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OfflineTerillius
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Oven Sterilization Method Success
    #5974058 - 08/17/06 07:33 PM (17 years, 5 months ago)

This will be my first real contribution to the community, I hope some people will test this out and post here how it works out.

Oven Sterilization for PF Jars

This explains the method I used to sterilize standard 1/2 pint PF jars in my conventional oven.  I achieved 12/12 jars with no contamination so I am convinced that this method is more reliable than the pot-on-stove method and is far more convenient.  The jars grew remarkably well so I know that the moisture balance was not changed for the worse and the substrate was not otherwise damaged.

First prep jars with your chosen mix of substrate and make sure to punch holes in the lids so they don't explode in the oven.

Next, cover them each with a layer of aluminum foil.  Make sure the foil is tight to prevent losing or gaining moisture during the process.

Place your jars on a standard size cookie sheet.  One of these things holds 12 jars just peachy.

Fill the sheet with water to 3/4 of the top.

Make a foil pocket for the whole thing so that moisture won't escape.  This should be pretty tight, but doesn't need to be perfect.

Put the whole thing one level above the bottom in the oven so the bottom is close to the lower heating element in the oven, but not too close.  I did it this way because the bottom of the jars is more critical to sterilize than the top.

Bake them for 90min at 325 degrees F.  I actually put the jars sometime while the oven was preheating so this time could be knocked down.  I chose 90min simply because the movie I was watching ran about that long.  Next time, I think I will bump the temp a little or let the jars go longer.  That is simply my subjective, unvalidated, hunch opinion and maybe a little paranoid, but at least I told you.

Cool quickly by placing ice on the top and/or running water into the pocket so it fills the tray.  It is really easy to put the tray on a standard double-sink and let the water run over the jars for a while.  This is optional, of course. You could set the oven timer and go to sleep.  Mmmmm.... Sleep.

In theory the pocket fills with steam which helps transfer heat to the jars and prevents moisture loss.  As I mentioned, none of the jars in my test batch showed contamination or slowed growth.  I should mention that I rapidly cooled the jars with ice water and inoculated them ~30 minutes after I cooked them so any bacteria, etc, left in the jars did not have time to take over.  This is a moot point, however, since immediate innoc is what should be done anyway.

This whole process is less time consuming than the standard pot-on-stove method because 12 jars takes me three batches at 60min each.  This takes half the time, requires no monitoring/modification during the cooking phase, and is much cleaner.  I tend to favor this over a PC for the same reasons.  Of course, a PC is a more proven method, I am aware of that fact I just don't have one :smile:

Thanks for reading!  I plan to post pictures when I do this again in a week or so.

***UPDATE*** PICS!!!!

These are pics of the jars I cooked, 15 days later.  They went from cooked to cooled to ~84 degrees F.  They are golden teacher on standard PF cakes.  They look great and very rhizo, but what would I know, I only have 70 posts...  :evil:





Edited by Terillius (08/17/06 09:20 PM)


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Offlinefaceyneck
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Re: Oven Sterilization Method Success [Re: Terillius]
    #5974067 - 08/17/06 07:37 PM (17 years, 5 months ago)

Have you only done this once?

Are the jars fully colonized?


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OfflineTerillius
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Re: Oven Sterilization Method Success [Re: faceyneck]
    #5974087 - 08/17/06 07:44 PM (17 years, 5 months ago)

I have only done it once. The jars are 100% and will be birthed when I find time this weekend.


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Offlinefaceyneck
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Re: Oven Sterilization Method Success [Re: Terillius]
    #5974096 - 08/17/06 07:48 PM (17 years, 5 months ago)

You should repeat this many, many times, and then average out your findings. Maybe you have a good tek here.


--------------------
Anything posted here, is total bullshit.
My Meyers-Briggs Personality: INTJ
New growers, or anyone else just needing help; I'm always glad to help right here. :grin:


We give cultivation advice here. :super:


AMU Q & A - We're glad to help
My Doggy Door Greenhouse!          First Ever Shmuvbox Tek!          Do Manure Right!


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Offlinekristen
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Re: Oven Sterilization Method Success [Re: Terillius]
    #5974104 - 08/17/06 07:51 PM (17 years, 5 months ago)

"I achieved 12/12 jars with no contamination so I am convinced that this method is more reliable than the pot-on-stove method and is far more convenient."

One experiment is hardly enough to prove a point on contamination rate.

"You could set the oven timer and go to sleep."

Sounds like a fire waiting to happen. You never leave an electrical appliance on and go to sleep.

"This is a moot point, however, since immediate innoc is what should be done anyway."

I bet the inside of those jars were still nice and hot. You should wait over-night to make sure they are fully cooled, actually.


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OfflineTerillius
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Re: Oven Sterilization Method Success [Re: faceyneck]
    #5974119 - 08/17/06 07:57 PM (17 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

faceyneck said:
You should repeat this many, many times, and then average out your findings. Maybe you have a good tek here.




Thanks master scientist, I hadn't thought of that. Oh, wait, maybe that is exactly why I posted here, so some small part of the huge community could help me test it out. Maybe YOU should help me test it out.


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Offlineroyer
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Re: Oven Sterilization Method Success [Re: kristen]
    #5974120 - 08/17/06 07:57 PM (17 years, 5 months ago)

you should put pics of the jars up.


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OfflineTerillius
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Re: Oven Sterilization Method Success [Re: kristen]
    #5974132 - 08/17/06 08:02 PM (17 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

kristen said:
One experiment is hardly enough to prove a point on contamination rate.




I said the truth, that is all.

Quote:


Sounds like a fire waiting to happen. You never leave an electrical appliance on and go to sleep.




Um, yes you do. You leave your water heater on all the time, your central heating, clocks, lights, chargers, blankets, and all manner of devices designed and rigourously tested to do exactly what they are supposed to do.

Quote:


I bet the inside of those jars were still nice and hot. You should wait over-night to make sure they are fully cooled, actually.




Did you miss the part where the jars are 100% and look great?


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Invisiblecreamcorn
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Re: Oven Sterilization Method Success [Re: royer]
    #5974137 - 08/17/06 08:03 PM (17 years, 5 months ago)

so you baked them in a water bath covered with a foil pocket

that's different from steam sterilizing in a pot, how?

and thank your lucky stars you didn't shatter your jars... making glass cool rapidly is a sure way to crack it. i don't suggest anybody else do that if they know whats good for 'em.


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OfflineTerillius
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Re: Oven Sterilization Method Success [Re: creamcorn]
    #5974154 - 08/17/06 08:11 PM (17 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

creamcorn said:
so you baked them in a water bath covered with a foil pocket

that's different from steam sterilizing in a pot, how?





Yeah, it's different because I used an oven.

Quote:


and thank your lucky stars you didn't shatter your jars... making glass cool rapidly is a sure way to crack it. i don't suggest anybody else do that if they know whats good for 'em.




I thought of that too, I guess I might just be as cool as you guys. They were still in the pocket when I put ice on them, cooling from the top, through foil and the metal lids. They didn't shatter and it would be very unlikely for them to do so except at much higher temps or if I dropped them in some ice water or something.


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Invisiblecreamcorn
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Re: Oven Sterilization Method Success [Re: Terillius]
    #5974161 - 08/17/06 08:16 PM (17 years, 5 months ago)

i've had old quart jars crack in my hands simply by taking them out of the PC immediately after the sterilization run. just going from 250 to room temp did it. better safe than sorry. you got about 6 weeks time from when you're sterilizing pf jars to when you're harvesting fruits, a few extra hours to prevent wasting effort and materials seems prudent to me but to each their own...


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OfflineTerillius
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Re: Oven Sterilization Method Success [Re: creamcorn]
    #5974174 - 08/17/06 08:21 PM (17 years, 5 months ago)

I just don't understand why you have to be all condescending about it. Why can't you just say, "Be careful! Cooling your jars too quickly could make them crack!" See how civilized and efficient it is to be polite?


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OfflineVelocity92C
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Re: Oven Sterilization Method Success [Re: Terillius]
    #5974205 - 08/17/06 08:32 PM (17 years, 5 months ago)

Terillius, I'm still a noobie here but you're so defensive. Who are you trying to convince here, us or you?


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OfflineTerillius
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Re: Oven Sterilization Method Success [Re: Velocity92C]
    #5974239 - 08/17/06 08:39 PM (17 years, 5 months ago)

I have to be defensive when 4 people ass rape me for posting a new idea. I didn't post this as a "tek" because, yes, it is untested. I never suggest it is THE NEW way to do things. My only goal was to share an idea I had that worked out well for me. That's it.


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InvisiblePigsarefood
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Re: Oven Sterilization Method Success [Re: Terillius]
    #5974247 - 08/17/06 08:42 PM (17 years, 5 months ago)

im going to have to try this.


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Invisiblecreamcorn
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Re: Oven Sterilization Method Success [Re: Terillius]
    #5974267 - 08/17/06 08:48 PM (17 years, 5 months ago)

sorry if it sounds condescending, its not my intention.

hang out for a while and you'll see almost on a weekly basis people post how they sterilized their jars in a microwave or an oven or some other crazy contraption.  yes, it can work.  we know this.  the problem isn't that it doesn't work, but its inconsistent.

and sorry, but the jars cooling thing, is just bad practice.  to suggest people cool them in such a manner is bad advice, period.  i'm looking out for people who don't have common sense (and believe me there's a whole bunch of them) that are going to think its ok to take a piping hot jar fresh from sterilization and stick it in the freezer, then come here wondering why it broke.  patience is a virtue they say, and even more so than normal in this hobby.  doing risky things the fast way, is the wrong attitude if again, you're looking for consistent successes.  growing aside all together, i grew up in an italian family that produced dozens upon dozens of quart jars of tomato sauce once every few months... jars that were sterilized in a pressure canner.  much like how we prepare substrate jars.  as silly as it sounds, i've sterilized hundreds of jars in my day long before even growing.  and i certainly don't forget cleaning tomato sauce and broken glass off the floor every time one of them cracked because somebody was impatient with them. :wink:

not everybody is going to follow your directions no matter how well you word them, half-ass it, and again wonder why they failed. :smile:  that's not to say you don't have the common sense to have rigged something up that really works.  its just that "stick them in a pot and boil" is pretty well fool proof.  understand that the method you've come up with, is making a makeshift pot out of aluminum foil, and using an oven as the heat source.  water boils at the same temperature whether its on a stovetop burner or inside an oven regardless of how high you crank up the oven.  so you're not gaining anything by putting them in an oven, rather than on a stove top... other than getting away with using a pot.  (which, can certainly be useful for somebody who doesn't have a pot large enough for the number of jars they intend to process, so kudos for the thinking there.)

you got lucky, on sterilizing, and on not shattering your jars.  12/12 is a good start.  keep at it and let us know how it goes.  i lose about 1 in 100 when using a pressure cooker, and more likely than not those are fluke contams that happen during inoculation, not from improper sterilization.  and i'm not basing that on 100 jars, i'm basing it on a few hundred.  i can count the number of contaminated pressure cooked jars i've had in my life on one hand.  it will take some more repetitions to reveal how consistent your way really is.

its awesome you want to contribute.  and perhaps others will find the results repeatable and convenient in their situations.  and that's great.  but understand, there's reasons experienced growers suggest leaving the oven and microwave methods as a last result.  they're simply not consistent.  there's also a reason i strongly urge people to let jars cool slowly and naturally.  because they're fragile when temperature changes are involved!


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OfflineTerillius
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Re: Oven Sterilization Method Success [Re: creamcorn]
    #5974308 - 08/17/06 08:59 PM (17 years, 5 months ago)

OK, I know I am defensive, but I feel like everyone should defend themselves. The issue I have is with your big-brother attitude towards me for some reason. The only reason I can imagine is my low post count. After all, what else do you know about me?

When you use language like, "its awesome you want to contribute," and, "thank your lucky stars you didn't shatter your jars," you are talking down to me. Quite simply, you are not above me. Ever. What do you base your superior attitude on? For all you know, I have been canning peaches from my family's orchard all my life and we have equal experience. You are putting me below you and that is unacceptable.


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OfflineChromeCrow
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Re: Oven Sterilization Method Success [Re: Terillius]
    #5974321 - 08/17/06 09:02 PM (17 years, 5 months ago)

i agree with you, that this can be an alternative method, tho nothing beats a pc.

but i see where creamcorn is coming from.

this can be a dangerouse hobby if you dont respect the equipment

ive sliced the fuck out of my hand beating the ( perfectly fine ) jar on my palm to break apart grain

ive seen two pc's explode. and the damage they do

and i also have had jars fall apart picking them up after a short cooling time.( not even straight from the pc)


people worry about eating a bad shroom, but there is 99.9% better chance your more likely to get hurt by 1) being a dumbass 2) hurrying or 3) not knowing the equipment/process


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Invisiblecreamcorn
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Re: Oven Sterilization Method Success [Re: Terillius]
    #5974360 - 08/17/06 09:11 PM (17 years, 5 months ago)

well i don't know what to tell you other than you're reading into it all wrong. 

people are welcome to take my advice as much as they're welcome to take yours.  its out there on offer, this is an interactive discussion forum, and that's the point... so leave it at that.  i'm not exactly sure what you're trying to accomplish by being defensive, when there could be a constructive dialogue.  but you can't expect to post ideas if you can't take criticism... works that way here and works that way in life.  and if you step aside for a minute and realize that i'm not criticizing YOU as a person, you might get something out of my comments besides getting your panties all twisted up. :wink:

get used to it, great minds are faced with opposition every step of the way  :thumbup:


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OfflineTerillius
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Re: Oven Sterilization Method Success [Re: ChromeCrow]
    #5974363 - 08/17/06 09:12 PM (17 years, 5 months ago)

The point I am trying to make here is that I am a mature capable MAN and not some stupid kid. If I blow myself up I will be to blame, but that won't happen because I have common sense. All I want is to be treated like an equal. Like the founding fathers wanted, like YOUR music preaches.

Back on task, I am adding pics to the post right now, someone wanted pics of the jars.


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