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Shop: North Spore Cultivation Supplies   Unfolding Nature Unfolding Nature: Being in the Implicate Order

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Re: The Official Ukraine War Threat [Re: psi] * 3
    #27881712 -

Do you realise how many people you're talking about relocating with that idea? Like really?

How about Ukraine stuck to the Minsk agreement instead? How about the U.S. government playing world cop telling Zelensky's government to do more to push towards a peace deal instead of boom more weapons?

Why waste a good chance to weaken Russia right?

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Re: The Official Ukraine War Threat [Re: Stable Genius]
    #27881717 -

Don’t forget about the mutant biolab nazis! :cookiemonster:

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Re: The Official Ukraine War Threat [Re: Stable Genius]
    #27881736 -

It would be down to the individual whether or not they felt such strong affinity to Russia to bother doing that I suppose. It wasn't entirely a serious suggestion but such migration presumably not result in the same bloodshed. (But not Russian control of strategically important parts of Ukraine.)

I do think it's a non-trivial question whether or not separatist movements within a country have an implicit right to cleave off parts of that country if enough people in a given region feel that way. At the end of the day de facto control boils down to might makes right. With the civil war in the US, it really was the outcome of the war that cemented the idea that parts of the US couldn't break away and form another nation.

Got any nascent separatist movements going over in Australia? Here in Canada there is renewed talk lately of both Quebec and Alberta separatist movements. Purely grassroots in origin and nothing to do with foreign subversion efforts I'm sure.

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Re: The Official Ukraine War Threat [Re: Stable Genius] * 5
    #27881782 -

Stable Genius said:
Do you realise how many people you're talking about relocating with that idea? Like really?


Probably less than the number of people currently dead and displaced as a result of the Russian state invading Ukraine.


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Edited by shivas.wisdom (07/29/22 02:10 PM)

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Re: The Official Ukraine War Threat [Re: shivas.wisdom] * 2
    #27881797 -

So a new arms race? What a great idea.
How did Kennedy bring the world back from the brink of nuclear war? He took Russia’s position into account.

If this was a job application test for world leader to see if any of you could avert world war 3 congratulations you’ve all failed.

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Re: The Official Ukraine War Threat [Re: Stable Genius] * 2
    #27881802 -

Why would relocation result in an arms race?

Relocation isn't a perfect solution, but talking about how the Ukrainian state didn't respect the Minsk agreements, and how the Ukrainian state refused to compromise on a peace deal - while ignoring that neither side respected the Minsk agreements, and that a viable compromise between the separatists and Russian state existed (relocation to Russia), that didn't require cooperation of the Ukrainian state or state warfare, seems biased on your part.


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Re: The Official Ukraine War Threat [Re: Stable Genius] * 2
    #27881804 -


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Re: The Official Ukraine War Threat [Re: shivas.wisdom] * 2
    #27881817 -

Why do all those people need to be relocated in the first place is probably a better question, or is that idea too biased as well,

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Re: The Official Ukraine War Threat [Re: Stable Genius]
    #27881835 -

Quote:
How did Kennedy bring the world back from the brink of nuclear war? He took Russia’s position into account.



Did he do that before or after the naval blockade around Cuba to stop Russian military equipment coming in?

  This is the speech he gave , as b52's loaded with nukes flew 24hrs a day , doesn't sound like he's taking their position into account .
 
  "To halt this offensive buildup, a strict quarantine on all offensive military equipment under shipment to Cuba is being initiated. All ships of any kind bound for Cuba, from whatever nation or port, will, if found to contain cargoes of offensive weapons, be turned back. . . .

It shall be the policy of this nation to regard any nuclear missile launched from Cuba against any nation in the Western Hemisphere as an attack by the Soviet Union on the United States requiring a full retaliatory response upon the Soviet Union. . . .

I call upon Chairman Khrushchev to halt and eliminate this clandestine, reckless and provocative threat to world peace and to stable relations between our two nations. . . . He has an opportunity now to move the world back from the abyss of destruction. . . .

My fellow citizens: let no one doubt that this is a difficult and dangerous effort on which we have set out. No one can foresee precisely what course it will take or what costs or casualties will be incurred. Many months of sacrifice and self-discipline lie ahead— months in which both our will and our patience will be tested— months in which many threats and denunciations will keep us aware of our danger. But the greatest danger of all would be to do nothing."


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Re: The Official Ukraine War Threat [Re: Stable Genius] * 2
    #27881847 -

Because they want to separate from the Ukrainian state, but states tend to be incredibly unwilling to cede territory. Can you think of any examples where a nation-state willingly gave up territory?

Usually separatist movements don't have a bordering sympathetic nation-state - for example, indigenous sovereignty movements - so the situation in Ukraine had the unique opportunity of choosing between 'separatists and the Russian state force the unwilling Ukrainian state to cede territory' or 'separatists and the Russian state go over the head of an unwilling Ukrainian state, by cooperating together in creating a new home on Russian territory.'

Only one of those choices doesn't require state warfare.


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Re: The Official Ukraine War Threat [Re: Stable Genius]
    #27881848 -

Stable Genius said:
Why do all those people need to be relocated in the first place is probably a better question, or is that idea too biased as well,


The premise was Ukrainians who felt more affinity to Russia than to Ukraine choosing to immigrate to Russia of their own volition, as opposed to trying to carve up the country of Ukraine with separatist movements.

Another relatively bloodless option would be for them to remain in Ukraine but not try to split off part of it.

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Re: The Official Ukraine War Threat [Re: Stable Genius] * 1
    #27881874 -

Stable Genius said:
Why do all those people need to be relocated in the first place is probably a better question, or is that idea too biased as well,


That is actually a pretty good question. The answer will likely depend on who you ask.  Crimean Tatars may think differently than "ethnic Russians" given the history.

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Re: The Official Ukraine War Threat [Re: ballsalsa] * 4
    #27881879 -

Yeah I mean, it’s something worth considering, but every social group was involuntarily committed to some boundary, some state, that they never would have been in ideal circumstances.

I think in order for someone to have a good faith critique on conflicts like the one in Ukraine, you have to cede some moral ground with the understanding that you gotta crack a few eggs to make an omelette. Otherwise you’re stuck condemning any and all state actions, and you typically don’t have to go too far back in history to do so.

The ‘legitimate’ rules-based order that we appeal to was largely founded with means and goals that we would all have to agree are wholly illegitimate. So it’s a wash, fuck it. You either drink the koolaid about the immaculate conception of our current global paradigm, in which case I don’t take you seriously, or you have a sober understanding of power dynamics and how states have historically wielded them, in which case you must at least have SOME understanding of Russia’s actions.


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Re: The Official Ukraine War Threat [Re: The Ecstatic]
    #27881886 -

The Ecstatic said:
Otherwise you’re stuck condemning any and all state actions


As it should be.


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Re: The Official Ukraine War Threat [Re: ballsalsa]
    #27881923 -

ballsalsa said:
Stable Genius said:
Why do all those people need to be relocated in the first place is probably a better question, or is that idea too biased as well,


That is actually a pretty good question. The answer will likely depend on who you ask.  Crimean Tatars may think differently than "ethnic Russians" given the history.


I said exactly the same thing as psi said at the start of this thread before reconsidering my position after thinking about the logical points that FalconWolvrn & The Ecstatic we’re raising :shrug:

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Re: The Official Ukraine War Threat [Re: Stable Genius]
    #27882022 -

Time to move to Russia! Winter is coming! :cookiemonster:

https://twitter.com/dpatrikarakos/status/1552906293026988033?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw

:laugh2:

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Re: The Official Ukraine War Threat [Re: mycosis]
    #27882065 -

link broken


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Give me Liberty caps or give me Death caps.

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Re: The Official Ukraine War Threat [Re: The Blind Ass] * 1
    #27882098 -



Lol


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NotSheekle said
“if I believed she was 16 I would become unattracted to her”

Edited by koods (07/29/22 05:55 PM)

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Re: The Official Ukraine War Threat [Re: koods]
    #27882109 -

Ya that’s gotta be satire that can’t be legit:lol:

Christianity
:borat:


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:hypnotoad:
Making Liquid Culture :  Go insane with LC
Mushboy likes these teks : Making shroom tea
Dank Education

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Re: The Official Ukraine War Threat [Re: koods]
    #27882110 -

Context?

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Shop: North Spore Cultivation Supplies   Unfolding Nature Unfolding Nature: Being in the Implicate Order

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