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Re: Replacing Soy Hulls in Masters Mix [Re: TPython]
    #28705961 -

Alfalfa, or lucerne pellets work just as well as soy pellets.


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We are all in this together.
Visit my site, forestfungi.com.au, let me know what you think.

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Re: Replacing Soy Hulls in Masters Mix [Re: worowa]
    #28705988 -

worowa said:
Alfalfa, or lucerne pellets work just as well as soy pellets.


Were gonna see. Is that what you use or have tried it before?

The thing I’m worried about now is that my King Blues like to pin at a bit lower temperatures so now that it’s warming up here I’m hoping it doesn’t mess up this experiment too much. The elm oysters should be fine though

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Re: Replacing Soy Hulls in Masters Mix [Re: TPython] * 1
    #28716166 -

March 27th

Was trying to wait to throw all the bags in the tent at the same time but the KBO that was spawned to the straight HWP had a lot of pinning so I threw it in by itself this morning.

The bluegrass seems to be performing about the same as the soy hulls with colonization rate so far. They’ll probably go into the tent this weekend along with the other HWP bag. the Alfalfa has been the slowest growing so far so they might not get in the tent until mid next week.


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Re: Replacing Soy Hulls in Masters Mix [Re: TPython] * 1
    #28722937 -

April 4th

All bags are in the tent except for the Alfalfa which should be ready in another couple days.

Really liking the speed and pinset on the pure HWP but everything else is chuggin along right behind it.


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Re: Replacing Soy Hulls in Masters Mix [Re: TPython]
    #28723569 -

Interesting thread !
Would be interesting if at the end, pure HWP work better.

I am currently playing with wheat bran.I read somewhere that the best amount was 15/20% but I am trying with 90/10 up to 50/50. With more bags and different species (few oysters and lion's mane). Will update you of the result

Lot of Alfalfa available in my area, I will for sure give it a try in the next few week. Even a mix of wheat bran, alfalfa and hwp.

I also heard of sunflower husk pellet, some of you did try this one?

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Re: Replacing Soy Hulls in Masters Mix [Re: GRETO]
    #28723610 -

GRETO said:
Interesting thread !
Would be interesting if at the end, pure HWP work better.

I am currently playing with wheat bran.I read somewhere that the best amount was 15/20% but I am trying with 90/10 up to 50/50. With more bags and different species (few oysters and lion's mane). Will update you of the result

Lot of Alfalfa available in my area, I will for sure give it a try in the next few week. Even a mix of wheat bran, alfalfa and hwp.

I also heard of sunflower husk pellet, some of you did try this one?


Yeah please do update on how the wheat bran trials go for you. I’m thinking of experimenting with bran and softwood next so it would be nice to see what ratio does best for you.

Haven’t tried sunflower husk yet. These were just the cheapest and most available pellets in my area that have a close nutrition value to soy hulls.

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Re: Replacing Soy Hulls in Masters Mix [Re: TPython]
    #28725373 -

Sure ! The test bags are currently in my steamer.
Will also buy a 25kg bag of sunflower pellet, it is so cheap that it require a test.

Softwood would be an interesting. I heard anything and everything about softwood. Got some antifongic resin so it won't grow, grow but weird taste, can make mutations, ok for oyster not for lion's mane or the opposite

Then I land on a producer instagram page @themushroomshopllc based in new york who use 70% pine sawdust 30% soy hull and WOW, i think they grow the biggest flush I ever seen in my life

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Re: Replacing Soy Hulls in Masters Mix [Re: GRETO]
    #28725530 -

Pine pellets are probably aged and composted enough that the resins are gone.  I have a bag upstairs I was using as cat litter at one point.  I'll give it a try with oysters this year and see how it does.

I think there are also some technically softwoods that get counted as hardwood because they don't contain resins.  Like aspen, for example.

Which I also have around because of pets...  so I'd be willing to test that one too with oysters this year because why not?


--------------------
And if I only could
I'd make a deal with God
And I'd get him to swap our places
I'd be running up that road
Be running up that hill
With no problems

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Re: Replacing Soy Hulls in Masters Mix [Re: tree frog]
    #28725811 -

That’s kinda what got me on this current testing spree tree frog, “why not”. I’m not a commercial producer that can’t afford any experimentation so I figured might as well take the next couple runs to figure out how the different cheap materials I can get a hold of preform.

Aspen was the main thing I was thinking of cause there’s a shit load of it in my area but it usually comes in the form of bedding material.There’s also a wood pellet plant close by that makes them out of a fir mix so I’m not sure how that would preform but for $4 for a 50lb sack it’s worth a shot.

If I can get Bluegrass pellets and aspen to work well then I think I could get my price per bag to under a dollar

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Re: Replacing Soy Hulls in Masters Mix [Re: TPython]
    #28725872 -

Are you also using soy hulls?

I need to order some.  I don't think they're economical for me right now, but I might be able to find better sources.

But to do a side by side with other stuff I need the control lol


--------------------
And if I only could
I'd make a deal with God
And I'd get him to swap our places
I'd be running up that road
Be running up that hill
With no problems

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Re: Replacing Soy Hulls in Masters Mix [Re: tree frog]
    #28725890 -

Yeah that’s why I wanted to run these side by sides while I still have some soy hulls left because I don’t think I’ll be ordering anymore after this bag is gone.

The shipping on those 50lb bags are steep!

The pure hardwood pellet bags seem to be putting out skinnier fruits with smaller caps almost like how oysters grow without enough FAE while the traditional masters mix and blue grass bags are putting out the thicker more compact clusters like I’m used to. I was expecting more or less the same looking fruits with maybe a smaller yield off the pure HWP but it actually seems like the lack of nutrition is also changing the growth characteristics.

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Re: Replacing Soy Hulls in Masters Mix [Re: TPython]
    #28725892 -

Yeah, the supplements are usually to add protein and maybe even fat I believe.  Grains have plenty of carbs already so that's not an issue really.  Upping the grain amount can help because grains do have protein and fat too.  But it's more efficient to use something else because they're mostly sugars.

Soy hulls I think add protein and lignin both.  So it can basically replace the supplement and 50% of the hard wood.

It's like nutrient rich straw, essentially.


--------------------
And if I only could
I'd make a deal with God
And I'd get him to swap our places
I'd be running up that road
Be running up that hill
With no problems

Edited by tree frog (04/04/24 01:44 PM)

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Re: Replacing Soy Hulls in Masters Mix [Re: tree frog] * 1
    #28725917 -

Ahhhh i see, that makes sense. I’m glad I ended up running this experiment instead of blindly sticking to masters mix. While the colonization time of the HWP with the extra spawn was very fast and the benefit of not having to pressure cook would be nice, so far I’m not really liking the look of the fruits



Pure HWP on the left and bluegrass on the right.
Albeit a couple days apart in growth so it’s still a little early for a final comparison. I’m ultimately interested in the ending yields between them all though

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Re: Replacing Soy Hulls in Masters Mix [Re: TPython]
    #28726003 -

I think the main benefit of master's mix is super nice first flushes rather than pure biological efficiency too.

Like, I believe that over multiple flushes, protein supplements do as well as master's mix.

But because of how bio-available everything is with master's mix the colony can support a massive first flush.  And then the cultivator can dump the block in the compost, because the second flush won't be nearly as good (as far as I understand).  Rinse, repeat.

With supplemented blocks, I let things flush two or more times to catch up.  Which is a less efficient use of my fruiting space.  But, soy hulls are expensive, and I've never used them, so I don't have the dopamine fix those giant flushes probably give :lol:


--------------------
And if I only could
I'd make a deal with God
And I'd get him to swap our places
I'd be running up that road
Be running up that hill
With no problems

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Re: Replacing Soy Hulls in Masters Mix [Re: tree frog] * 1
    #28726011 -

Sorry to double post, but I just had a thought.

A mix of some sort of pellet straw, or maybe corn cob actually for texture and moisture, and supplements would be similar to soy hulls.

I came across this paper recently while researching corn cobs more generally, and dug through it more just now.  This was done with shiitake and 50% of the substrate was corn cob.  It outperformed the supplemented sawdust control by 40% on the first flush.  Which I think is similar to how master's mix compares to supplemented sawdust without soy hulls.

https://www.researchgate.net/publication/354401632_Corncob_as_a_Substrate_for_the_Cultivation_of_Lentinula_edodes

Quote:
The results revealed the feasibility to substitute corncob for
sawdust in L. edodes production in terms of ecological and
economic benefits, and a high-yield formula (E: 50% corn-
cob, 28% oak sawdust, 20% wheat bran, 2% gypsum) was
obtained. Using formula E to produce L. edodes, the single
log yield was as high as 722.08g/log, increased by 40.39%
comparing to the control, showing an excellent boosting
effect. The proportion of corncob in this formula reaches
50%, which can effectively reduce the use of sawdust and
make good use of agricultural waste, thus lowering material
cost and reducing environment burden



--------------------
And if I only could
I'd make a deal with God
And I'd get him to swap our places
I'd be running up that road
Be running up that hill
With no problems

Edited by tree frog (04/04/24 03:39 PM)

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Re: Replacing Soy Hulls in Masters Mix [Re: tree frog]
    #28726053 -

That’s been my experience with MM. Big ol first flush and then maybe half the weight if not less on the second and then I trash em. So I guess letting these bags go for 2-3 flushes would get the best data for how they preform up against each other. Seems like with how big of a cash crop soy is in the US that the hulls would be widely available but it doesn’t seem to be. Maybe in the South it’s a different story.

Wow I’ll have to give that a deeper read later that’s really interesting. Would be awesome to find a place that processes canned corn and try and get some of their cob waste for probably next to nothing.

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Re: Replacing Soy Hulls in Masters Mix [Re: TPython] * 1
    #28731135 -

April 5th

Got the first harvests from the pure HWP bags. Pretty minuscule compared to what I’m used to with masters mix.
9.7oz on the king blues and 5.3oz on the Elms.

April 8th

Harvested the Masters mix and Bluegrass bags today. King blues on the masters mix put out 14.5oz, the elm did 10.6oz. While the king blues on the bluegrass did 18.7oz and the elm 11.1oz.

First 2 pics are the Masters mix and the second 2 are the Bluegrass


Also noticed some pins on the alfalfa bags today so they finally went in the tent. For whatever reason they were quite a bit slower than all the rest.

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Re: Replacing Soy Hulls in Masters Mix [Re: TPython]
    #28731643 -

Looks like a bluegrass mix could be worth experimenting with

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Re: Replacing Soy Hulls in Masters Mix [Re: MushroomMik]
    #28731667 -

Yeah I’m actually really digging it so far. At this point I don’t see any reason to buy the expensive soy hulls since the bluegrass is preforming just as well.

Interested to see how the alfalfa does being that it colonized quite a bit slower

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Re: Replacing Soy Hulls in Masters Mix [Re: TPython]
    #28731670 -

Well I got some corn cob bedding in the mail today. I'm going to try running both actives and edibles on it. My plan with the edibles is to replace half the sawdust.

If it does well I will buy some big bags of pelletized corn cobs. It's pretty affordable at tractor supply, like $11 for a 40 lb bag or something.


--------------------
And if I only could
I'd make a deal with God
And I'd get him to swap our places
I'd be running up that road
Be running up that hill
With no problems

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Shop: North Spore Bulk Substrate   Original Sensible Seeds Bulk Cannabis Seeds   Sporeworks.EU Spores for European Microscopy   Mushroom-Hut Grow Bags   MagicBag.co All-In-One Bags That Don't Suck   Unfolding Nature Unfolding Nature: Being in the Implicate Order

Mushrooms, Mycology and Psychedelics > Gourmet and Medicinal Mushrooms
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