PuffM4gicDr4gon said:

I put the lid for my tray on inside the JCM and pins seemed to develop overnight. Unfortunately, I am seeing the early signs of trich as well. Now it's a race

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Dala's suggestion was on point. I was wondering if you keep your manure in a barrel or compost bin like i do in my yard. Never had any problems with water/rain flooding my bin. I do turn the whole pile once a week to keep things going. Once the pile is ready for use, i will fill a pail bucket 2 inches below the brim and snap on the lid as in sealed. I keep this bucket next to my rainboots in the genkan (entryway) of my house.

Whenever I get the sun dried manure (they keep mountain-sized piles on a tarp outside) from my local racing horse stable, all i have to do is mix it with my lawn cuttings, wheat and rice straw and whatever else is available at the time. Once you get into composting, it becomes another hobby itsel, whole new level of self sufficiency and cheap AF ($3~4 bucks per 20kg sacs) and everything else is free, mostly giveaways from fellow neighbor farmers.

Normally, i'd be importing my coir from Sri Lanka around $50 shipping included. Classic bucket prep as needed but to be honest, i mostly grow using sterilized manure based substrates. Your spawn needs to be FLAWLESS beyond doubt. Its like a empty/clean slate and only the mycelium will be allowed to colonize at will, no competition threat by other bacteria/nasties. If i have a jar of questionable spawn and i feel like sending anyway, that's what prepped coir is for... never manure. It gets segregated on its own container and fruiting chamber, like a little county jail cell lol.

There is another way of properly aged manure/straw mixed with little amounts of grain and then sterilize. It would require clean/flawless LC for inoculation but that might involve using a syringe and other steps i'm simply not used to. I don't work with syringes at all.

That being said, i hope you give sterilized pan substrate a chance (you'll need a 9.84 x 19.69 inches (250 x 500 mm) standard size grow bag with 0.002 (0.06 mm) thickness minimum).



ps,
Bad shadowing when taking pictures of my pot, there are 4 quarts of water that nearly reaches the tall trivet i use. 2hrs @ 18psi (for pan substrate) works like magic in my own experience (results may vary according to the person's own PC specs among other variables)

PuffM4gicDr4gon said:

I store my manure similar to you

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PuffM4gicDr4gon said:

I store my manure similar to you except it's black cow brand composted manure and it's in a tote. It just isn't dry. I'll post some pictures once I dig it out and get to work.

I'm 99% sure that my agar is flawless. I cant take pictures of agar to save my life, but a couple dozen pages back The Atlantean and Baba (I think) showed me some pictures of what theirs looks like and 100% of my RDU and BVI cultures looks the same. Thin, whispy, doesn't grow circular but does have organized strands. It's because of that I'm leaning towards uncolonized chunky manure being my problem.

Just for experimentation sake, I think I might try a hybrid of a couple methods to see what happens. If it doesn't work out, I'll return to a more standard method, but in my head it should meet pan nutrient requirements and solve my chunky problem.

I'm going to mix my manure with water so I can run it through a sieve, use that to hydrate some coir and mix in the additives TF uses in her AIO jars (Micronutrients, Calcium Carbonate, Gypsum). I'm going to PC that in a bag and set it aside for some BVI that I just put to Rye this afternoon.

I'm also going to dry some out with verm for future tries, but I'd like to build a screen so I can be sure it's only powder and no chunks. I'll build that in a few weeks.

If I'm remembering right, Astra, you spawn your sterilized substrate/colonized grains in open air. Is that correct?

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Yes, that's store bought black kow brand or something like that. Some people use it straight out of the bag hoping to get a single flush at least but most pasteurize if i remember correctly. I find nothing wrong with store bought compost or other substrate additives but as i mentioned in my previous post, i was taught old school by someone that was 8 years ahead of me growing pans and one of our last grows together happened to be pan cambos, unforgettable...anyway i prefer to do most of my stuff homemade so i can have first hand quality control without having to guess how much of which ingredients were added by ratio and so on. By making my own composted manure, peace of mind comes naturally. Now as Dala suggested, you can add verm and see if you can achieve fluffy and airy just like pan mycelium likes it.

As for Micronutrients, AIO jars and experimentation, you might want to contact that person directly as we're no longer keeping communication, Sorry. I've used manure less coir before just for kicks and grew some inside a bucket outdoors but the yield was trash tbh.

To answer your last query, yes i spawn all my trays in open air, no fh/ffu or anything. Never needed one.

Mr Piggy said:

PuffM4gicDr4gon said:

I store my manure similar to you

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Just make sure to ship high in transit.

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PuffM4gicDr4gon said:

Thanks Astra!

Pans are a learning experience for me, so I'm OK with some failure or lackluster flushes. It's all a process and I'm sure I'll get it figured out eventually.

I do live near farms and I see aged horse manure on FB marketplace from time to time, but our winters average -15c with dips down to -40c so I will have to wait until summer before I can get some. It's all frozen to the ground for now. Once I do, I'll definitely give your method a try.

I'm sorry to hear about the conflict between you and that person. I hope you're doing OK.

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No problem, i love keeping my work flow as simple as possible. Fundamentally speaking, the less unnecessary additives or radical changes, the less vectors for contamination or chances for failure. You're welcome to experiment and try different methods but with that comes trial and error, time, money and resources that should always be taken into consideration. As long as you keep several projects going, you won't be left without something to do. Also thanks, but this isn't my method, it was Blue's, i'm just mega stubborn when it comes to LC, i prefer agar... plus fully colonized plates taste like heaven with cream cheese

fahtster said:

What do you pan experts do to tame an overlaying culture?  I have this clone that seems like it wants to overlay every time I try to grow it no matter what sub I use.  It does eventually does pin… these trays overlaid badly so I flipped them and cased the bottoms and they did pin after two casings..


Those were cased on day 5 (the first time) and then these new trays seem like they’re also overlaying..


But not as badly and not as quickly but they were cased on day 6.  Could it be that I’m just casing them too soon.  They’re 100%+ when I case em but I’m thinking maybe I should wait til like day 8 or 9 before putting them into fruiting.. idk.  What y’all think?

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I wouldn't call myself an 'expert' but more like old fashion experience dealing with these guys. I keep it simple and pan clones were never my cup of tea. I've tried them but the yields were dogshit with unpredictable behavior like massive stroma instead of fruits, pinning super late, sometimes not pinning at all..lol
Cubes do great with clones, pans not so much imho. MS ftw.

ps,
clone vs ms

astra said:

fahtster said:

What do you pan experts do to tame an overlaying culture?  I have this clone that seems like it wants to overlay every time I try to grow it no matter what sub I use.  It does eventually does pin… these trays overlaid badly so I flipped them and cased the bottoms and they did pin after two casings..


Those were cased on day 5 (the first time) and then these new trays seem like they’re also overlaying..


But not as badly and not as quickly but they were cased on day 6.  Could it be that I’m just casing them too soon.  They’re 100%+ when I case em but I’m thinking maybe I should wait til like day 8 or 9 before putting them into fruiting.. idk.  What y’all think?

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I wouldn't call myself an 'expert' but more like old fashion experience dealing with these guys. I keep it simple and pan clones were never my cup of tea. I've tried them but the yields were dogshit with unpredictable behavior like massive stroma instead of fruits, pinning super late, sometimes not pinning at all..lol
Cubes do great with clones, pans not so much imho. MS ftw.

ps,
clone vs ms

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MalluShroomer said:

Could a thick casing layer be an issue for pans? Mine is at most 6mm thick. Or could pH be a factor? My casing has a pH of around 9 max.

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