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Shop: North Spore Bulk Substrate   Unfolding Nature Unfolding Nature: Being in the Implicate Order

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What is sadness? What is happiness?
    #1901650 -

I figured this was worthy of it's own thread...

Long ago in China there was a famous student of Zen Master Ma Jo named Han Ong. Everyone said to him, "You are lucky, you are happy." Then he said, "What is luck? What is happiness?" He always spoke like this.

He had a good horse, which he liked to ride every day. One day the horse disappeared, so everyone said, "Oh, are you unhappy? Are you sad?" He said, "What is sadness? What is happiness?" No feeling. His horse ran away, but he only said, "What is sadness? What is happiness?" Everyone said, "This man has no feeling.'' Usually, if someone is attached to something and it goes away, then he is very sad. But Han Ong only said, "What is sadness? What is happiness?"

A week later Han Ong got a very good horse; we say, jun me. This means it only has to see the shadow of the whip and it runs. This is a very clever horse. So everyone said, "You are happy. You are lucky." He said, "What is luck? What is happiness?" Only this. No feeling. Then everybody said, "This man is very lucky." His son liked the horse and rode it every day. He only had to mount the horse and it would go, so he rode around and around, very happy. Then one day while riding, he fell and broke his leg. So everyone said, "Ah, I am sorry your son broke his leg. Are you sad?" He said, "What is sadness? What is happiness?" No feeling.

Soon after this, there were many wars, with North China and South China fighting each other. All the young people had to go to the army. But Han Ong's son had a broken leg, so he could not go; he stayed at home and only helped his parents. His leg was not so bad, so he could work in the garden and help them with their chores. Everybody said, "You are lucky. You are happy." So he said, "What is luck? What is happiness?" This style speech.

This is Han Ong's famous, "What is happiness? What is sadness?" His whole life he used only this speech to teach other people. Outside, happiness appears, luck appears, sadness appears, but he is not moving. "What is true happiness? What is sadness?" Not moving. This mind is very important. Originally there is nothing. If you attach to something, then you have luck, happiness, sadness, suffering -- everything appears. If you don't attach, this is clear mind. Then there is no sadness, no happiness, no unhappiness -- they all disappear. So if you attach to name and form, if you attach to words, then your mind is also moving. Don't attach to anything. Then your mind is enough. Then appearing, disappearing, whatever happens outside doesn't matter. Then teaching other people is possible. So Han Ong's friends and all his students learned from him. Only one phrase: "What is sadness? What is happiness?" This means your mind moving is no good. If you make happiness, if you make sadness, that's no good. Don't make anything; don't attach to anything; don't hold anything. Then you are complete. This was his teaching. - Zen Master Seung Sahn



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"no-mind un-thinks no-thought..."

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Re: What is sadness? What is happiness? [Re: lucid]
    #1901812 -

"In fact there are no facts" There are only states of being and levels of reality so therefor the concepts of happiness and sadness are absurd the is only "I" and we are basically energy ever changing


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Re: What is sadness? What is happiness? [Re: PIMPtheSYSTEM]
    #1901932 -

The Oneness of Being is NOT the Being of Oneness...
I heard this on MTV once... :smirk:


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"no-mind un-thinks no-thought..."

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Re: What is sadness? What is happiness? [Re: lucid]
    #1901935 -

I rant,
therefore I am...


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"no-mind un-thinks no-thought..."

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Re: What is sadness? What is happiness? [Re: lucid]
    #1901964 -

Ahh.. freedom of attachment.

And I don't think that you can't have happiness from not having attachment. I mean, positive emotions aren't really bad, there isn't any reason we can't experience them, as long as we don't get attached to being happy.

Preferences are the way to go. If you get whatever it is that you prefer, then hell motherfucker yeah! If you don't, oh well, it is only a preference. Positive emotions, yes! Negative, seperating emotions: NO WAY; JOSE!
Peace.


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:redpanda:
If I should die this very moment
I wouldn't fear
For I've never known completeness
Like being here
Wrapped in the warmth of you
Loving every breath of you
:heartpump: :bunnyhug: :yinyang:

:yinyang: :levitate: :earth: :levitate: :yinyang:

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Re: What is sadness? What is happiness? [Re: lucid]
    #1901966 -

Quote:
If you make happiness, if you make sadness, that's no good. Don't make anything; don't attach to anything; don't hold anything. Then you are complete. This was his teaching. - Zen Master Seung Sahn




This seems like such a cold state of mind. But it is appealing.

In a way,I would like to be able to attain this state of mind.


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I may not always tell the truth, but atleast I'm honest
-----------

I see what everyone is saying. It is so hard to form an opinion when you see both sides so clearly!

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Re: What is sadness? What is happiness? [Re: sirreal]
    #1902005 -

sirreal said:
This seems like such a cold state of mind. But it is appealing.

In a way,I would like to be able to attain this state of mind. 


?Once again recommends the book Handbook to Higher Consciousness by Alan Keyes?

:grin: As it is described there, it is a cold state of mind.. but it doesn't have to be that way, freedom for attachments is usually full of love and so forth..

The book is a definite read, in any case.
Peace.


--------------------
:redpanda:
If I should die this very moment
I wouldn't fear
For I've never known completeness
Like being here
Wrapped in the warmth of you
Loving every breath of you
:heartpump: :bunnyhug: :yinyang:

:yinyang: :levitate: :earth: :levitate: :yinyang:

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Re: What is sadness? What is happiness? [Re: fireworks_god]
    #1902016 -

Agreed... I don't think that is a cold place at all. I like the teacup analogy:

To pour tea in a cup, the cup must be empty. If the cup is full (metaphorically, full of expectations, attachments, beliefs, wants), then there is no room for tea (joy, life, new experinces). To have tea, one must start with an empty cup.


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There is no flag large enough to cover the shame of killing innocent people.
  --  Howard Zinn

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Re: What is sadness? What is happiness? [Re: fireworks_god]
    #1902063 -

fireworks_god said:
?Once again recommends the book Handbook to Higher Consciousness by Alan Keyes?



He's that guy who went for the rupublican nomination a few elections back, right? I'll check it out.

Quote:
As it is described there, it is a cold state of mind.. but it doesn't have to be that way, freedom for attachments is usually full of love and so forth..


Hmmm. I will have to think about it. To have a love that is unattached to anything is a hard concept to grasp. I will check the book out though.



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I may not always tell the truth, but atleast I'm honest
-----------

I see what everyone is saying. It is so hard to form an opinion when you see both sides so clearly!

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Re: What is sadness? What is happiness? [Re: sirreal]
    #1902128 -

sirreal said:
He's that guy who went for the rupublican nomination a few elections back, right? I'll check it out.
   


Um, no, the two must have got crossed in my mind.. hehe. Sorry! I meant Ken Keyes (Jr.), I guess. Here's an Amaon link:  Handbook to Higher Consciousness
Peace.


--------------------
:redpanda:
If I should die this very moment
I wouldn't fear
For I've never known completeness
Like being here
Wrapped in the warmth of you
Loving every breath of you
:heartpump: :bunnyhug: :yinyang:

:yinyang: :levitate: :earth: :levitate: :yinyang:

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Re: What is sadness? What is happiness? [Re: fireworks_god]
    #1902157 -

fireworks_god said:
sirreal said:
He's that guy who went for the rupublican nomination a few elections back, right? I'll check it out.



Um, no, the two must have got crossed in my mind.. hehe. Sorry! I meant Ken Keyes (Jr.),
Peace.



LOL!

Thanks for the link. I am going to order a used one.


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I may not always tell the truth, but atleast I'm honest
-----------

I see what everyone is saying. It is so hard to form an opinion when you see both sides so clearly!

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Re: What is sadness? What is happiness? [Re: fireworks_god]
    #1902163 -

I wuz just checkin out the book at Amazon, to bad there's no
scanned pages fer viewing. The workbook does, but that seems
like a commercialization of the original. I'm Googling up
on him right now...
looks interesting so far...


--------------------
"no-mind un-thinks no-thought..."

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Re: What is sadness? What is happiness? [Re: lucid]
    #1902195 -

I clicked my link, and above the image there is a "Look Inside" link that allows you to see some exerpts.. I will soon be buying a used copy, too, since I left mine with a friend in the States who probably hasn't even fucking read it yet...
Peace.


--------------------
:redpanda:
If I should die this very moment
I wouldn't fear
For I've never known completeness
Like being here
Wrapped in the warmth of you
Loving every breath of you
:heartpump: :bunnyhug: :yinyang:

:yinyang: :levitate: :earth: :levitate: :yinyang:

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Re: What is sadness? What is happiness? [Re: fireworks_god]
    #1902758 -

This is good stuff man !
Thanks for the link !!
I'm gonna see if I can find it in the bks stores around here...


--------------------
"no-mind un-thinks no-thought..."

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Re: What is sadness? What is happiness? [Re: lucid]
    #28597583 -

The essence of one's soul entwined to make all that one is


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Ignorance in the age of information is a choice.

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Re: What is sadness? What is happiness? [Re: sixbit]
    #28598285 -

sixbit said:
The essence of one's soul entwined to make all that one is


body, mind, and experience being that essence


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:brainfart: _ :finger:

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Re: What is sadness? What is happiness? [Re: redgreenvines]
    #28598456 -

I remember reading a story similar to the OP. It was more oriented toward assumption. Something good can turn out bad and vice versa, therefore perhaps best to not get to excited about either.

I think the man in the OP did experience happiness and sadness.

It's worth considering that instead of happiness being the goal/purpose of life it's perhaps a utility that reinforces various attractors and success. That doesn't mean one shouldn't enjoy happiness. But happiness as a feeling, being a utility, doesn't last. Same with sadness. And a distinction can be made between being happy and desiring happiness. Desiring happiness is a kind of suffering. Feeling happy and enjoying the moment is not, but desire can arise even in such moments as fear of loss. This is why I'm not keen on psychological tricks or positive thinking. Avoiding the negative thinking is enough. Let it go.

In those moments the mind may revolt in fear of the emptiness, neither wanting nor not wanting.

And I think this phenomena can cause great confusion. How are we to live our life? Never wanting or not wanting? Doesn't seem practical.

The extent to which one takes this is personal and I don't think there are perfect answers, meaning to say one is in a better position understanding those principles and experiencing happiness and sadness than not understanding and experiencing same. If a person want's to get their hopes up for something and take a chance on getting their feelings crushed, perhaps they should do so.

And perhaps there's a bit of a catch 22 in there so I would suggest, these stories are about old men, not young men.


--------------------
rahz

comfort pleasure power love     truth awareness peace I am      I feel      I do     I love  I speak    I see    I know

why there is reality and patterned, law-like consistency at all, rather than noise or non-reality is not a question physics answers. It's a question physics presupposes an answer to in order to provide other answers.

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Shop: North Spore Bulk Substrate   Unfolding Nature Unfolding Nature: Being in the Implicate Order

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