rumfor69 said:

The idea of isolating genetics is a little bigger than that. Even cloning a fruit can have hundreds of different genetics in it still and maybe more. Cloning is just more isolated than multi spore which has thousands/millions of genetics.

---

uninc4life2010 said:

rumfor69 said:

The idea of isolating genetics is a little bigger than that. Even cloning a fruit can have hundreds of different genetics in it still and maybe more. Cloning is just more isolated than multi spore which has thousands/millions of genetics.

---

If I've already isolated a strain on agar and fruited that isolate, wouldn't cloning a fruit from the isolated strain yield mycelium that is still true to the isolated genetics?  I'm not talking about cloning a fruit that resulted from a multispore grow.  I'm cloning from the isolate that performed the best in fruiting. 

I understand that the prints taken won't be genetically identical to the original isolate, but shouldn't the gene pool should be narrrower than the original MS mycelium colony that came from the original spore print/syringe?  Isn't that the whole point of vendors selling spores of certain strains?  Penis envy spores grow penis envy-looking mushrooms despite the fact that there are a bunch of distinct genetics involved.  It's just that the penis envy gene pool has been narrowed so that all the resulting spores produce penis envy-type fruits.

---

rumfor69 said:

uninc4life2010 said:

rumfor69 said:

The idea of isolating genetics is a little bigger than that. Even cloning a fruit can have hundreds of different genetics in it still and maybe more. Cloning is just more isolated than multi spore which has thousands/millions of genetics.

---

If I've already isolated a strain on agar and fruited that isolate, wouldn't cloning a fruit from the isolated strain yield mycelium that is still true to the isolated genetics?  I'm not talking about cloning a fruit that resulted from a multispore grow.  I'm cloning from the isolate that performed the best in fruiting. 

I understand that the prints taken won't be genetically identical to the original isolate, but shouldn't the gene pool should be narrrower than the original MS mycelium colony that came from the original spore print/syringe?  Isn't that the whole point of vendors selling spores of certain strains?  Penis envy spores grow penis envy-looking mushrooms despite the fact that there are a bunch of distinct genetics involved.  It's just that the penis envy gene pool has been narrowed so that all the resulting spores produce penis envy-type fruits.

---

That's what I mean you can't really isolate genetics on agar. You can do hundreds of transfers on agar and there's still thousands of genetic strands all tangled around each other, connected to each other and helping each other. You wouldn't really want a TRUE isolate. It's better to have more genetics happening together that are getting their symbiotic groove on together. Multi spore just has so damn many that it's too random so we take clones.

Creating a cross hybrid variety has a lot more to do with how different variety spore germinate next to each other in the beginning germination stage when they first come out the spore they can genetically combine. So of course after that the prints from those selected fruits will share those combined genetics if they can be stabilized. Sometimes they fall apart like RRs PE6 variety did.

---

You got me confused now. What you said seems to go against this post -> Stro's Cleaning and Isolating On Agar

I am I simply not getting it ?

Bakedbeings said:

OP seems like for your purposes you could just do an MS grow and pick three fruits to clone. that would save you some time

---

rumfor69 said:

You can't create an isolate on agar from doing transfers. You can transfer some 1,000 times and it'll still throw sectors sometimes. Even a beautiful perfect shaped disk on agar still has lots of genetic strands all intertwined together.


This is a dish pin clone of a different clone that I've been transferring for yrs now. Still isn't an isolate and never will be.

---

rumfor69 said:

If it's from a clone then yes significantly narrrower. Instead of thousands/millions it's more like hundreds/thousands or whatever the numbers are.

But say just an MS plate, that you keep transferring and transferring, you might as well just consider it an MS plate no matter how many times you transfer it.

---

rumfor69 said:

And that math is great I love thinking that way myself with things too. Ok so we know spores are crazy small. If you can see the spores on your agar there a crazy amount of them there. They all germinate touching each other through membranes touching and exchanges I just don't have the terminology for.

All their mycelium strands combine some, wrap around each other, twist, in braids, just microscopic insanity mesh. What we are able to see as white mycelium is billions of single cell microscopic ropes so twisted and piled and numerous you can see it with the naked eye. And all these different genetics are expanded out in every direction.

You make a cut from that..sure you're narrowing it down. But it's still a massive amount of different genetics, they'll be tons of them in every transfer you can see with the naked eye. They're laying on top of each other woven together so tight they look like one rope, that rope though is tons of genetics still.

If you google image search mycelium structures and germinating spores it might help this intricacy I'm trying to describe.

---

Bakedbeings said:

the moral of the story is if the plate looks organized to the human eye, the flush will be uniform enough

---

So taking clones is great cause tremendously cuts down on the genetic variants and gets you to uniformity faster or at least more efficiently and preserves physical traits you wanna replicate the best you can.

rumfor69 said:

Bakedbeings said:

the moral of the story is if the plate looks organized to the human eye, the flush will be uniform enough

---

So taking clones is great cause tremendously cuts down on the genetic variants and gets you to uniformity faster or at least more efficiently and preserves physical traits you wanna replicate the best you can.

---