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Unfolding Nature Shop: Unfolding Nature: Being in the Implicate Order

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Re: Why people get angry at the Swam [Re: Swami]
    #2828313 -

I don't agree with the idea of living in an illusion, peronally.. someone agreed with me above in those words, but I never said them..

I don't think the problem is that you want to disillusion people.. the problem is that you think it's your place to do so. You are incorrect. Everyone needs to learn for themselves.

While you are busy telling others why they are wrong, what you SHOULD be doing is applying your own logic to yourself and figuring out how you can better yourself personally, instead of telling others to better themselves.

"You are not open minded, stop kidding yourself and give your mental masturbation a rest"

"I would if I didn't have an audience. If the house is packed, no need to change the material..."

That quote pretty much makes my point for me. You should be more concerned with the fact that you feel the need for an audience than you should be with correcting the audience.

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Re: Why people get angry at the Swam [Re: Swami]
    #2828379 -

Truth seekers should seek truth. I agree.

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Re: Why people get angry at the Swam [Re: JacquesCousteau]
    #2828576 -

It's the act of searching that's the important part.  You will NEVER learn any objective truths.  Your turths don't apply to anyone else, necessarily.  You want to avoid living in illusion?  Uh, yeah, good luck with that.  :rolleyes:

If you find yourself living a life devoid of illusion all that means is you've stopped noticing the illusions.  This isn't to say that life isn't great fun.  But it is, at it's heart, a pure, delightful absurdity.


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Don't worry, I'm wrong.

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Re: Why people get angry at the Swam [Re: Panoramix]
    #2828629 -

You seem to have missed the point of my post entirely.

I'm not saying that I live a life devoid of illusion. Far from it. I'm actually saying the exact opposite: That we ALL suffer the same difficulty of having to perceive everything through these "illusions".

All I'm saying is that we should try to learn to see past these illusions.

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Re: Why people get angry at the Swam [Re: JacquesCousteau]
    #2828890 -

All I'm saying is that all that lies 'past' those illusions are other illusions of a different nature. I don't disagree with your assertion that "we ALL suffer the same difficulty of having to percieve everthing through these 'illusions'." That's why Swami's Truths don't necessarily apply to anyone else. But while the search for objectitvity, truth and absolutes is great fun, it's best to realize that you'll never really understand quite how everything works. And maybe it's better that way...


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Don't worry, I'm wrong.

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Re: Why people get angry at the Swam [Re: Panoramix]
    #2828919 -

I assert that we all live in a dream with each dream completely different. We have common ideas, but our interpretations of our dreams are vastly different. The only difference between night dreams and everyday reality is that when we are awake we have a frame of reference provided by our senses. What an illusion is, is hard to interpret. Some people operate under such strong illusions that it becomes their reality. That does not mean there is not truth, but truth is extremely subjective.

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Re: Why people get angry at the Swam [Re: Swami]
    #2828927 -

I would like the San Diego zoo if I had the chance to visit it ever. But I do like zoo's in general. I always liked watching the polar bears swimming. Tv dosn't do creatures justice. Neather does a zoo, but it is better than not being able to see them at all I suppose.

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Re: Why people get angry at the Swam [Re: Panoramix]
    #2829117 -

Quote:
Panoramix said:
But while the search for objectitvity, truth and absolutes is great fun, it's best to realize that you'll never really understand quite how everything works. And maybe it's better that way...



My mistake, friend. We are very much on the same page. I agree quite fully with this statement.

Edit: I do entertain the notion that I might one day understand it all, though.. not in this life, but in whatever comes after it. May it be death and nonexistance or transcendence to another level of consciousness, both have the potential to offer "understanding" in their own way.

(Sorry if I got a little out there with this last paragraph, it's late and I've been smoking a lot.)

Edited by JacquesCousteau (06/25/04 11:15 PM)

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Re: Why people get angry at the Swam [Re: JacquesCousteau]
    #2829177 -

"I would if I didn't have an audience. If the house is packed, no need to change the material..."

That quote pretty much makes my point for me. You should be more concerned with the fact that you feel the need for an audience than you should be with correcting the audience.

As I am also here to learn, tell me why in very SPECIFIC terms, that I should be concerned, rather than making a flat statement.

Does an author care about his readership? Why? Ask ANY of your musician friends if they would rather play to a nearly empty or a packed house? Do you like people to appreciate your work; to come to your parties? Maybe you hope no one shows so that more food and beer will be left over...

The greater the number of readers/respondents the greater the likelihood for us to learn, no? Perhaps you would rather come here and find no one logged on. Would that be better in your eyes? Sometimes there needs to be a "main attraction" to pull people into the tent.


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The proof is in the pudding.

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Re: Why people get angry at the Swam [Re: JacquesCousteau]
    #2829195 -

They are more concerned with making money than getting you the right product for your needs, and therefore nothing they say can be taken at face value.

Au contraire, mon ami! Jokes and one-liners aside, most everything I say can be taken at face value. Name ONE other member who regularly backs nearly all of their counter-statements with real money and is willing to put their views to task?

Before you go off on a tangential response, please name the other member(s) willing to do so first or I will not even read your post. If there are no others, how could you possibly call me disingenuous and call yourself a fair-minded and thinking person?


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The proof is in the pudding.

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Re: Why people get angry at the Swam [Re: JacquesCousteau]
    #2829202 -

Everyone needs to learn for themselves.

Do you honestly want me to rip this statement to shreds? I will show incredible restraint and let you save face by recanting first because I am big-hearted.


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The proof is in the pudding.

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Re: Why people get angry at the Swam [Re: Swami]
    #2830280 -

Nah, I don't. I'm already done here. I made my point, and you proceeded to do what I figured you'd do. No need, really.

"Before you go off on a tangential response, please name the other member(s) willing to do so first or I will not even read your post. If there are no others, how could you possibly call me disingenuous and call yourself a fair-minded and thinking person?"

The problem is that you think that the fact that you put up 20k against anyone who can prove their "meta-physical abilities" has anything to do with the way you conduct yourself on these boards. I NEVER claimed to have any super-natural powers that I could prove to you, so why do you think your "20k challenge" applies?

Eh, you already said you weren't going to respond to this anyway.. so I guess it doesn't matter what I say anymore.

That's okay, though. Like I said before, "we all have to learn for ourselves"...

Edit: By the way, I've chosen to walk in a hypocrite's shoes in hopes of making you realize that you do the same. Have you ever noticed that the people who walk around going "I'm really smart" are really stupid?

"I will show incredible restraint and let you save face by recanting first because I am big-hearted."

So humble, too.

Edited by JacquesCousteau (06/26/04 11:54 AM)

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Re: Why people get angry at the Swam [Re: Swami]
    #2830296 -

Quote:
Swami said:
More direct answer, because illusions do hurt people - old people get defrauded by televangelists and con-artists like John Edward; people died in Jonestown, Waco, Rancho San Marguerita (Heaven's Gate), zealots crash planes into buildings, Rajneeshpuram, Manson Family...


I hate it when people point to Waco as an example of the dangers of religion. What do tanks burning down your compound have to do with your beliefs?


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"It is dangerous to be right when the government is wrong."--Voltaire

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Re: Why people get angry at the Swam [Re: silversoul7]
    #2830376 -

I hate it when people point to Waco as an example of the dangers of religion.
Hate is not becomming of you. Love is where it's at.

What do tanks burning down your compound have to do with your beliefs?
Dunno, what DO tanks burning down buildings have to do with your beliefs? (You made the ascertion, you answer the question.)


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The proof is in the pudding.

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Re: Why people get angry at the Swam [Re: JacquesCousteau]
    #2830394 -

Nice dance-around on several poignant questions that I asked you. Why do you not answer?

The problem is that you think that the fact that you put up 20k against anyone who can prove their "meta-physical abilities" has anything to do with the way you conduct yourself on these boards.
The problem is: You called me disingenuous.

Here is Webster once again:

1. Not straightforward or candid

2. Pretending to be unaware or unsophisticated; faux-na?f.

3. Unaware or uninformed; naive.

I am v-e-r-y straightforward; and certainly don't pretend ignorance. Which of us has a better grasp of the English language? I will wager - nah, forget it.


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The proof is in the pudding.

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Re: Why people get angry at the Swam [Re: Swami]
    #2830435 -

I thought you were done here? Well, I guess I was too, so hell, why not!

You should not be pointing fingers about dancing around the subject of posts, because you've done it to me many a time. Why did you not answer?

I'm not here for a pissing match.. I took up the role of a hypocrite because I thought it was worth it to make you see that you too have your faults and errors and that you should spend your time correcting those instead of others.

This was my mistake, and it is your mistake too. Look in the mirror my friend.

Edit: And when did I use the word "disingenuous"?

Edited by JacquesCousteau (06/26/04 12:42 PM)

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Re: Why people get angry at the Swam [Re: JacquesCousteau]
    #2830451 -

Once they've determined that you have a "hidden agenda" = disingenuous
What exactly is hidden or misrepresented?

Look in the mirror my friend.
My Gawd! What a handsome man! Thanks for the tip.



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The proof is in the pudding.

Edited by Swami (06/26/04 09:09 PM)

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Re: Why people get angry at the Swam [Re: Huehuecoyotl]
    #2831064 -

"i'll let you be in my dreams if i can be in yours"
i think bob dylan said that
:wink:


--------------------
old enough to know better
not old enough to care

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Re: Why people get angry at the Swam [Re: Swami]
    #2831084 -

I never said anything about Waco.

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Re: Why people get angry at the Swam [Re: Swami]
    #2831772 -

I think people get mad at Swami because he's one of the best debaters on this board.  He challenges beliefs and weak statements with great skill in logic.  It's a blow to the ego when I (or others) can't compete.  Some folks have a difficult time accepting the possibility that they might be wrong.  Maybe I'm actually mad at myself?

Anyway, the dork...er, Swami is a good man.  Props, homie  :thumbup:


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"...yet another in a long series of diversions an attempt to avoid responsibility."

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Unfolding Nature Shop: Unfolding Nature: Being in the Implicate Order

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