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Re: Arrest Proof Yourself.pdf [Re: Auron]
    #27820697 -

Auron said:
Do the police really waste their time chasing down mushroom growers?



Police love to bust people. According to this book written by an ex-cop, they don't have a set "quota", but a cop who doesn't do enough arrests won't be a cop long.

Also according to this book, and other things I've heard, cops love to bust drug users / dealers / producers. A felony bust is better than a misdemeanor bust, and growing shrooms is 100% a felony most places, at least in 49 of 50 states in America. It's "drug manufacturer." Legally same as running a meth lab.

Plus they'll weigh the whole shoe box / monotub, and count the weight of the sub (several pounds) as weight of the shrooms, since mycelium contains psilocybin, even though we all throw that out. A grow that would produce 15 grams dry becomes 2 kilos in the charging documents. They often even include the weight of the container, and unless you have a killer expensive pay lawyer, they usually get away with it.

Finally, cops love to bust hippies instead of violent gang bangers. Violent gang bangers will try to kill them. Shroom hippies will usually just submit when arrested.

Cops will almost always take an easy felony bust of a peaceful person who isn't hurting anyone over a difficult dangerous felony bust of a person who loves to hurt people.

That's why cops don't really keep down crime. They don't actively pursue the real crime much. They actively pursue  arrests only.

This is because people vote in politicians who make laws that make old people feel safe, based on "lots of arrests" rather than fewer real arrests that make an area safer.

I'm 62 and I don't buy it, but a lot of old people feel like "the more arrests, the more I'm getting for my tax dollar and the safer I am" even as all cities have become more dangerous the past few years.

Most of my replies here have just been writing a synopsis of part of the book for people who haven't read the book.

Read the book.

Not fear mongering but reality: I seriously think there are people here who will find themselves in a jail or prison cell in the coming years, will have a lot of time to think, and think "maybe I should have read that free book someone posted on Shroomery."

This book can keep you free, and it's free.

Though I really shouldn't push people to read it. The more "low hanging fruit" the cops can pick off, the further they have to go to find me.


--------------------
--How to grow POPPIES.
--GROWING SHROOMS, FROM SPORES TO TRIPS
--x7x+ variety history.

Edited by nektar61 (06/15/22 01:53 PM)

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Re: Arrest Proof Yourself.pdf [Re: Auron]
    #27820707 -

Auron said:
Do the police really waste their time chasing down mushroom growers?


I’m going to rephrase this as a rhetorical question: do police really waste their time?

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Re: Arrest Proof Yourself.pdf [Re: outlier52]
    #27820714 -

outlier52 said:
Auron said:
Do the police really waste their time chasing down mushroom growers?


I’m going to rephrase this as a rhetorical question: do police really waste their time?


Yes they do. It's not "wasting" time to get an easy felony arrest. And they love to do it with rifles pointed at your head, kick in your door, and make you look like a terrorist to your neighbors in the paper.

Read my reply above. And read the book. Or don't, and get arrested so I don't have to. Fine with me.

Check in regularly on the Headlines section here, and see a few of the many busts of small shroom growers every week:
https://www.shroomery.org/forums/postlist.php/Board/34


--------------------
--How to grow POPPIES.
--GROWING SHROOMS, FROM SPORES TO TRIPS
--x7x+ variety history.

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Re: Arrest Proof Yourself.pdf [Re: nektar61] * 1
    #27820804 -

That said, LEO are generally busy with even lower hanging fruit. You could get away without a VPN as long as you're not popping up on their radar for any reason. Almost every DMT or shrooms bust I've read about was preceded by a fire, domestic disturbance, or investigation into broader dealings. It's often by accident and surprise when they bust a psychedelic grower. Unless you're like a mega grower and distributor, if you simply keep your head low and grow mushrooms for yourself and few close friends, very low chance you'll get in trouble. Way easier to clean up a shroom grow compared to a weed grow, too. You could trashbag your tubs while they're serving the warrant. But yea, if they do find it there won't be any mercy.

It probably also depends on the politics of your community. I live in a very liberal city. We don't have shrooms or weed legalized here yet but weed is basically decriminalized. There's a city ordinance as well as police chief orders not to prosecute weed users. Of course that grace doesn't apply to manufacturers, but it gives a huge blanket to hide under. Without smell complaints or stop-n-frisk the popo aren't really in range to detect anything. That's why safety should prioritize relationships with those close to you, IMO. It's the landlord, neighbor, ex that's going to invite LEO in range to snoop.

Edited by Icon (06/15/22 03:52 PM)

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Re: Arrest Proof Yourself.pdf [Re: Auron] * 1
    #27820939 -

Auron said:
Do the police really waste their time chasing down mushroom growers?


Depends where you are, but generally no. It's not worth the time or effort.

People do get busted growing but that is because they tell other people they grow. Sooner or later someone else gets busted and flips on them, an ex wants revenge, someone has a bad trip and parents blame the mushrooms or a "drugs are bad" type person feels morally obligated to call the police, etc. That's how it happens in almost all cases.

It's super easy not to get busted, don't tell anyone you are growing. Loose lips sink ships.


--------------------
The nearest we ever come to knowing truth is when we are witness to paradox.

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Re: Arrest Proof Yourself.pdf [Re: nektar61]
    #27820964 -

We probably don't hear much about people on here who get busted. I've read a few of them, but I think a lot of people, if busted for shrooms, are afraid to even post here again. So there's a reporting bias against shroomery members who get busted telling us about it on here.

As for VPNs, good idea. And don't use a free one.

Visiting this site probably doesn't raise any flags. Visiting this site daily might.

Who knows who even sees your stuff. Maybe some low level tech at your ISP sees you here a lot, tells a scumbag friend and the friend robs you while you're at work. I think you could reasonably assume that anyone who's here near daily for more than 6 months probably has shrooms in their home.

Scumbags love to steal drugs because you can't call the cops on them, and any drugs are cash money on the street, at least if they're willing to deep discount them to a dealer.

We don't only have to fear the cops. If people know you grow drugs you're in danger of getting robbed if word gets out. You're probably more likely to get robbed than get busted.

I talk more about this in my sigline, in the "things I wish I knew" link.

Beyond posting this book for people to read, I am not going to bend over backwards to convince people to be careful. It's your problem, not mine. I'm being careful.

I've already put in way too much energy trying to help people here who are sloppy with staying free and don't care.

Anyone being sloppy, or thinking I'm paranoid: 

Have you ever been in jail?

I have. It's not fun.

Spent 5 and a half months there for drugs that belonged to someone else. I'll never make that mistake, or any similar mistakes, again. Would have spent more time in jail, or possibly prison, if I hadn't spent 22,000 dollars on a good lawyer.

Jail changes your outlook on being sloppy. 


--------------------
--How to grow POPPIES.
--GROWING SHROOMS, FROM SPORES TO TRIPS
--x7x+ variety history.

Edited by nektar61 (06/15/22 06:19 PM)

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Re: Arrest Proof Yourself.pdf [Re: nektar61] * 1
    #27821053 -

nektar61 said:
Visiting this site probably doesn't raise any flags. Visiting this site daily might.


Maybe in China.

I think in terms of what your ISP does you are being super paranoid. There is no low level tech doing packet sniffing on your traffic, that's absurd. I think you miss some fundamental understand of scale, networking and how the internet actually works.

For most people simply changing their DNS server to a free private provider like CloudFlare is enough to scramble ISP logs beyond anything but advanced analysis.

That said, your internet usage paints a picture of you. That's particularly interesting to police if you are searching up all sorts of stuff that could be involved in terrorism, child pornography or drug manufacture. Those sorts of records can be subpoenaed and used as evidence against you.

No mister police officer, those 10 monotubs of shrooms aren't mine, they belong to someone else... then they start looking at your internet history, phone and computer. By then you are fucked anyway, but it's just more nails in the coffin.

There's certainly no harm in using a VPN, you're better off not using one than using a free one, but really if it goes far enough that the police are looking at you that closely it won't make much difference. Certainly if you're generating unusual traffic like tor or torrent traffic a VPN is highly recommended, but for your average user it's just an illusion of security. It's a part of privacy, not security.


--------------------
The nearest we ever come to knowing truth is when we are witness to paradox.

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Re: Arrest Proof Yourself.pdf [Re: Northerner] * 1
    #27821105 -

I can access DMT Nexus with a VPN.

Northerner said:
nektar61 said:
Visiting this site probably doesn't raise any flags. Visiting this site daily might.


Maybe in China.

I think in terms of what your ISP does you are being super paranoid too....


The amount of work that I put into being careful doesn't harm me. It doens't keep me up at night. It pretty much comes automatically. Though I do get irritated at people telling me I'm being too careful or calling me paranoid for it.

It's far better to be too careful than not careful enough.

The main thing I do to be careful is tell no one. In fact, it's the first line of advice I give to noobs:
https://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php?Cat=0&Number=27646632&page=0&vc=1#27646632

Most people in jail for drugs are there because someone snitched on them, not because they didn't use a VPN.

Using a VPN is part of an overall suite of things I do to be careful.

I just got off probation. I'm extra careful. But if I'd been this careful to begin with, I wouldn't have gone to jail.

I went to jail because someone borrowed my car, forgot drugs in it, and I got a traffic stop with a drug dog.

Now I never lend out my car, but if I did, I would search my own car after getting it back. Most people would think that's insanely paranoid. But it would have kept me out of jail. I had a couple bags of someone else's speed under the passenger seat. I don't even do speed. 

I didn't tell anyone I do drugs, I just did a favor for a friend. They gave someone else a ride, people got drunk and high, drugs got stashed, I went to jail for it.

Am I paranoid to be careful now?

There is at least one person in federal prison serving life without parole because of something sloppy he posted on the Shroomery. And he was using Tor.

Using a VPN is part of a mindset that includes not being sloppy online and in person.

That guy was a special case, but acting like posting here is the same as posting about cars on Facebook is not wise.


--------------------
--How to grow POPPIES.
--GROWING SHROOMS, FROM SPORES TO TRIPS
--x7x+ variety history.

Edited by nektar61 (06/15/22 07:57 PM)

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Re: Arrest Proof Yourself.pdf [Re: nektar61] * 2
    #27821135 -

I'm sorry about what happened to you. That's a lesson for everyone to take on board. Terrible miscarriage of justice.

Indeed snitches are the #1 way to get caught. Loose lips sink ships. I'm also always promoting the idea of telling no one, just a few posts up you can see.

I just wanted to check in about the ISP and traffic assumptions you may have, it's important to stay realistic too.


--------------------
The nearest we ever come to knowing truth is when we are witness to paradox.

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Re: Arrest Proof Yourself.pdf [Re: Northerner] * 2
    #27821142 -

Northerner said:
I'm sorry about what happened to you. That's a lesson for everyone to take on board. Terrible miscarriage of justice.



Thank you.

One more "paranoid" thing I'll just put here (that I learned from my expensive lawyer when I went on probation): cops in USA (and maybe elsewhere) can search your trash when it's out on the street for pickup, without a warrant, even without probable cause. It's public property at that point.

If they hear a rumor you have drugs, they can (and likely will) search your trash (even sometimes having the trash guys pick it up and set it aside.)

Then if they find evidence of drugs (like all the specific trash that growing shrooms creates), they can use that to get a warrant and search your house.

Also, cops hearing you grow / have drugs is more likely to result in a bust if you live in a small town that a big city, if all other factors the same.

Someone growing a few monotubs with a few ounces of dry shrooms looks like a big dealer to small town cops. Where a city cop might not even bother.


--------------------
--How to grow POPPIES.
--GROWING SHROOMS, FROM SPORES TO TRIPS
--x7x+ variety history.

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Re: Arrest Proof Yourself.pdf [Re: nektar61] * 3
    #27821145 -

Yeah, trash security is a real thing everyone should consider. It is often the thing that leads to a knock on the door or the damning piece of evidence for people who receive illicit mail.


--------------------
The nearest we ever come to knowing truth is when we are witness to paradox.

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Re: Arrest Proof Yourself.pdf [Re: nektar61] * 1
    #28089676 -

nektar61 said:
Northerner said:
I'm sorry about what happened to you. That's a lesson for everyone to take on board. Terrible miscarriage of justice.



Thank you.

One more "paranoid" thing I'll just put here (that I learned from my expensive lawyer when I went on probation): cops in USA (and maybe elsewhere) can search your trash when it's out on the street for pickup, without a warrant, even without probable cause. It's public property at that point.

If they hear a rumor you have drugs, they can (and likely will) search your trash (even sometimes having the trash guys pick it up and set it aside.)

Then if they find evidence of drugs (like all the specific trash that growing shrooms creates), they can use that to get a warrant and search your house.

Also, cops hearing you grow / have drugs is more likely to result in a bust if you live in a small town that a big city, if all other factors the same.

Someone growing a few monotubs with a few ounces of dry shrooms looks like a big dealer to small town cops. Where a city cop might not even bother. 


There is so much good information here. Thank you!

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Re: Arrest Proof Yourself.pdf [Re: stemseed]
    #28091154 -

Or you could just be so weird that anyone and everyone is mortified to even look at anything in your yard let alone want to go through your garbage.

Leaving hides and bones and other animal parts all around is a good start. Piles of moldy stuff helps too. Most people are afraid of fungus. People don't want to know what the fuck it is. Meter reader keeps his eyes front. Thinks you're a Jeff Dahmer or some shit.


--------------------
Question everything, it's very responsive.

Culture Storage

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Re: Arrest Proof Yourself.pdf [Re: Nichrome] * 1
    #28091204 -

Nichrome said:
Or you could just be so weird that anyone and everyone is mortified to even look at anything in your yard let alone want to go through your garbage.

Leaving hides and bones and other animal parts all around is a good start. Piles of moldy stuff helps too. Most people are afraid of fungus. People don't want to know what the fuck it is. Meter reader keeps his eyes front. Thinks you're a Jeff Dahmer or some shit.


hahah.

I think you're kidding, if so funny. If not, health inspector shows up for that. Unless you live in the country.

Regarding "most people are afraid of fungus" I showed a really nice very clean rhizo agar plate to a friend of mine who does drugs, including shrooms. She kind of recoiled at it and said "it looks like a disease."

Decades ago I lived next to a guy who later got arrested for having killed a family member years earlier in a different state. He was normal as fuck, even his yard was mowed, watered, normal, etc.

That's the way to live if you live in town and break laws. According to the book at the top of this thread, and in my experience of watching people go to jail for stupid shit.

First rule of "arrest proof yourself" is that the cops in your town should be entirely unaware that you exist.


--------------------
--How to grow POPPIES.
--GROWING SHROOMS, FROM SPORES TO TRIPS
--x7x+ variety history.

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Re: Arrest Proof Yourself.pdf [Re: nektar61]
    #28091218 -

Health inspector would be trespassing as long as notices are posted.

Hides, bones, teeth etc. No problem. Health inspectors do not fuck with altars or anything that looks religious... Even better if your property is listed as a church of some type. Unincorporated or whatever.

Rule #1 when assholes show up. Tell them to fuck right the hell off and mean it when you say it. If you don't understand what I mean then you won't likely ever.

Fuck fear. Stay safe.


--------------------
Question everything, it's very responsive.

Culture Storage

Edited by Nichrome (12/10/22 01:57 AM)

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Re: Arrest Proof Yourself.pdf [Re: Nichrome]
    #28091280 -

Auto-Summary
A health inspector would be considered trespassing if notices are posted, but altars and religious items are generally left alone. When officials arrive, it's advised to firmly tell them to leave and mean it. This individual has faced multiple encounters with local, state, and federal authorities, including raids and jail time, but maintains a "no fear" attitude. They document their experiences and have faced charges like money laundering due to selling Bitcoin for cash. The article advises against engaging in magical thinking and highlights the potential negative consequences of having a "freaky yard" or religious items, as neighbors may report you to authorities.

Nichrome said:
Health inspector would be trespassing as long as notices are posted.

Hides, bones, teeth etc. No problem. Health inspectors do not fuck with altars or anything that looks religious... Even better if your property is listed as a church of some type. Unincorporated or whatever.

Rule #1 when assholes show up. Tell them to fuck right the hell off and mean it when you say it. If you don't understand what I mean then you won't likely ever.

Fuck fear. Stay safe.



There's a decent guy in a small town in New Hampshire who has been running a church that serves psychedelics for a while, thought having a church would protect him. He even applied for proper church status, and has some other "established" church that he operates under.

He also lives a life of "no fear." I've followed his blog and podcast for about 15 years. He's fascinating. He puts up all kinds of notices in and around his home, has no trespassing signs, gets up in the face of "officials" who try to tell him what to do, especially on his own property. He's very polite, but truly fearless.

He videos the cops, won't let anyone tell him what to do, and has been to jail many times for various righteous civil disobedience things that should all be legal.

Local, state, and federal cops have been fucking with him for years.

He absolutely lives with no fear, and is very public about documenting that.

FBI has raided him a few times and confiscated all his computers.

All this started at the local level with a visit from the city fire inspector (BEFORE he ran the drug church) because he has a messy yard with couches / porch with lots of people hanging around, etc.

His neighbors didn't like and and pressed the city to "do something" about him.

The guy tossed the fire inspector out, and filmed it. Fire inspector came back with cops. Later state police started tracking him, then federal agencies.

There are a bunch of people living similar to him and going to jail like him documenting all of it on YouTube. 

Feds finally got him on a bunk charge for "money laundering" because he used to sell people Bitcoin for cash without involving the government.

Sort of how they could only finally get Al Capone for tax evasion. Though Al Capone committed actual harm. This church guy isn't harming anyone. But he's likely going to real federal prison for years.

I guess "live with no fear even all the way to prison", here's an article about how he "has no regrets." (it's even in the title).

I'm not saying live in fear, but it sounds like you're saying that the advice of this book this thread is about is bunk. It's not. And it sounds like you're engaging in magical thinking being so sure that having a freaky yard will protect you from arrest.

Did you read the PDF of the book in the first post?

Did you at least read the whole first post?

When I was in jail I met a few people who "had no regrets" and lived with no fear. But they were in jail and some are still in jail. Some were in jail on the way to longer prison stretches.

The thing I really commonly found in jail with drug busts was people who engaged in what I'd call "magical thinking" getting arrested a lot.

People who believe they have protective spirits, stars align, and / or think they'll get sprung early because they wrote a letter to the governor or have a good jailhouse lawyer or because they say "I'm a good person."

I don't "need to be right" about this with you, I don't need to convince you. I'm answering just to stay solid in this thread about giving people advice to stay out of prison, and some of that involves not having the attitude it sounds like you have.

I'm fine with you saying it on here, but I'm going to mention how I think you're wrong.

Aren't you the person I wrote to on here a couple years ago and told you "I don't think it's a good idea to post recognizable photos of your toddler child hanging out with you in your shroom drug lab?"

...and you politely said basically "it's all good"? Even if shrooms are legal where you are, that's a bad idea, if that was you.

Having a bunch of weird shit in your yard, if you have neighbors, is going to make your neighbors openly or secretly want to take you down. I've seen it.

I'm 62 and I now live alone but I've lived in a fuck of a lot of different group housing situations with roommates going back to the 70s, with all kinds of free-living freaks. I've even heard that same  type of thing you said (from a biker friend who who was later murdered): "Rule #1 when assholes show up. Tell them to fuck right the hell off and mean it when you say it. If you don't understand what I mean then you won't likely ever."

Neighbors are not cool with people who have weird shit in their yard / house. They may not tell you, but if you have a bunch of neighbors, one of them will hate you for it. And even people who just drive by will notice it. Maybe they don't live free and don't want you living free.

Can be less of a problem in a rural location, because there's more room between you and your neighbors, but in the country people are really normal in a way, and don't like hippie shit / stuff that looks like voodoo, they'll think you have a cult and turn their buddy the sheriff on you first chance the get.

In the country you can certainly gut a deer in your yard no problem. But if you make a freaky sculpture out of the bones and do anything too "ritualistic" looking with it, you will stand out in a way you don't want to. 

Yes, you can tell "officials" to fuck off. But anywhere in the world, eventually they'll come back flanked by men with guns, and then you only have 3 choices: do what they say, go to jail, or fight and die.


--------------------
--How to grow POPPIES.
--GROWING SHROOMS, FROM SPORES TO TRIPS
--x7x+ variety history.

Edited by nektar61 (12/10/22 06:17 PM)

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Re: Arrest Proof Yourself.pdf [Re: nektar61] * 1
    #28091505 -

nektar61 said:
First rule of "arrest proof yourself" is that the cops in your town should be entirely unaware that you exist.


I live by this. Any attention is bad attention. Being as boring and unremarkable as possible is way more stealthy than intimidation. If you ever do have to do something to someone to defend your freedom, you're better off doing it quietly and having the best reputation possible.

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Re: Arrest Proof Yourself.pdf [Re: nektar61] * 1
    #28091600 -

This gave me a chuckle


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Re: Arrest Proof Yourself.pdf [Re: Hartford] * 2
    #28091633 -

I didn't read any of that. All the one line talk directed at me, feels like getting dissected vernacularly.

The message can be all sorts of valid but without bedside manner words in mass go unheard.

Checking out of this convo.....:horrified:


--------------------
Question everything, it's very responsive.

Culture Storage

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Re: Arrest Proof Yourself.pdf [Re: nektar61] * 1
    #28091650 -

I think the book is full of rather good advice although it should be said that avoiding accidents and unnecessary aggravation should be weighed against the ability to avoid getting arrested. Being arrested isn't the end of the world if you're right, and sometimes going to jail is necessary to cause meaningful change.

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