Liners are are an overall win towards better BE but I can't get over the visibility factor

ansr said:

@tree frog, how often do you mist after casing?

I gotta figure out what to case with. I don't have access to peat or jiffy mix and CVG or vermiculite only don't seem to work.

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tree frog said:

I've tried projects where I side watered the entire time.  One went five flushes.  Clean spawn and high ratio.

I was also changing the water between flushes to clean out bacterial growth.

Anyway, mycelium is hydrophobic when it wants to be.  Aside from cutting air, which a liner does too, a well colonized substrate isn't negatively impacted by sitting in water.  Especially the thick tomentose growth like cyans.  Bisporus did take on water but it's hold on the substrate prior to the first flush is a lot weaker.

And I don't ever use a liner.  My cultures that like to side pin in clear trays don't in black ones.

Cyans also grow toward the light, most apparent during the first flush.

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