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Do not do well on MEA agar unless peptone is added.  Take about 10 days to germinate.

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They do perfectly fine on 0.5 to 1% DLME agar, no need for peptone, something else is going on here if spores took 10 days to germinate

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Mix coir and manure thoroughly together, 66%/33% Ps. or 50%/50% Pans.  The main thing is to keep the mix from getting soggy so it stays well aerated.

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Pseudo-casing
The casing layer serves 4 purposes:
1.) To protect the colonized substrate from drying out.
2.) To provide a humid microclimate for primordia formation and development.
3.) To provide a water reservoir for the maturing mushrooms.
4.) To support the growth of fructification enhancing microorganisms.
(TMC, p 128 -129)

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PuffM4gicDr4gon said:

You forgot to mention seeing a single pin, and getting your hopes up before having them crushed by the mean green.

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RIP first Pan Cambo grow.

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Pardon, I misspoke:  10 days to colonize.  Fixed.

On agar, I can only go by what I've read here and in sci lit.  I have pan and ps spores coming. I see that others do fine with pans on regular MEA, but personally I see the logic of peptone for pans so will try that.  Will try ps both ways. (Huautla, Golden Teacher)

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Yes,I took a shortcut there, will fix.  Straight manure is a hazard AFAIC.  Composted only.

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Dr. Smoke said:

Indeed, but to pseudo-case immediately after spawning makes alot of sense to me.  a) coir has virtually no nutrients so don't worry about opening the tub; b) pseudo- makes a nice humid micro-climate for the sub; and c) lets you freely hand-spray while primordials and pins are setting underneath on the sub.  When they break through, then fog fog fog.

This is one reason I believe Beef's tub tek is advanced. (altho he is a little rough on the myc, hehe)

(Darnit, this forum software doesn't let me get away with fixing my typos for oe second, unnoticed)

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Dr. Smoke said:

Ja I've read tree frog's writeups thoroughly as well as most TC's.  I'm trying to synthesize all of these into my system with my best estimation to try.  Some things may work, some things may not. 

Now see;  this is why I originally posted my tek in tree frog's thread (with citations) and was reluctant to put it here, but she recommended.  I voluntarily withdraw it.

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Dkeppel and Mojave are both fantastic growers.  They're not trying to tear you down fam, just to let you know what works, what doesn't, and what might work but be extra or unnecessary work.  Unfortunately org also has a lot of shitposters, and that can make it harder for the helpful folks message to get through if someone feels attacked for their ideas.  So I don't blame you for feeling like you want to withdraw your ideas.  But that's not Mojave and Dkeppel.  They're genuinely helpful and two growers I highly respect.  And two people I consider friends.

I top dress with coir sometimes too, for the extra water, or if I'm trying to stretch my substrate if I'm running low for example.

I just wanted you to know that you'll get better pinsets if you use a true casing, but it looks like you're planning to do both, so that's already covered

Planning everything out certainly isn't a bad idea in the sense that you'll have the materials you need further down the road.  But most plans don't work out and while you know I certainly love and appreciate experimentation, sticking closely to someone else's recipe the first few grows can help reduce potential frustrations and pitfalls.

Also, I don't know everything. So that was one reason I wanted you to post here was so that we could have a larger knowledge base.  And also just to keep that thread on task.

And, I apologize for only skimming your post earlier in the shitty thread.  That was partially due to me being busy, and I was busy yesterday so I didn't get to it then either.

I will take a closer look at it this morning and offer my thoughts.

Dr. Smoke said:

PLATES
- The first goal is to get clean MS genetics to grain as soon as possible.

- Look for the fastest growing sections.  You do not want the thickest growth as often times the thick growths overlay later on -- fast whispy growth is what you want.

- Take first transfers to new agar.  Then maybe again.  Then to grain.

- Inoculate grain spawn with the dish themselves, cutting into squares with a flamed scalpel.

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GRAIN - cracked corn - derived from tree frog's science research

- Cold soak cracked corn for 24 hours in a bucket with distilled water then pour that bucket into a strainer bucket and let it strain over night and some of the next day.  Occasionally stir the grain around until all the surface moisture is the same (pretty much dry).

- Load PC and sterilize.  Cover the (loose lid) grain jars with foil and PC for 2 hours.

- 2-3 days after inoculation when the myc is moving off of the agar wedges, give the jar a single shake.  Then slowly roll the grains around for about 1 minute.

- When the jar has colonized 1/3 to 1/2 of the way, repeat the shake and roll and then let the jars fully colonize from there.

- Once fully colonized the growth may look very fine and whispy or it might be a little thicker.  Both are good but you don't want marshmallow looking myc.  It will bruise in the jar. (don't mistake it for contamination)

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BULK PREP AND CASING - Beefs Beefy Tub Tek
https://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/28558116/fpart/1/vc/1

- Coir for reptile bedding is best.  Gardening coir is lower quality.

- Moisten and pasteurize the compost in quart jars, no lid.  Get a 10" pot.  Put in water up to the substrate.  Heat on Medium and at 150F, turn it down to 1/4.  Go for 3 hours.  Check regularly to ensure temp is at 155F.

- Weigh the brick in grams and multiply that figure by 4.25 for weight of water in grams to be added to coir.

- Put big pot on scale and tare.  Put distilled water into the pot, to weight.

-  Boil water. Pour water into bucket with brick. Put lid on. Do NOT shake it.  Use when cool. (after shaking it a bit)  Scoop a quart out of each bucket, and set aside for pseudo-casing.

- Mix coir and manure thoroughly together, 66%/33% Ps. or 50%/50% Pans.  The main thing is to keep the mix from getting soggy so it stays well aerated.

- Divide into two buckets, by weight.

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SPAWNING

- Break up the spawn and put one quart into each bucket.  Break up any remaining clumps.  Put lids on, shakea shakea shakea.

- Pour each bucket into a tub.  Thicker sub gives more flushes.

- Use a rubber tile float to level and compress the substrate. Don't pack with all your might, just be -firm- and pay special attention to the edges. I find that if I pack the edges well, I don't get side pins at all and I don't need a liner.

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- Unmodified tubs:  Put the lid on:  Let the substrate colonize by cutting Fresh Air Exchange to almost zero.

- Just set it and forget it until its time to monitor surface conditions.  No, opening your tub won't contaminate it.

- Let the sub colonize for ~10 days (at about 72°F). Spray every day.  Healthy pan substrate will smell similar to almonds and very earthy.  It should smell clean in a very obvious way.

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FRUITING
- Successful fruiting of pan cyans requires the understanding of these factors: temperature, fresh air exchange (FAE), humidity, evaporation and surface conditions.

- Pan cyans like temps in the 76-80°F range. If I could lock in a temp perfectly, I would have it exactly 77°F at all times.

- Pan cyans thrive in a high humidity environment. However, evaporation is a major pinning trigger.  And evaporation cannot occur efficiently if your tub is always near 100% relative humidity (RH).  I just open up my tub 3-6 times per day and blow the tub out with the inline fan from my fogger.

- Unmodified tubs:  Put the lid on cockeyed to allow Fresh Air, but keep humid.  Many times "why am I not getting pins?" is answered by cycling dryer air into the tent more frequently.  I will typically hand-water the casing with a syringe once per day.  When adding distilled water, you just want the casing to glisten - where you can see it holding water - and not just damp.

- Once pins have arrived it's important to keep things a little more wet.  I will usually crank the humidity a bit and be more aggressive with hand-watering the casing layer.  I use a 60ml syringe for this and only use distilled water.

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Evaporation is important because Pans use a lot of oxygen and like very high humidity at the substrate surface.  100% humidity is saturation, that means no air (oxygen).  When this happens, the tray will stall, just like in a cryovial when we cover a wedge with water for storage.

As we introduce oxygen, we're also removing co2, which makes the environment less hospitable to competition and naturally causes evaporation and a humidity drop, especially at higher temperature ranges.  So, we'll need to replace the lost water, both in the casing if needed, and in the air.  Either by misting or using a fogger.

In other words, evaporation isn't the thing itself (oxygen, high temperatures, and high humidity).  Though it's a good indication that the thing itself is dialed in.  Correlation vs. causation.

Storage looks good, so I'll remove that section.  And the only thing I can suggest on the poke cloning is to go to brf pucks rather than plates, as it will cut way down on bacterial contamination.  You can do very small pucks on plates even (or in little pp5 slime cups is how I do it).

Anyway fam, I'm going to give you some encouragement on your list.  You have read and thought things through, and you're asking for feedback on it.  Those are positive things.

That said, it will be easier to take things one step at a time.  And ask for feedback along the way, which is why I wanted to point you to this thread.

No plan survives contact with the enemy and all of that (not that pans are our enemies, but bacteria and mold certainly are).

So, I would encourage you to hold your plan loosely.  And as you go along, continue to post in this thread if you have questions, want us to look at your plates or jars, or whatever.  And that will also help you get better feedback, as when a post is very long most of us tend to skim, especially as we've all been wired now for the constant dopamine drip from our electronics.

And, there are a lot of very helpful folks who frequent this thread.  Even the shitposters tend to be helpful when they're not firing one off to keep themselves entertained.  So, don't let the signal-to-noise ratio kill the vibe fam.

It's just the shroomery, and sometimes it feels a bit hostile.  But you have done your homework which is what is encouraged.  Just take it a step at a time now that you have an idea of what direction you need to go.  And we'll be here to help you along the way

Puduwoke said:

Does anyone have any information about Pan chlorocystis?

Stagger was kind enough to do a giveaway

I never even heard about them. Excited to grow them though. This year is all about exotics

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It's more similar to bisporus as far as liking it wet and not being prone to aborts if you directly mist the caps.  And grows in the Everglades in grass where there's a lot of limestone in the soil (so might prefer a tad higher pH than usual).

I haven't gotten the best runs out of it.  But here's a few photos.

Mature fruits about ready to drop spores.



Immature fruits without grass.



Too late for spore prints.



Too early for spore prints.



Just right.



The spores you have should be an f5 or f6.  This was the original collection.

https://www.inaturalist.org/observations/193561740

Edit:  Oh, and it's prone to forming strands on plates.  Very spidery myc!