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OfflineSquattingMarmot
Inquiring Mind
Registered: 08/19/03
Posts: 418
Last seen: 3 years, 1 month
Scott Ritter - Facing the Enemy on the Ground
    #2880359 - 07/12/04 02:08 AM (13 years, 13 days ago)

Since I know how much Scott Ritter is loved (and hated) on this board, I figured that posting his latest article about the insurgency facing the coalition in Iraq would get things stirred up in here.

As we all know, Ritter was constantly smeared by the Bush/Cheney Regime during the run-up to war, yet everything he said has come true (no WMD's, a hostile populace, a quagmire situation with no exit plan...). I think I'll trust Scott Ritter over the Bush/Cheney Regime anyday.

http://www.alternet.org/waroniraq/19190/

Facing the Enemy on the Ground
The Iraqi resistance has been years in the making. And with the help of American involvement, the insurgency will continue to flourish and grow until no force can defeat it.

By Scott Ritter

The battle for Iraq's sovereign future is a battle for the hearts and minds of the Iraqi people. As things currently stand, it appears that victory will go to the side most in tune with the reality of the Iraqi society of today: the leaders of the anti-U.S. resistance.

Iyad Allawi's government was recently installed by the United States-led Coalition Provisional Authority (CPA) to counter a Ba'athist nationalism that ceased to exist nearly a decade ago. In the aftermath of the first Gulf War, Saddam Hussein's regime shifted toward an amalgam of Islamic fundamentalism, tribalism and nationalism that more accurately reflected the political reality of Iraq. Thanks to his meticulous planning and foresight, Saddam's lieutenants are now running the Iraqi resistance, including the Islamist groups.

Not only has the United States failed to put into place a viable government to replace the CPA in the aftermath of the so-called "transfer of sovereignty," but more importantly, it continues to misidentify the true nature of the Iraqi insurgency. As a consequence, the resistance will inevitably continue to flourish and grow until no force can defeat it, Iraqi or American.

Ba'athism is Dead, Long Live Saddam

In August 1995, Saddam Hussein's son-in-law, Hussein Kamal, defected to Jordan. In the lead up to the war, much of the attention paid to this event has centered on Kamal's various debriefings with the CIA, British Intelligence, and UN weapons inspectors concerning Iraq's weapons of mass destruction. Fourteen months into the U.S. occupation of Iraq, Hussein Kamal's testimony that Iraq's weapons of mass destruction had been destroyed in the summer of 1991 has taken on new relevance, given the fact that to date no WMD have been found.

But more important than the WMD information (which has become abundantly clear through other sources) is Kamal's self-described reason for defecting: Saddam Hussein's order that all senior Ba'ath Party officials undergo mandatory Koranic studies. A staunch Ba'athist like Hussein Kamal, schooled in the doctrine of secular Arab nationalism, viewed the command as tantamount to heresy. But for Saddam Hussein, this radical shift in strategy was necessary to his survival given the new realities of post-Gulf War Iraq.

Confronted with the postwar turmoil created by military defeat and economic devastation (prolonged by UN-imposed sanctions), Saddam had to re-engineer his domestic constituency to maintain his power. The traditional Ba'athist ideology, based on Iraq-centric Arab nationalism, was no longer the driving force it had been a decade prior. Creating a new power base required bringing into the fold not only the Shi'ite majority ? which had revolted against him in the spring of 1991 ? but also accommodating the growing religious fundamentalism of traditional allies such as key Sunni tribes in western Iraq.

The most visible symbol of Saddam's decision to embrace Islam was his order to add the words "God is Great" to the Iraqi flag. He also simultaneously embraced traditional Iraqi tribal culture, de-emphasizing the importance of the Ba'ath Party in 1996 by noting that it was but "one of the tribes of Iraq" ? a move that erased decades of Ba'athist anti-tribal policies.

Getting It Wrong, Again

The transformation of the political dynamics inside Iraq, however, has gone largely unnoticed in the West. It certainly seems to have escaped the attention of the Bush Administration. And the recent "transfer of sovereignty" from the U.S.-led Coalition Provisional Authority (CPA) to the new Iraqi government of Prime Minister Iyad Allawi reflects this lack of understanding.

For many in the Bush Administration, the greatest and indisputable success of the invasion of Iraq was ridding the world of a dangerous ideology, Ba'athism. Indeed, one of the first directives issued by Paul Bremer, the former head of the CPA, was to pass a "de-Ba'athification" law, effectively blacklisting all former members of that party from meaningful involvement in the day-to-day affairs of post-Saddam Iraq. The law underscored the mindset of those in charge of Iraq: Ba'athist holdouts loyal to Saddam were the primary threat to the U.S.-led occupation.

Senior Bush Administration officials recognized their mistake ? though a little too late. In April 2004, Bremer rescinded his "de-Ba'thification" order. The architect of the U.S. invasion of Iraq, Deputy Defense Secretary Paul Wolfowitz, recently told members of Congress that the Pentagon had underestimated its enemy in Iraq. The Pentagon today speaks of a "marriage of convenience" between Islamic fundamentalists and former members of Saddam's Ba'athist regime, even speculating that the Islamists are taking over Ba'athist cells weakened by American anti-insurgency efforts.

Once again, the Pentagon has it wrong. U.S. policy in Iraq is still unable or unwilling to face the reality of the enemy on the ground.

The Iraqi resistance is no emerging "marriage of convenience," but rather a product of planning years in the making. Rather than being absorbed by a larger Islamist movement, Saddam's former lieutenants are calling the shots in Iraq, having co-opted the Islamic fundamentalists years ago, with or without their knowledge.

One look at the list of the 55 "most wanted" members of the Saddam regime who remain at large reveals the probable chain of command of the Iraqi resistance today. It also underscores the success of Saddam's strategic decision nearly a decade past to disassociate himself from Ba'athist ideology.

All the Tyrant's Men

Keep in mind that there was never a formal surrender ceremony after the U.S. took control of Baghdad. The security services of Saddam's Iraq were never disbanded; they simply melted away into the population, to be called back into service when and where they were needed.

The so-called Islamic resistance is led by none other than former Vice President Izzat Ibrahim al-Duri, an ardent Iraqi nationalist, a Sunni Arab and a practicing member of the Sufi brotherhood, a society of Islamic mystics. His deputy is Rafi Tilfah, who headed the Directorate of General Security (DGS), an organization that had thoroughly penetrated Iraqi society with collaborators and informants during Saddam's regime.

As a former UN weapons inspector, I have personally inspected the headquarters of the DGS in Baghdad, as well as the regional DGS Headquarters in Tikrit. The rooms were full of files concerning those who were working with or on behalf of the DGS. There is not a person, family, tribe or Islamic movement in Iraq that the DGS does not know intimately ? information that is an invaluable asset when coordinating and facilitating a popular-based resistance movement.

I also interacted with the former Director of the Special Security Organization, Hani al-Tilfah, on numerous occasions during 1997-98, when he was put in charge of riding roughshod over my inspections. He was also responsible for transferring many of his officers to Rafi's command, purging the DGS of old Ba'athist nationalists and replacing them with officers loyal to Saddam's new Islamic-Tribal vision of Iraq. Today he helps coordinate the operations of the Iraqi resistance using the very same officers.

Tahir Habbush headed the Iraqi Intelligence Service that perfected the art of improvised explosive devices and using them to carry out assassinations. In the months prior to the U.S.-led invasion, he was ordered to blend his agents back into the Iraqi population so as to avoid detection by any occupying force. The intelligence service agents were also told to infiltrate organizations actively opposed to Saddam Hussein, and thus most likely to play a leading role in any post-Saddam Iraqi government. These included both the Kurdish and Shi'ite opposition parties.

The recent anti-American attacks in Fallujah and Ramadi were carried out by well-disciplined men fighting in cohesive units, most likely drawn from the ranks of Saddam's Republican Guard. The level of sophistication should not have come as a surprise to anyone familiar with former Chief of the Republican Guard Sayf al-Rawi's role in secretly demobilizing select Guard units for this very purpose prior to the U.S. invasion. And as the former Director of Tribal Affairs for the Special Security Organization, Rokan Razuki's knowledge of Iraqi tribal realities is unmatched and his connections unrivaled. His continued access to tribal councils is a tremendous threat to any authority in charge of Iraq.

No More Lebanons

The transfer of sovereignty to the new Iraqi government of Iyad Allawi is a charade that will play itself out over the next weeks and months, with tragic consequences. Allawi's government, hand-picked by the United States from the ranks of anti-Saddam expatriates, lacks not only a constituency inside Iraq, but also legitimacy in the eyes of many ordinary Iraqi citizens.

The truth is that there never was a significant people-based opposition movement inside Iraq for the Bush Administration to call on to form a government to replace Saddam. It is why the United States has instead been forced to rely on the services of individuals tainted by their association with foreign intelligence services, or drawn from opposition parties heavily infiltrated by agents of Saddam's former security services.

Regardless of the number of troops the United States puts on the ground or how long they stay there, Allawi's government is doomed to fail. The more it fails, the more it will have to rely on the United States to prop it up. The more the U.S. props up Allawi, the more discredited he becomes in the eyes of the Iraqi people ? all of which creates yet more opportunities for the Iraqi resistance to exploit to their advantage.

The historical parallel that best underscores the current disaster-in-the-making is not the Vietnam War but rather Israel's invasion of Lebanon in 1982. Originally intended to rid Lebanon of the Palestine Liberation Organization, Israel's subsequent occupation led to the creation of Hizbollah as a viable force of political and military resistance. The Hizbollah was so effective that Israel was forced to unilaterally withdraw its forces from Lebanon in May, 2000. The 18-year occupation not only failed to defeat the PLO, but it also created an Islamic fundamentalist movement that today poses a serious threat to the security of Israel and the Middle East region.

In Iraq, history may very well produce the same result since neither the Bush Administration nor a possible Kerry Administration shows any inclination to withdraw from Iraq in the foreseeable future. And so the course of American involvement in Iraq and its inevitable consequences are clear. We will suffer a decade-long nightmare that will lead to the deaths of thousands more Americans and tens of thousands of Iraqis. We will witness the creation of a viable and dangerous anti-American movement in Iraq which will one day watch as American troops unilaterally withdraw from Iraq every bit as ignominiously as Israel did from Lebanon.

The strength of this anti-American resistance depends on how long the United States chooses to "stay the course" in Iraq. The calculus is quite simple: The sooner we bring our forces home, the weaker this movement will be. And, of course, the obverse is true: The longer we stay, the stronger and more enduring this by-product of Bush's elective war on Iraq will be.

There is no elegant solution to our Iraqi debacle. It is no longer a question of winning, but rather mitigating defeat.

Scott Ritter was a UN Weapons Inspector in Iraq from 1991-1998. He is also the author of "Frontier Justice: Weapons of Mass Destruction and the Bushwhacking of America" (Context Books, 2003).


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"In the United States anybody can be president. Thats the problem."

"The gray-haired douche bag, Barbara Bush, has a slogan: "Encourage your child to read every day." What she should be is encouraging children to question what they read every day."

- George Carlin


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InvisibleSwami
Eggshell Walker

Registered: 01/19/00
Posts: 15,413
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Re: Scott Ritter - Facing the Enemy on the Ground [Re: SquattingMarmot]
    #2880455 - 07/12/04 02:38 AM (13 years, 13 days ago)

Not only has the United States failed to put into place a viable government to replace the CPA in the aftermath of the so-called "transfer of sovereignty,"

The transfer was a sham? *gasp* :eek:


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The proof is in the pudding.


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Invisiblewhiterasta
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Re: Scott Ritter - Facing the Enemy on the Ground [Re: SquattingMarmot]
    #2881423 - 07/12/04 10:14 AM (13 years, 13 days ago)

You are implying Saddam knew of the imminent US occupation and planned accordingly? Shazzzaaamm!I wish our president was as intelligent
WR:wexican:


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To old for this place


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Invisibleafoaf
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Re: Scott Ritter - Facing the Enemy on the Ground [Re: SquattingMarmot]
    #2882499 - 07/12/04 04:11 PM (13 years, 12 days ago)

dude liek scott ritter lied and got hella payed by
saddam to make up hella lies about how 1337
the WMD weren't lol this is just more lies from
the communist saddam lover roffles bush4life.


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All I know is The Growery is a place where losers who get banned here go.


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OfflineJPZ
lost in mexico
Registered: 06/28/04
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Re: Scott Ritter - Facing the Enemy on the Ground [Re: afoaf]
    #2882834 - 07/12/04 05:53 PM (13 years, 12 days ago)

They should give you a job on Fox News

:lol:

:bow:


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I do declare, I can float in the air.

"If carrots got you drunk, rabbits would be fucked up."


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Invisiblewhiterasta
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Re: Scott Ritter - Facing the Enemy on the Ground [Re: JPZ]
    #2882863 - 07/12/04 06:02 PM (13 years, 12 days ago)

I just love Faux news :3stooges::lol:
WR:wexican:


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To old for this place


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OfflineDivided_Sky
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Registered: 11/02/03
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Re: Scott Ritter - Facing the Enemy on the Ground [Re: SquattingMarmot]
    #2882867 - 07/12/04 06:04 PM (13 years, 12 days ago)

Scott Ritter was right, but I made the correct choice in disregarding his opinion. The man changed his position 180 at about the same time he was under investigation for taking bribes from Iraq and getting arrested for pedophilia.
As of right now, his opinion is his own. He makes some interesting points, but I wonder how much of it comes from him already being mad at Bush. I think his bias makes him overly pessimistic. The viewpoint in the article is essentially the same as Noam Chomsky's: extremely skeptical and defeatist.
I think ditching Iraq is FAR MORE likely to create a Lebanon like situation than staying. Also trying undermine the authority of the governing council by labeling them 'American Puppets' is not fair to the members on the council and creates problems in the long run. Somebody has to run the country until it is safe for elections. Elections today would be anarchy. An unrealisticaly negative and skeptical attitude towards the transfer of power destablizes the current situation. Rather than bitch and complain about the only viable option for political stability in Iraq, Scott Ritter should support them. An Islamicist or Ba'athist Iraq is not an acceptable outcome. I think Ritter just wants to see the US fail even more. His plan would certainly help us along.


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OfflineJesusChrist
Son Of God
Registered: 02/19/04
Posts: 1,459
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Re: Scott Ritter - Facing the Enemy on the Ground [Re: SquattingMarmot]
    #2882903 - 07/12/04 06:18 PM (13 years, 12 days ago)

Scott Ritter has no credibility.


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Tastes just like chicken


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Invisibleafoaf
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Re: Scott Ritter - Facing the Enemy on the Ground [Re: Divided_Sky]
    #2882946 - 07/12/04 06:37 PM (13 years, 12 days ago)

bribery and pedophilia....

disinformation wins again!

I agree with the thought of sticking with it now
that we're in the game up to our necks, but I
don't believe it's fair to continue to slander this
guy just because people prefer to paint him as
a bitter pervert than someone who had it right
from day one.

http://slate.msn.com/id/2071502


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All I know is The Growery is a place where losers who get banned here go.


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OfflineJesusChrist
Son Of God
Registered: 02/19/04
Posts: 1,459
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Re: Scott Ritter - Facing the Enemy on the Ground [Re: afoaf]
    #2883049 - 07/12/04 07:28 PM (13 years, 12 days ago)

Scott Ritter has no credibility. If I was a liberal, I wouldn't want him speaking for me or making my arguments. I think we can all do better than give this man our time. A liberal quoting Scott Ritter would be much the same as a conservative quoting David Duke. It doesn't matter if he makes a cogent point on this or that, you simply debase yourself by associating with him. He is a lying pedophile scumbag.

Scott Ritter is also a quite compelling case as to why our intelligence is so bad. We have to rely on pedophiles that can be bribed. No wonder we don't know what is going on.

Scott Ritter told us all that Sadaam had not disarmed. Then he accepted $400,000 from a pro Sadaam Iraqi. Then he told us that Sadaam didn't have weapons of Mass Distruction. No conflict of interest there. You have to give it to Scott though, he has to be right at least once if he takes both sides of the issue.

What about his prediction that our Army would be defeated and we would come home with our tail between our legs before we got to Baghdad? How precient. I would be embarrased to show my face in public.

Scott Ritter also liked to solicit teenage women on the internet for sex. He was caught doing so twice. You have to wonder how many times he succeeded, and how many young women he took advantage of.

Here is an article where Ritter's attorney confirms the arrest:

http://www.worldnetdaily.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=30587

Here is Scott Ritter in his own words with Aaron Brown:

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Editor's note: The following is a transcript of former weapons inspector Scott Ritter's appearance on "CNN Newsnight with Aaron Brown" on Wednesday, Jan. 22, 2003.


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CNN's AARON BROWN: Scott Ritter has a knack for making headlines.

Last year, the former weapons inspector, who used to drive the Iraqis crazy, started driving the White House crazy by saying that there was no evidence that the Iraqis still had weapons of mass destruction and that war was a huge mistake. Then there were accusations, fiercely denied, that his old boss at the U.N. had turned the inspection program into a U.S. spying operation.

This all became a bit of a circus, with Ritter as the ringmaster. Now comes another furor, but this is a very different sort: reports that Scott Ritter was arrested in 2001 for trying to lure a teenage girl he had met on the Internet. It was a misdemeanor charge. It was ultimately dismissed and the record sealed. Some of this has leaked out this week.

Mr. Ritter joins us tonight from Albany, New York. Nice to see you, sir.

SCOTT RITTER, FORMER U.N. WEAPONS INSPECTOR: Thank you.

BROWN: All right, here we go. What happened in June of 2001?

RITTER: In June of 2001, I was arrested by the Colonie Police Department and charged with a Class B misdemeanor.

BROWN: And what was that Class B misdemeanor?

RITTER: Aaron, we're dealing with a case that has been dismissed and the record has been sealed by a judge's order. And I'm obligated, both ethically and legally, not to talk about that case.

But I will tell you this. I stood before the judge in an open court session, public session. And that judge, together with the police of Colonie and the assistant district attorney and my attorney, agreed for an adjudication in contemplation of dismissal. And the case was dismissed and the file sealed.

And we should never forget that, when a case is dismissed, what the law says is that, by dismissing the case, it brings with it the presumption of innocence. And by sealing the file, it's designed to prevent the stigma attached with any unsubstantiated allegations from arising. So, as far as I'm concerned, as far as everyone should be concerned, this is a dead issue.

BROWN: Well, first of all, obviously, it's not a dead issue, because it's been out there all week. So let's ? I want to go back to some of this.

Scott, we spent a fair amount of time today looking at New York law on this. There is nothing in a sealed case, zero, that prevents you from talking about it. The point of the seal is to protect you from the state, not to protect the state from you.

Now, you can ? it seems to me, you can choose not to talk about the specifics of this. That's always the right of the guest. But I'm not sure that there is ? I'm not sure what the ethical question is about talking about it. And none of our lawyers can find the legal one, OK?

So, what happened in 2001?

RITTER: Well, Aaron, What I'll say is this. What I'll say is this, Aaron, is, in 2001, I stood before a judge.

BROWN: Why? Why were you before the judge, Scott?

RITTER: Because I was arrested, Aaron.

BROWN: Why were you arrested?

RITTER: I'm not asking for your forgiveness or anybody else's forgiveness.

BROWN: I'm not...

RITTER: I am held accountable to the law. And I was held accountable to the law. And that's what everyone should remember here. I stood before a judge and the due process of law was carried forth. And now we have a situation where the media has turned this into a feeding frenzy. This is not an extrajudicial proceeding, Aaron. I do not stand before you where I have to testify to anything. The case was dismissed. The file was sealed.

BROWN: Scott, Scott...

RITTER: End of story.

BROWN: Scott, respectfully here, you're creating a straw dog in me. And I'm not playing that game. I am not the prosecutor. I am trying to give ...

RITTER: OK.

BROWN: Excuse me. Let me finish here.

I'm trying to give you an opportunity, if you want to take it, to explain what happened. And here's the point of that. And you know this is true. You are radioactive until this is cleared up. Until people understand what this is about, no one is going to talk to you about the things that you feel passionately about.

And as uncomfortable as it may be, I submit to you that it is in your interests to explain what happened. Otherwise, lord only knows what people will say.

RITTER: Well, Aaron, lord only knows what people are already saying. And, frankly speaking, I have no control over that.

But, again, with all due respect, Aaron ? and I totally understand your question and where you're coming from ? but the bottom line is, the rule of law must apply here and we must never lose sight of that. I think you hit on something. I was a credible voice. I am a credible voice. And I will be a credible voice in regards to issues pertaining to Iraq.

And, obviously, what you're not mentioning here is the timing of all of this. Why did this come up now?

BROWN: No, we'll get to the timing of all of this, OK?

RITTER: No, because I have already told you...

BROWN: No, no, no, honestly, believe me...

RITTER: I'm always honest here.

BROWN: We've done business together before. And I think I have a reputation in these things of being fair. And we'll get to the question of timing. But I think we have to deal, I believe ? and I guess I get to call the shot on this one ? that we have to deal with the issue itself first. Let me try it a different way and then I'm not going to spend the rest of our time beating my head against the wall.

Did you ever go into an Internet chat room looking for teenage girls to have a sexual encounter of any sort with? How about that?

RITTER: Aaron, again, I have to respectfully reply by noting that I am obligated legally not to discuss matters pertaining to a

(CROSSTALK)

BROWN: Can you tell me, under what provision of what law are you referring to?

RITTER: Well, Aaron, you know I'm not a lawyer. And I have sought legal counsel on this. And I'm strictly abiding by legal counsel.

BROWN: So, I can dance around this a thousand ways and you're not going to tell me why you were arrested at that Burger King on that day in June. Is that right?

RITTER: Aaron, I will respond the same way, this way, until Sunday. I was arrested in June 2001, charged with a Class B misdemeanor. I stood before a judge and the case was dismissed. The file was sealed. And I certainly wish you and everyone else would respect that.

BROWN: OK. Again, I'm not going to beat my head against the wall. If you don't want to talk about it, you don't want to talk about it.

Let's talk about the ramifications of it. It is my view, and, certainly I think as far as this program is concerned, and I think others, that you are, in a sense, radioactive, that these charges, I would submit, until they're responded to, will keep it that way.

But, in any case, in this moment, for the moment, nobody cares what you think about Iraq. You think that's why this stuff was leaked?

RITTER: Well, I have no way of knowing why this happened. But the effect is obvious. I was supposed to be on an airplane yesterday flying to Baghdad on a personal initiative that could have had great ramifications in regards to issues of war and peace.

I wish people would keep the eye on the ball here. It's about war and peace. It's about the potential of conflict with Iraq, many thousands of Americans dying. And whether you agreed with me or disagreed with me on the issue, there's no doubting ? and you can't rewrite history ? I was a very effective voice in the anti-war effort in the campaign to keep inspectors on the ground.

(CROSSTALK)

BROWN: What is stopping you from going to Baghdad?

RITTER: Well, look, what's stopping me is the reason why I'm sitting here before you, Aaron.

If I went to Baghdad and tried to talk responsibly about issues of war and peace, this issue would have come up. And it would have been a distraction and it would have actually been a disservice. There are people in Baghdad right now pursuing the initiative that I started. And I want to give them every chance of success. I don't want to provide any distractions.

BROWN: Well, one way or another, I hope all this stuff gets cleared up and you can get back to talking about the issues you care about. But, again, I'm not quite sure how that's going to happen.

I appreciate your time. This is not easy for either of us. Thank you very much.

RITTER: Thank you.

BROWN: Scott Ritter, from Albany, New York, tonight.

What a scumbag.


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Tastes just like chicken


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Offlinezappaisgod
horrid asshole

Registered: 02/11/04
Posts: 81,741
Loc: Fractallife's gym
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Re: Scott Ritter - Facing the Enemy on the Ground [Re: JesusChrist]
    #2883092 - 07/12/04 07:49 PM (13 years, 12 days ago)

Nicely done, son of Zappa


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Invisibleluvdemshrooms
Two inch dick..but it spins!?


Registered: 11/29/01
Posts: 34,208
Loc: Lost In Space
Re: Scott Ritter - Facing the Enemy on the Ground [Re: whiterasta]
    #2883112 - 07/12/04 07:54 PM (13 years, 12 days ago)

1. On September 14, 2000, Rupert Murdoch served as the vice finance chairman of a Gore fundraiser in New York City.
2. Rupert Murdoch contributed $50,000 to Al Gore's election campaign.
3. Indeed, Newsweek.com at that time reported "Rupert Murdoch, the global media mogul, has been a longtime darling of political conservatives on practically every continent. These days, though, Murdoch is backing a candidate of a different sort: Democratic nominee Al Gore."
4. The 2000 Democratic convention was held in Los Angeles, in part, because owners of the Staples Convention Center agreed to allow the party to use their facility for free. As one of the co-owners, Murdoch had to approve the deal, which saved the Democrats as much as $10 million. (Source: Los Angeles Times)
5. While serving as a visiting lecturer at Columbia University's School of Journalism in 2001, the former vice president selected a smattering of guest speakers to address his class: Alan Greenspan, David Letterman, and Rupert Murdoch.
6. Four days before the 2000 election, Carl Cameron of the supposedly right-leaning Fox News Channel turned a 1976 police report documenting George W. Bush's DUI in Maine into a huge news story. Fox headlined the story even after reporters for the AP and other news angencies took a pass. (Ultimately, 25 percent of voters said in exit polls the story did factor into their vote.)
http://www.pngusa.net/~mjwrose/rightminded/gore_radio.htm


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You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity. What one person receives without working for another person must work for without receiving. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for that my dear friend is the beginning of the end of any nation. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it. ~ Adrian Rogers


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Invisibleafoaf
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Re: Scott Ritter - Facing the Enemy on the Ground [Re: JesusChrist]
    #2883247 - 07/12/04 08:31 PM (13 years, 12 days ago)

again, more disinformation...

ritter's own words:

And we should never forget that, when a case is dismissed, what the law says is that, by dismissing the case, it brings with it the presumption of innocence. And by sealing the file, it's designed to prevent the stigma attached with any unsubstantiated allegations from arising. So, as far as I'm concerned, as far as everyone should be concerned, this is a dead issue.

now, I'm sure if you were dragged through the mud and called
a pedophile and subsequently had ALL charges against you
dropped, you might be able to empathize with the stance he
has taken on the matter.

but I can understand in your fury to discredit a man that has
largely called it like it is and come out correct you would want
to latch on to something as unfounded and totally ridiculous
as the smear campaign that's been waged against this guy.

as of now, you have zero credibility, Jesus.


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Invisibleluvdemshrooms
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Re: Scott Ritter - Facing the Enemy on the Ground [Re: afoaf]
    #2883294 - 07/12/04 08:38 PM (13 years, 12 days ago)

Why would he have zero credibility? Because you don't want to believe Ritter may have been bribed?

Is it hard to imagine a guilty man being set free for lack of evidence? If yes why would that be any more unlikely than an innocent person being convicted of a crime?

I've seen several people here accuse others of lying even without a $400,000 dollar payment.


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You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity. What one person receives without working for another person must work for without receiving. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for that my dear friend is the beginning of the end of any nation. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it. ~ Adrian Rogers


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Invisibleafoaf
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Re: Scott Ritter - Facing the Enemy on the Ground [Re: luvdemshrooms]
    #2883323 - 07/12/04 08:43 PM (13 years, 12 days ago)

he's not squeaky clean.

he's not my choice for liberal pundit of the month.

but bribed or not, pervert or not....he's been right.

to say he's got zero credibility because of some
supposed bribe or some alleged crime is a joke.

if, for example, someone decided to wage a smear
campaign against Paul Bremer, does that make him
any less informed on the matter of the Iraq transition
and occupation?

The slate article I cited gives a pretty decent treatment
to both sides of the coin, methinks.


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OfflinePhred
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Re: Scott Ritter - Facing the Enemy on the Ground [Re: afoaf]
    #2883754 - 07/12/04 10:19 PM (13 years, 12 days ago)

Actually, no, he hasn't been right. Or rather, he's been as right as John Kerry only because he's taken 180 degree opposing positions on the same issues. Hard to be wrong when you cover both sides of the coin.

All his pre-invasion predictions turned out to be embarassingly off the mark. As a prognosticator on the likely outcome of events in Iraq, he has no more credibility than any random street bum you might bump into on a dark night in an alley off of Times Square. Possibly less.

pinky


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Invisibleafoaf
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Re: Scott Ritter - Facing the Enemy on the Ground [Re: Phred]
    #2883867 - 07/12/04 10:46 PM (13 years, 12 days ago)

1998 - saddam is dangerous
2001 - saddam doesn't pose a threat

things change with time...

oddly enough, Rice and Powell both held the
same beliefs regarding Saddam that Ritter did
in 2001.

All his pre-invasion predictions turned out to be embarassingly off the mark.

which ones?

saddam has no WMD?

the insurgency will be more powerful than we've accounted for?

sure, the shock and awe didn't fall flat on it's face, like he
claimed, so I guess that's ONE prediction that didn't come
to pass.

As a prognosticator on the likely outcome of events
in Iraq, he has no more credibility than any random
street bum you might bump into on a dark night in
an alley off of Times Square.


weak analogy...most Times Square street bums haven't
spent the amount of time in Iraq that Ritter has. They
don't know the iraqi people or their plight quite the same
way Ritter does and they don't know the past and present
weapons and military capabilities of Iraq quite as intimately
as he does.


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OfflineJesusChrist
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Re: Scott Ritter - Facing the Enemy on the Ground [Re: afoaf]
    #2883952 - 07/12/04 11:10 PM (13 years, 12 days ago)

Quote:

afoaf said:
again, more disinformation...

ritter's own words:

And we should never forget that, when a case is dismissed, what the law says is that, by dismissing the case, it brings with it the presumption of innocence. And by sealing the file, it's designed to prevent the stigma attached with any unsubstantiated allegations from arising. So, as far as I'm concerned, as far as everyone should be concerned, this is a dead issue.

now, I'm sure if you were dragged through the mud and called
a pedophile and subsequently had ALL charges against you
dropped, you might be able to empathize with the stance he
has taken on the matter.

but I can understand in your fury to discredit a man that has
largely called it like it is and come out correct you would want
to latch on to something as unfounded and totally ridiculous
as the smear campaign that's been waged against this guy.

as of now, you have zero credibility, Jesus.




Aaron Brown gave him a fair interview in my opinion.

"Did you ever go into an Internet chat room looking for teenage girls to have a sexual encounter of any sort with? How about that?"

I will tell you, if I didn't do it I would have said "HELL NO!" He was arrested twice for this stuff. I wonder who he owed a favor to for getting off and sealing the file. I also wonder if his public comments are payback for that favor.

The guy changed his story after receiving $400,000 from a pro Sadaam Iraqi.

I guess we have different standards for judging credibility. Keep on defending pedophiles that accept Sadaam's bloodmoney in exchange for their loyalty. I am glad that you can feel secure with voices such as Ritter's "protecting" America. I myself feel safer on golf courses knowing that OJ Simpsom is endlessly combing them in the search for Nicole's killer.

I feel sorry for the left. Communisim fell. Cradle to grave socialist policies have repeatedly proven to be wide scale failures. Great society programs to fight poverty only increased it and ended up enslaving generations of urban minorities with entitlement mythology and hand out mindsets. Case after case of leftist policies have proved to be an unmitigated disaster. So now you can turn to people like Michael Moore and Scott Ritter. If that floats your boat, go ahead. Tell me I have no credibilty again, that made me laugh.


--------------------
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OfflinePhred
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Re: Scott Ritter - Facing the Enemy on the Ground [Re: afoaf]
    #2883965 - 07/12/04 11:13 PM (13 years, 12 days ago)

afoaf writes:

1998 - saddam is dangerous
2001 - saddam doesn't pose a threat

things change with time...


Yes, they do. What Ritter has never been able to explain is how he knew things had changed so much (if they did indeed change at all). After all, he was hardly the Iraqis' favorite inspector. He had nose to nose shouting matches with them, and complained bitterly that the inspectors were not receiving the support they needed to do their jobs. He resigned over that, in fact. I have posted all this info several times, and I know for a fact you have read it.

So explain to us, please, just where (after he had left UNSCOM and Iraq) he received the magic information -- information no other inspector received -- that convinced him everything he had been saying up to the day he left Iraq and in numerous interviews after his return Stateside was wrong? Who was his source?

Some of the more cynical posters here believe it just might have been the 400k put up by Iraq for his movie that made him change his tune. Some of the really cynical folks out there in the world beyond this forum believe he may have been blackmailed into changing his stance by Iraqis who knew about his predilection for underage girls. For the record, I personally think this last is a bit of a reach -- by the time he started saying all his previous statements (and published book) detailing the quantities of chem and bio stuff remaining in Iraq were incorrect, his taste for young girls had already become public knowledge. Blackmail doesn't work on stuff that isn't a secret anymore.

By the way, note that when it comes to his credibility, his sexual preferences are totally irrelevant. He would be just as untrustworthy if he was celibate. His own statements prove that.

weak analogy...most Times Square street bums haven't
spent the amount of time in Iraq that Ritter has.


Up until 1998. Ritter knows little more about what transpired in Iraq between the time he left and March of 2003 than a well-informed news junkie. He wasn't there.

They don't know the iraqi people or their plight quite the same
way Ritter does...


I would say the "plight" of the Iraqi people today is significantly different than the plight of the Iraqi people in 1998, wouldn't you?

... and they don't know the past and present
weapons and military capabilities of Iraq quite as intimately
as he does.


As has already been pointed out, Ritter can't seem to make up his mind as to just what weapons Iraq had even in 1998, let alone what they might have had in March of 2003. I ask again -- just who was feeding him the information upon which he based his estimates?

pinky


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Re: Scott Ritter - Facing the Enemy on the Ground [Re: Phred]
    #2884037 - 07/12/04 11:33 PM (13 years, 12 days ago)

the slate article indicates that he had changed his
stance before the money came up, considering the
book that he had written regarding the sanctions
and the like.

as for the who or why he changed and the basis for
this, I have no claim, but what I do know is that this
guy has been lambasted as a traitor, a pedo and
much more, I'm sure, but no one has been able to
definitively dredge up anything of any worthwhile
foundation....just speculation and hyperbole.

as for JesusChrist, thanks for the partisan polemic
on the plight of the left. I'll reiterate, Ritter isn't my
hero.

he was arrested once for this, there hasn't been
any clear indication what the first arrest was regarding,
please send me a link if you've got it. further, some
sources indicate that the 400k and the change of stance
aren't cause and effect.

I feel sorry for the right...resorting to personal attack and
perpetuating slanderous lies just to debase their critics...

blah yadda blah yadda.

at the end of the day, Saddam didn't/doesn't have any
WMD, the resistance has cost us nearly 900 american
lives and counting and Scott Ritter's predictions, as
tenuous and tainted as you may view them, have largely
been correct.

tell OJ I send my regards.


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