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Mushrooms, Mycology and Psychedelics > Mushroom Cultivation
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p. clandestina/turbinae | etiolated hypocotyl method * 1
    #29326508 -

I was recently given some untreated seeds (ipomoea tricolor) which is symbiotic with periglandula clandestina. these get pretty hard and it is recommended to slightly clip the pointy seeds with scissors to get them germinated. the earth was hydrated to about 60% field capacity, about 100 were sprinkled across then barely covered. it was misted with distilled water then put here:



temp is around 66

Edited by rebeccah (08/28/25 09:36 PM)

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Re: periglandula clandestina [Re: rebeccah] * 2
    #29326510 -

Sweet. May I ask how you are certain they contain periglandula clandistina? And are you trying to isolate it? Or just growing some morning glory and hoping for seeds and happenstance magic? What’s the end goal?

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re: p. clandestina/turbinae | etiolated hypocotyl method [Re: phytophthora]
    #29326518 -

I'm not but according to AI nearly 100% of wild populations have it. the main goal is to tinker with the variables to get specific psychoactivity.


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🔑KEY FRUITS🔑

Edited by rebeccah (08/28/25 09:38 PM)

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Re: periglandula clandestina [Re: phytophthora] * 2
    #29326524 -

Are you going to try to culture it?

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re: p. clandestina/turbinae | etiolated hypocotyl method [Re: cjbinks] * 1
    #29326544 -

Quote:
Are you going to try to culture it?


I don't know. here are some at 22 days old:



this setup is completely portable. I may have the fruits analyzed at different stages of development.


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🔑KEY FRUITS🔑

Edited by rebeccah (08/28/25 09:38 PM)

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Re: periglandula clandestina [Re: rebeccah] * 4
    #29326557 -

Considering it took nearly 75 years of some of the smartest minds to even discover definitively whether the lysergamides were fungal in origin, I’d wish you much luck! Albert Hoffman himself went to his deathbed having convinced himself otherwise, despite originally hypothesizing the theory. It took non-discriminatory DNA advancement to even detect it could realistically be fungal, and the woman who successfully took the transfer got exceptionally lucky and had the support of very knowledgeable mentors who were looking for this exact phenomenon. Anyway, fun weekend project at least. :mushroom2:

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re: p. clandestina/turbinae | etiolated hypocotyl method [Re: phytophthora]
    #29327331 -

it'll be cold here soon so I am thinking about getting these between the house when it does. an idea I had was to switch from ideal herbal conditions to ideal fungal positions during this period.


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🔑KEY FRUITS🔑

Edited by rebeccah (08/28/25 09:37 PM)

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re: p. clandestina/turbinae | etiolated hypocotyl method [Re: rebeccah]
    #29328150 -

thread reformatted with new experimental technique. daily bump.


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🔑KEY FRUITS🔑

Edited by rebeccah (08/28/25 09:37 PM)

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Re: re: p. clandestina/turbinae | etiolated hypocotyl method [Re: rebeccah]
    #29330246 -

Glad to see this thread!!

Let me gather my notes on P. clandestina to post here I think they should be helpful.

I will be experimenting with agar recipes this year, as P. clandestina can be grown independent of its host on MEA, although very slowly.

I believe after germinating the seeds, you should be able to isolate P. clandestina from the seed hull.

In regards to your wild type, it can be difficult to distinguish between I. tricolor, I. purpurea, etc.. and the latter does not have the symbiotic relationship AFAIK. I wouldn't believe AI on this, specific varieties, cultivars, populations, etc can be affected by the fungi and some could not be.

I think it would be best to work with a Heavenly Blue variety and brand that is confirmed to have the symbiote.

Edited by Mahdi (08/30/25 06:04 PM)

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Re: re: p. clandestina/turbinae | etiolated hypocotyl method [Re: rebeccah] * 2
    #29330253 -

This is either trolling or extremely misguided. I find it hard to believe you have ever even cultured a cube, let alone clandestina. Going by an AI response is all you have to even believe you have clandestina. You haven’t confirmed it. You’re just starving a plant of light and hoping for best.

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Re: re: p. clandestina/turbinae | etiolated hypocotyl method [Re: phytophthora] * 1
    #29330262 -

I think both you and the OP could use some research on the subject.

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Re: re: p. clandestina/turbinae | etiolated hypocotyl method [Re: Mahdi] * 1
    #29330270 -

Teach us! :heart:

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Re: re: p. clandestina/turbinae | etiolated hypocotyl method [Re: phytophthora] * 3
    #29330296 -

Just my S .02. I've cultivated several species of Ipomoea, Turbina, Convolvulus, Argyreia and Calystegia. Some of those have an endosymbiont that produces alkaloids. Most of the endosymbionts are host-specific, so if your plant determination is correct and the plant produces specific effects in bioassays*, you can pretty much assume you have a specific fungus on your plants.

So that's all cool and can provide for a decent trip, just don't expect a wild ride. Now, cultivating fungi that evolved in and on a very specific host is a totally different thing. Grabbing aerial hyphae from a living plant is an absolute PITA. Putting seeds or seed husks on agar is inviting an entire party of microorganisms. While it isn't even sure if the Periglandula will grow without, or away from, its host. I am no stranger to agar and haven't managed to pull it off. I know it's mentioned in the literature, but this isn't some Psilocybe that wants to go at it if there's enough dead matter.
Also, the circumstances that make the fungus thrive are the circumstances that make the plant thrive, the two are interconnected. Maybe you could increase aerial myc a little by providing high RH and shielding from raindrops, for example, but what does this say about alkaloid production? What will the deterioration of the host mean? Etc.

Like I said, just my 2 cents. I found trying to cultivate Periglandula (just like Gloeotinia or Claviceps) to be of an entirely different level than cultivating saprophytic fungi.


* Most morning glories produce effects anyway, either because of tropine-like alkaloids, glycosides or toxins that are also produced by epiphytic/ endosymbiont fungi, but once you get to know ergine and related alkaloids, you know. You know?


--------------------
No nation, no border
Fight law and order


Species grown so far

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Re: re: p. clandestina/turbinae | etiolated hypocotyl method [Re: phytophthora] * 1
    #29330303 -

"Using quantitative polymerase chain reaction (qPCR), the fungus was quantified most abundantly in hypocotyls of I. tricolor, with lesser quantities in stems, cotyledons, and leaves."
https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/40261263/


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trades \ best ratio? \ avoiding algorithms \ cigs and cinnamon / guess what this is \ ürbï êt ørbî

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Re: re: p. clandestina/turbinae | etiolated hypocotyl method [Re: phytophthora]
    #29330322 -

The recent Mycologia paper really helps clarify a lot of the speculation here. Using qPCR, they showed Periglandula clandestina is most abundant in the hypocotyls of I. tricolor, with lesser amounts in stems, cotyledons, and leaves. No fungal DNA was detected in roots, but ergot alkaloids were still present throughout the plant, so the fungus is producing them, and the plant is distributing them via its own transport system.

Importantly, this isn’t an endophyte or a saprophyte you can just plate and expect to behave like a cube. Periglandula is epibiotic, living on glandular trichomes, and the association seems pretty tightly coupled to the living host. They did manage to culture it on malt extract agar, but it grew extremely slowly and without spores. So technically it’s possible, but definitely not the same as throwing spores onto agar.

For perspective, Alan Rockefeller pointed out that Periglandula was always thought not to grow on agar, but the new study showed it actually will, on MEA, a 2 mm colony after 6 weeks. That’s about a quarter of the speed of Amanita muscaria.

When I talked with him about it, I noted that it’s actually surprising it can grow at all outside the host. P. clandestina is an obligate epibiont adapted to nutrient-poor plant surfaces, so jumping onto a carbohydrate-rich, wet medium and still managing to put on any growth is pretty remarkable. The extremely slow pace makes sense in that light, but the fact it shows any environmental flexibility is impressive.

I plan on reaching out to Corinne Hazel, the grad student at WVU who co-authored the Mycologia paper, to learn more about their methods for isolating the fungus. If I get any insights from her about culturing Periglandula independently of the host, I’ll circle back and share them here.

As far as confirming its presence, my point stands: not all Ipomoea species or cultivars carry the symbiont. Heavenly Blue is the most consistently documented. Without sequencing or at least alkaloid analysis, it’s guesswork whether a given seed lot has P. clandestina.

To put that in context, here’s a useful reference figure from a large phylogenetic study showing which Ipomoea species tend to have ergot alkaloids (orange = no, blue = yes). It highlights the clear clade-level association, but keep in mind that this represents broader species trends, individual cultivars and seed lots may still vary. It's a complex relationship.



Edited by Mahdi (08/30/25 06:01 PM)

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Re: re: p. clandestina/turbinae | etiolated hypocotyl method [Re: Mahdi]
    #29330401 -

So what I said is true?

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Re: re: p. clandestina/turbinae | etiolated hypocotyl method [Re: phytophthora] * 1
    #29330411 -

most likely, op could of had 10-20 seeds to make sure they were psychoactive meaning the fungus is present.


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trades \ best ratio? \ avoiding algorithms \ cigs and cinnamon / guess what this is \ ürbï êt ørbî

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Re: re: p. clandestina/turbinae | etiolated hypocotyl method [Re: phytophthora]
    #29330420 -

Yes, it’s a very challenging system, though not as difficult and mysterious as you made it seem to the OP.

The fact that P. clandestina can grow independently on MEA makes it, in my view, a worthy candidate for further experimentation using the new information available.

Criticizing the OP without offering constructive guidance is counterproductive and usually reflects a lack of understanding of the subject.

Edited by Mahdi (08/30/25 06:20 PM)

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Re: re: p. clandestina/turbinae | etiolated hypocotyl method [Re: Mahdi]
    #29330663 -

Seems you are doing a fair amount of presumption yourself. :justdontknow:

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Re: re: p. clandestina/turbinae | etiolated hypocotyl method [Re: phytophthora] * 1
    #29330881 -

This is a newly discovered Periglandula species that lives, mind you, on I. tricolor (host of P. ipomoeae), but not in the roots. The roots do contain ergot alkaloids, however. So it isn't said at all that it provides a significant portion of the ergot alkaloids. Which we know P. ipomoeae does.

The study has not yet been repeated. It's interesting matter, and I didn't know of it. But bear with me here. It grew 2 mm on agar in six weeks. Once. In an unknown setting. It normally grows on a plant that overgrows everything. Literally. With the slightest care.

I'm sorry to say, even though it does spark my interest, but I'm pretty sure this is going to be another lifehack re: ergot alkaloids that'll slowly fade away. Sorry to say it, I mean that. As someone who's tried every preparation and supposed kitchen modification, searched high and low for weird Stictocardia seeds, rare Argyreias, newly discovered Ipomoeas, grown different species of Claviceps etc etc.
Morning glories are really cool, but IME everyone who's had LSD tries to find the next step, or the next prep, with the plants. Haven't heard of anyone succeeding.

Edit: sorry for potentially being a buzzkill. Going through some difficult shit atm and it's fucking with my perception. I shouldn't be spouting negative bs like this. By all means, experiment away.


--------------------
No nation, no border
Fight law and order


Species grown so far

Edited by Churpee Choozle (08/31/25 08:51 AM)

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