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OfflineRogerRabbitM
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Re: Oven Sterilization Method Success [Re: Terillius]
    #5974564 - 08/17/06 10:14 PM (17 years, 5 months ago)

No. You can't sterilize in the oven. Period.

I'm certain you could have had the same success/failure simply using the jars without the oven. Many people have used BRF with no heat treatment whatsoever.

A simple fact of physics is that if the interior of your jars had reached 100C/212F, they would have been as dry as the sand in the Sahara Desert. Therefore, you didn't sterilize your jars.

There is a slight chance those will fruit, but a greater chance they will fail, so it would have been more prudent to post your results after they fruit or turn green. However, they weren't sterilized, so don't assume they were.
RR


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"I've never had a failed experiment.  I've only discovered 10,000 methods which do not work."
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OfflineTerillius
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Re: Oven Sterilization Method Success [Re: RogerRabbit]
    #5974597 - 08/17/06 10:32 PM (17 years, 5 months ago)

Did you even read the post? I know you by reputation and you are no idiot, maybe you just skimmed past some critical parts. I will bet that I could plop a thermometer in a jar, follow this method to the letter, and it would damn sure be close to 212F.

Okay, okay, I will totally come off myself and humble myself to your wisdom. All I want to know is why? Why, by the laws of physics, can the jars not possibly have reached 212F?


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Invisiblecreamcorn
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Re: Oven Sterilization Method Success [Re: Terillius]
    #5974604 - 08/17/06 10:33 PM (17 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

Terillius said:
The point I am trying to make here is that I am a mature capable MAN and not some stupid kid




haha who's seen freddy got fingered?

"i can eat a roast beef sandwich if i want!"


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Invisiblecreamcorn
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Re: Oven Sterilization Method Success [Re: Terillius]
    #5974610 - 08/17/06 10:39 PM (17 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

Terillius said:
Okay, okay, I will totally come off myself and humble myself to your wisdom.  All I want to know is why?  Why, by the laws of physics, can the jars not possibly have reached 212F?




because water turns into vapor at 212F.  there'd be none left had it really reached that temp.  technically boiling jars in a pot of water isn't sterilizing either... but its good enough for the purposes of PF tek.  sterilization requires moist heat @ 250F (which can only be accomplished under pressure), or dry heat at higher temperatures for longer periods of time.  like i mentioned just because the temp in your oven was 325 or whatever, is irrelevant, because they were in a water bath, and because the jars themselves contain moisture.  i think its a little harsh to say they're likely to fail, once mycelium is established and especially now that your cakes are near completely colonized they're pretty likely to work fine.  but i still say you got lucky. :smile:


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OfflineTerillius
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Re: Oven Sterilization Method Success [Re: creamcorn]
    #5974619 - 08/17/06 10:44 PM (17 years, 5 months ago)

I know, but also by the laws of nature, a mass of something must completely reach the phase change temp before a phase change can occur. The idea is to hold the highest temp possible, ~212F, for long enough that anything killed by that temp is dead, but significant water is not lost. If you consider the cake a single mass, the whole thing must reach 212F before the water can boil. Obviously, the point of a PC is to raise the temp a little more, but I don't have a PC. If I had one I would use it and so would anyone. If I had one, I wouldn't have written this post.


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OfflineRogerRabbitM
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Re: Oven Sterilization Method Success [Re: Terillius]
    #5974654 - 08/17/06 11:01 PM (17 years, 5 months ago)

I would suggest you get a $40 PC if you want to pursue the hobby. The only way your substrate could have reached 212F is to boil off 100% of the moisture within. That is a fact. Sterilization requires a higher temperature than 212F, so in no way were those jars sterilized. Good luck with your project.
RR


--------------------
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semper in excretia sumus solim profundum variat

"I've never had a failed experiment.  I've only discovered 10,000 methods which do not work."
Thomas Edison


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InvisibleTippinthru
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Re: Oven Sterilization Method Success [Re: RogerRabbit]
    #5974666 - 08/17/06 11:07 PM (17 years, 5 months ago)

RR is RIGHT.

Ovens BAKE.

That works for turkeys, etc.

Not mushroom SPAWN or SUBSTRATE.


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OfflineTerillius
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Re: Oven Sterilization Method Success [Re: RogerRabbit]
    #5974678 - 08/17/06 11:11 PM (17 years, 5 months ago)

You are wrong. You need to take High School Physical Science again, or maybe for the first time...?

Now that you have written me off with, "Good luck with your project," maybe you will go away. I don't give a shit what you suggest, you are just a person, same as me.


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OfflineMustardMan
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Re: Oven Sterilization Method Success [Re: Terillius]
    #5974753 - 08/17/06 11:41 PM (17 years, 5 months ago)

Yo Terillius, don't listen to all these rude comments, I read your post and though I believe PC'ing, or even Steam Sterilization works best, I found it very interesting...

Thanks for posting, I just might try this sometime.


Oh, and just a tip, learn to listen to RogerRabbit, hes a Myco legend  :mushroom2:


--------------------
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Cultivated Cubensis


Edited by MustardMan (08/17/06 11:42 PM)


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OfflineTerillius
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Re: Oven Sterilization Method Success [Re: MustardMan]
    #5975072 - 08/18/06 02:09 AM (17 years, 5 months ago)

I totally thought Roger rocked, but nobody should write off an effort like this at a new tek, let alone someone who has been experimenting for years and discovering new things. I detest the attitude of the mountain for the mouse, especially when I am only a mouse because of post count. One of these days the mice are going to discover dynamite...

Thanks for the support man, I really appreciate it.


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Invisiblecreamcorn
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Re: Oven Sterilization Method Success [Re: Terillius]
    #5975329 - 08/18/06 07:50 AM (17 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

Terillius said:
I totally thought Roger rocked, but nobody should write off an effort like this at a new tek




you're still missing part of the point here... and that this is not NEW. this is repeated constantly. that's part of what gets everyone so peeved. look at the bottom of the page, "Related threads" or better yet try the search engine.

http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/3919109

hey look, a guy that wanted to put jars in a tray of water covered with foil and baked in the oven in 2002! whattya know


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OfflineTerillius
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Re: Oven Sterilization Method Success [Re: Terillius]
    #5975772 - 08/18/06 12:29 PM (17 years, 5 months ago)

I intend to drop this argument. I also intend to continue this experiment. I hope the naysayers will also drop it and leave me alone. In the hypocritical spirit of these forums, I will close by saying...

"Peace"


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Offlinekristen
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Re: Oven Sterilization Method Success [Re: Terillius]
    #5975792 - 08/18/06 12:39 PM (17 years, 5 months ago)

How is it hypocritical? You have experienced people here telling you your logic is flawed and it is not possible for it to work. You're still on cakes, bud. Some of these people are pulling pounds a month. If your only intention is to play around and experiment, fine and dandy. But this won't make it as a major tek and should only be considered an experiment. Sorry.


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OfflineTerillius
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Re: Oven Sterilization Method Success [Re: kristen]
    #5975835 - 08/18/06 12:58 PM (17 years, 5 months ago)

I explained that to you in this post, I really did.  Then I realized that I just barely said I was dropping the argument.  You are just another arrogant asshole who dropped in to abuse me.  Go away.  If you aren't interested in this experiment GO AWAY!


:blowme:


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Offlinekristen
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Re: Oven Sterilization Method Success [Re: Terillius]
    #5976100 - 08/18/06 02:52 PM (17 years, 5 months ago)

Arrogant assholes trying to abuse you? Are you drunk? We're just trying to tell you it won't work to save you time and HELP you learn, not abuse you. Smoke a joint, mang.


Edited by kristen (08/18/06 02:53 PM)


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OfflineShrum821
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Re: Oven Sterilization Method Success [Re: Terillius]
    #5976150 - 08/18/06 03:12 PM (17 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

kristen said:
If your only intention is to play around and experiment, fine and dandy. But this won't make it as a major tek and should only be considered an experiment. Sorry.





Quote:

Terillius said:
I have to be defensive when 4 people ass rape me for posting a new idea.  I didn't post this as a "tek" because, yes, it is untested.  I never suggest it is THE NEW way to do things.  My only goal was to share an idea I had that worked out well for me.  That's it.




Hmmm.... :rolleyes:

He is just happy that he tried an experiment and it worked, and he wanted to share, give him a break, those jars look nice to me.

Nice work man, dont listen to these others tryin to feel good by bringin you down. I dont have a PC anymore and ill definitly give your method a try. Good luck on the next experiment  :thumbup:  :mushroom2:


Edited by Shrum821 (08/18/06 03:13 PM)


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OfflineWronguy
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Re: Oven Sterilization Method Success [Re: Shrum821]
    #5976558 - 08/18/06 05:29 PM (17 years, 5 months ago)

Terillius, take a step back here for a moment and chill out. The purpose of this community is to promote knowledge and discussion. There is not a single person in this community, myself included, that has posted some technique or added some form of value without first being critiqued. It's the nature of things around here.

We are all trying to reach the same goal and that's to grow mushrooms in the shortest amount of time, contaminate free, and using the absolute best methods available.

I would hate to lose another member of this community, but if you can't learn to take constructive criticism you may wish to seek solace elsewhere. Again, I DO NOT want to lose another member here This is not a personal attack on you, so please don't take it that way.

It is my hope that we can all gain some knowledge and experience from the Shroomery. We all need to get along as best as we can. Stick around, relax, and enjoy all this community has to offer.  :smile:


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Offlinekristen
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Re: Oven Sterilization Method Success [Re: Shrum821]
    #5976652 - 08/18/06 06:04 PM (17 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

Shrum821 said:
He is just happy that he tried an experiment and it worked, and he wanted to share, give him a break, those jars look nice to me.





The jars finishing were just a by-product of a flawed beginning logic experiment. Have someone else try this and I guarantee they will have contamination. We're all about experimentation, but when the premise you start with isn't correct, the results cannot be verified or used. Good luck if you try it, but there are more proven methods.


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Offlinetommythehort
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Re: Oven Sterilization Method Success [Re: Terillius]
    #5976661 - 08/18/06 06:07 PM (17 years, 5 months ago)

Hey man way to go, great contribution I will definitely test it out!


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OfflineTerillius
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Re: Oven Sterilization Method Success [Re: Wronguy]
    #5976763 - 08/18/06 06:58 PM (17 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

Wronguy said:
Terillius, take a step back here for a moment and chill out.

I would hate to lose another member of this community, but if you can't learn to take constructive criticism you may wish to seek solace elsewhere. Again, I DO NOT want to lose another member here This is not a personal attack on you, so please don't take it that way.




Why are you talking? This has nothing to do with my experiment.


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