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Mushrooms, Mycology and Psychedelics > Mushroom Cultivation
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Ask Convoluted Questions, Get Long-Winded Answers That May or May Not Devolve Into Extended Debates * 15
    #29301685 -

Been meaning to do this for a while.

The title says it all.

Rules for this thread: none.


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Edited by B Traven (08/02/25 08:04 AM)

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Re: Ask Convoluted Questions, Get Long-Winded Answers That May or May Not Devolve Into Extended Debates [Re: B Traven] * 2
    #29301687 -

I'm usually quite good at this but I blew my load asking about oats last night. I'll be back here at some point today I'm sure. Good call traven :lol:


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Where to start?

Are your plates clean?


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Re: Ask Convoluted Questions, Get Long-Winded Answers That May or May Not Devolve Into Extended Debates [Re: B Traven] * 3
    #29301688 -

I am still waiting for nektar to explain how a dikaryon that hasn't underwent meiosis is a F1 (f0 theory is rising)


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∴Genetics Info∴Ps. ovoideocystidiata and Native Americans∴

∴The Official Woodlovers Thread∴Outdoor Mushroom Cultivation∴

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Re: Ask Convoluted Questions, Get Long-Winded Answers That May or May Not Devolve Into Extended Debates [Re: catnip40] * 3
    #29301705 -

Oh god.

Okay, how many strains* are in a clone?  Is it an isolate?

The interwebs and my fungi biology book suggest isolate.  But I thought a single mushroom can contain multiple strains, so now I'm confused.

*As in mated dikaryons, not like PE and B+


--------------------
And if I only could
I'd make a deal with God
And I'd get him to swap our places
I'd be running up that road
Be running up that hill
With no problems

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Re: Ask Convoluted Questions, Get Long-Winded Answers That May or May Not Devolve Into Extended Debates [Re: tree frog] * 1
    #29301714 -

It's mitochondrial mosaicism


--------------------

∴Genetics Info∴Ps. ovoideocystidiata and Native Americans∴

∴The Official Woodlovers Thread∴Outdoor Mushroom Cultivation∴

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Re: Ask Convoluted Questions, Get Long-Winded Answers That May or May Not Devolve Into Extended Debates [Re: catnip40] * 2
    #29301724 -

catnip40 said:
I am still waiting for nektar to explain how a dikaryon that hasn't underwent meiosis is a F1 (f0 theory is rising)


I don't think macro sexual classifications that work well for plants and dogs play well with fungi tbh.

Maybe we need decimals to describe prolonged plasmagomy?  :shrug:


--------------------
And if I only could
I'd make a deal with God
And I'd get him to swap our places
I'd be running up that road
Be running up that hill
With no problems

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Re: Ask Convoluted Questions, Get Long-Winded Answers That May or May Not Devolve Into Extended Debates [Re: tree frog] * 2
    #29301733 -

tree frog said:
I don't think macro sexual classifications that work well for plants and dogs play well with fungi tbh.



Great point that really bears repeating...repeatedly.

I really don't know enough about any of this stuff, but I'm just skeptical of our ability to determine what's actually goong on at that level in our horticultural (edit: switching to the more correct term of mycocultural) grows. I, for one, don't have a stereoscope/microscope. But even if I did, I wouldn't have the time and analytical capacity to consistently look at every single part of every single plate and track what was going on over time.

I'm sure we are mis-using terms from microbiology and mycology, but that doesn't mean there's anyone out there doing the sort of cultivation we're doing who's keeping up with all of it. I think there's a fundamental divide between taxonomists and pure researchers and mycoculturalists. The mycocultural side may not be terribly scientific, but it still represents a massive new gene pool that's gonna shift and do weird stuff that even the most knowledgeable mycologists in the world would have to study in order to make any sense of. And, frankly, I don't think they're gonna.


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Edited by B Traven (08/02/25 10:14 AM)

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Re: Ask Convoluted Questions, Get Long-Winded Answers That May or May Not Devolve Into Extended Debates [Re: B Traven] * 2
    #29301737 -

Ok, ok, I know I said no rules, but I did just think of a couple "suggestions:"

1. Try to vomit out all relevant thoughts on a topic/question in any given post, in the interest of keeping things long-winded.

2. Try to trim quotes down to the bare minimum, to keep things relatively readable despite being long-winded.


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Edited by B Traven (08/02/25 08:53 AM)

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Re: Ask Convoluted Questions, Get Long-Winded Answers That May or May Not Devolve Into Extended Debates [Re: B Traven] * 4
    #29301748 -

What's the hardest thing to grow for my first grow because I sure as hell aren't going to do something that everyone else has done because that's too boring also I don't read, so it's better that you go ahead and make a video to show me, but if you talk too much, I'll just turn it off.  Also, I'm gonna buy a do-it-for-me kit because I don't want the hassle of investing in anything or read instructions.

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Re: Ask Convoluted Questions, Get Long-Winded Answers That May or May Not Devolve Into Extended Debates [Re: Freckle] * 4
    #29301806 -

Well, it'll take me a while to get my YouTube account set up, but the key thjng to keep in mind is that anything too complicated is actually part of a vast conspiracy to gate-keep all psilocybe cultivation while simultaneously harshing as many peoples' mellows as possible. So you're right to try to avoid that.

All-in-one kits are a great starting point, but you want to make sure to pick reputable and trustworthy vendors. The first thing to watch out for is whether they have enough psychedelic flash animations on their website. Another big red flag is any vendor of anything that doesn't have an instagram account with some attractive models demonstrating to you in a short sponsored video post how easy it all can be. Time-lapse photography of a "sick grow" with that particular kit is especially important. But again, keep it simple. The best thing to do is just google a bunch of stuff and hang out on Reddit a little bit without tweaking your phone's privacy settings. Then the algorithm should really sort all that out for you.

Now, as for what's hardest to grow, there are two approaches here. One would be to grow whatever varieties or species you like, but insist on squirting spores into grain in a glovebox made from old cardboard and dishwashing gloves. The other is to get just enough posts on here to go to the Marketplace and seek out the craziest exotic species you can, come back and ask for lots of advice without clarifying what it is you're growing, then slag off the person who sent you a free print when it all goes sideways. It is also technically possible to combine both approaches.


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Edited by B Traven (08/02/25 10:06 AM)

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Re: Ask Convoluted Questions, Get Long-Winded Answers That May or May Not Devolve Into Extended Debates [Re: B Traven] * 2
    #29301821 -

When that doesn't work, do I complain I got ripped off or ghost the place?

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Re: Ask Convoluted Questions, Get Long-Winded Answers That May or May Not Devolve Into Extended Debates [Re: Freckle] * 1
    #29301830 -

Preferably both.

My suggestion would be to start with pans.  I'm to lazy to link videos but chlorocystis is a pita.  And there's some good grows of it on YouTube by the Pandalorian.

He uses a tent, so if you don't want to invest in a tent, look at pheno's dreamer tubs.  He even has a video showing how to build them.

Jake Oncid also has a lot of great pan videos you can crib from.  He hasn't grown chlorocystis but I'm sure he could.

It's not like impossible hard.  But it's pretty hard.  Bisporus is another good one to start with if you want something to test your patience.  It looks mold on plates!  And takes it's sweet time to pin.

And, if you want some small success while you figure those out, you can grab a well domesticated pan cyan or pan cross, and at least get some fruits in the meantime.

For bonus points, live in Alaska or somewhere else cold.


--------------------
And if I only could
I'd make a deal with God
And I'd get him to swap our places
I'd be running up that road
Be running up that hill
With no problems

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Re: Ask Convoluted Questions, Get Long-Winded Answers That May or May Not Devolve Into Extended Debates [Re: tree frog] * 3
    #29301936 -

Does the greatful dead suck or fuck?


--------------------
"Remember, kids, the difference between science and screwing around is writing it down" -adam savage
Flowchart for Recommended plan of action.
Learn the tried and true way to grow mushrooms
Use the Damn search engine
After you know what you're doing, take a break 
Pick a book, Make some chips!
Josex said:Don't take the site seriously bro, ain't worth it.
 

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Re: Ask Convoluted Questions, Get Long-Winded Answers That May or May Not Devolve Into Extended Debates [Re: tryptkaloids] * 1
    #29302061 -

Sugar Magnolia, Friend of the Devil and Truckin are all great songs. Enjoy good music. Don't starfuck.


--------------------
It takes guts to be
gentle and kind

Another way to live

Your ego is your nemesis.
Seek the truth tirelessly,
Even at the cost of your own sanity.
-fiddle_head

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Re: Ask Convoluted Questions, Get Long-Winded Answers That May or May Not Devolve Into Extended Debates [Re: LadysKnight] * 4
    #29306261 -

Is it possible to create a cube which contained very minimal, ideally no alkaloids. and if so, how would one go about doing so?


--------------------





Pasteurizing Straw with Hydrated Lime
Swiss Cheese Fruiting Chamber

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Re: Ask Convoluted Questions, Get Long-Winded Answers That May or May Not Devolve Into Extended Debates [Re: LadysKnight] * 2
    #29306271 -

tryptkaloids said:
Does the greatful dead suck or fuck?


LadysKnight said:
Sugar Magnolia, Friend of the Devil and Truckin are all great songs. Enjoy good music. Don't starfuck.



I feel like this is 🪤 bait. Laid especially for me. 🤔🤣


--------------------
Chock full o' nuts. ☕

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Re: Ask Convoluted Questions, Get Long-Winded Answers That May or May Not Devolve Into Extended Debates [Re: tryptkaloids] * 4
    #29306283 -

tryptkaloids said:
Does the greatful dead suck or fuck?


Well, first of all, The Grateful Dead doesn't do anything in the present tense, and hasn't since '95. While their studio recordings are, in my view, worthwhile, they're essentially music-business-mandated side projects to what was the main event. The Dead were always a live/touring band, and, what's more, their open-ended format, enormous repertoire of both original songs and covers, and ever-rotating setlists, along with a subculture and psychedlic scene associated with their performances, encouraged many people to follow them.

Playing incredibly long and unrehearsed shows night after night, constantly on the road with a large group of musicians and even larger entourage, and navigating everything from Psychedelic experiences to getting raided by the police to getting involved in harder drugs, led to a lot of unpredictability. This was also one of the things that led people to try to catch multiple tour dates, even if they couldn't drop everything and go on Dead tour.

So, again, they do nothing today, and haven't for the past 30 years. Any current evaluations would be based on old live recordings, which necessarily only capture a small piece of both the sound and the overall experience. And that is essentially something that you'd have to ask each individual audience member about. Most of the haters I remember from the era when The Dead were active never saw them live- they just didn't like the fans, the scene, and/or the drugs associated with them. Perhaps a select few just knew that they didn't like that style of music.

So, my personal view based on my experiences:

First of all, they undeniably fucked on a basic performance level. We're talking about what amounted to a Psychedelic bluegrass/country/folk band playing giant stadiums, and somehow pulling off good sound night after night. They didn't rely on cheap gimmicks or just EXTRA LOUD noise the way that the Stones or The Who did. They just got up, played their asses off, took an intermission, then played their asses off some more. Improvising all the while. That's hard to do well in a hippie drum circle, much less an arena show.

Now, at the same time, some nights were good, some nights were legendary, and some nights were "off." I definitely feel like I experienced all three. But then I also have to factor in my personal experiences and mindset as well, not to mention the vibes in the venue, etc.

So, in summary, I ask the rhetorical question: does an acid trip suck or fuck? Because, to me, that's a pretty apt analogy to what a Dead show was like for me on any given night, even if I was stone cold sober.

As for their contributions to Psychedelic culture, well, there's no room for debate. They fucked.


--------------------

Edited by B Traven (08/06/25 09:47 PM)

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Re: Ask Convoluted Questions, Get Long-Winded Answers That May or May Not Devolve Into Extended Debates [Re: Agar Wedge] * 2
    #29306293 -

Agar Wedge said:
Is it possible to create a cube which contained very minimal, ideally no alkaloids. and if so, how would one go about doing so?


I have no idea, really.

But I'd imagine that one could get pretty far with a breeding program that simply aimed to select for the weakest specimens, and then cross them, and then repeat...

But perhaps it's harder than selecting for potency, because in that case it feels to me like it's more about "filling gaps," so to speak. And perhaps "expanding gaps" is ultimately a much harder project, when talking about something so ubiquitous and almost fundamental to the clade. Albino fruits are one thing, all but eliminating alkaloids another.

Any potential answer I'd muster here would be necessarily based on nothing in particular, but I'm also finding it difficult to be adequately long-winded on this matter. So I'll simply add another question to the pile: would contemplating strategies for doing this be aided by the consumption of potent psilocybes, and what sort of paradox might that suggest?


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Edited by B Traven (08/07/25 08:59 PM)

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Re: Ask Convoluted Questions, Get Long-Winded Answers That May or May Not Devolve Into Extended Debates [Re: B Traven] * 1
    #29307289 -

I was thinking similarly, though I understand the uncertainty. Appreciate the space to ask this kind of absurd question. Personally I would love to be able to use a bunch of cubes in cooking and not trip my balls off, as the taste/texture is enjoyable imo:shroomin: though I'd imagine the path to creating something like this would be incredibly difficult and time consuming, maybe not even possible.

To answer your question, perhaps by the right person it could. Somebody with an in depth understanding in this arena. Like getting into the DNA and making alterations, or some kind of additive that decreased potency in the resulting harvest. I have no doubts in the ability of mushrooms to change ones direction in thinking, towards solutions not commonly considered. Though I feel without some kind of foundation, the individual attempting such a thing may make very little if any progress.

Whether or not we could directly correlate the solution with the consumption of said mushrooms. Or whether the person's existing knowledge and ability simply produced a viable outcome, is the another difficulty.

The paradox I see being the lack of purpose as you can still eat them and enjoy the intended benefit and taste. Therefore the solution already is. On the other hand, the alkaloids are the mushrooms self defense mechanism and could be considered a "poison" in this regard. Meaning the solution may lie in trying to make this otherwise " hardly edible fungus" into food that is enjoyable in other ways. But do we fix what is not broken, other much more edible species are easily and readily cultivated.

some more questions to consider:

Would an alkaloid reduced/free strain help result in a more widely accepted perspective on psychedelics and the surrounding culture? Maybe even provide acceptance and legal protection too the average shroomerite? Could such a creation prove to be a part of the legalization of an otherwise completely illegal species to cultivate?


--------------------





Pasteurizing Straw with Hydrated Lime
Swiss Cheese Fruiting Chamber

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Re: Ask Convoluted Questions, Get Long-Winded Answers That May or May Not Devolve Into Extended Debates [Re: Agar Wedge] * 4
    #29307349 -

I wonder how much the texture of cubes would change after a couple boils.

The idea that psilocybin is a defense mechanism is a poorly backed up one in my opinion.
we will be debating its purpose and use for the mushroom forever.


--------------------
"Remember, kids, the difference between science and screwing around is writing it down" -adam savage
Flowchart for Recommended plan of action.
Learn the tried and true way to grow mushrooms
Use the Damn search engine
After you know what you're doing, take a break 
Pick a book, Make some chips!
Josex said:Don't take the site seriously bro, ain't worth it.
 

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Mushrooms, Mycology and Psychedelics > Mushroom Cultivation
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