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Unfolding Nature Shop: Unfolding Nature: Being in the Implicate Order

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Re: The Official Ukraine War Thread. [Re: Falcon91Wolvrn03]
    #27742298 -

Falcon91Wolvrn03 said:
koods said:
He should go back to Russia and join the military


He's in his late 50s.


So instead he runs to the protection of the US


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NotSheekle said
“if I believed she was 16 I would become unattracted to her”

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Re: The Official Ukraine War Thread. [Re: Psilynut2]
    #27742302 -

Psilynut2 said:
So he probably voted for Putin about 13 times or so ?


In post Soviet Russia, Putin votes for you



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NotSheekle said
“if I believed she was 16 I would become unattracted to her”

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Re: The Official Ukraine War Thread. [Re: Falcon91Wolvrn03]
    #27742376 -

Falcon91Wolvrn03 said:
shivas.wisdom said:
Did you try looking for it?

You're assuming more than Putin’s trust in his intelligence - you're assuming the intelligence is accurate, and that the intelligence is being accurately reported by Putin.


I couldn't find any solid numbers.  Just an estimate of 2,000 deaths since the war started, which they they believe is a very low estimate.  Add that to the deaths before the war, plus the uncertainty, and it's ballpark with what Putin said.


2000 civilian deaths since Russia invaded +  3,393 civilian deaths before Russia invaded + uncertainty = 14,000

Is that what you're suggesting? Because you've already stated you agree with my pre-invasion numbers. If it's uncertain, why is Putin just guessing? And if he's not just guessing, why not provide his evidence?

Furthermore, let's assume you're correct in your assumption - how can you look at a death toll of 3,393 over 8 years, and a possible death toll of 10,000 in just two months and still believe this is a humanitarian mission?

Edit: It's actually even worse. Putin was quoted on 05/03/22 and the invasion began on 24/02/22. So that would mean ~10,000 civilian deaths in 10 days.


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Edited by shivas.wisdom (04/19/22 05:35 PM)

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Re: The Official Ukraine War Thread. [Re: koods] * 2
    #27742447 -

koods said:
He should go back to Russia and join the military


What if he doesn't want ppl to die AND also doesn't want to kill ppl, koods?
Maybe he is saving his own skin, you superior male aggressor of utmost pride, courage, and nationalism.


--------------------
hmm...

"I'm naked and fearless... And my fear is naked."

"life isn't worth living without the threat of death"

"I got my plans in a ziploc bag, let's see how unproductive we can be"

"nobody lives their lives fully except for bull fighters"

My Trade List

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Re: The Official Ukraine War Thread. [Re: koods]
    #27742480 -

koods said:
Falcon91Wolvrn03 said:
If people felt the ruble was worthless, they'd sell it for dollars, and the price would go down.


I will explain this once again: the ruble is being supported by an absurd interest rate of 17%.


And I will explain this once again, the dollar is down relative to the ruble.

koods said:
If you hold rubles in an account, that account pays ~17% interest. This rate is set by the central bank and is an artificial means of supporting a currency. This is not a sustainable situation because it means that essentially credit is unobtainable in Russia.


Russia just lowered its interest rate by 3%, while the US had to raise its interest rate.  While I agree Russia is struggling right now, the current trend is favorable.


--------------------
I am in a minority on the shroomery, as I frequently defend the opposing side when they have a point about something or when my side make believes something about them.  I also attack my side if I think they're wrong.  People here get very confused by that and think it means I prefer the other side.

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Re: The Official Ukraine War Thread. [Re: koods] * 1
    #27742496 -

koods said:
To the average person, this means the ruble is losing 17% of its value per year compared to the cost of goods and services. Hence the 18% inflation rate.

A good target for interest rates and inflation in a healthy economy is around 2%


Uhhh, hate to break it to you but inflation in the US is also extremely elevated. Not all that far behind Russia's here.

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Re: The Official Ukraine War Thread. [Re: shivas.wisdom]
    #27742526 -

shivas.wisdom said:
2000 civilian deaths since Russia invaded +  3,393 civilian deaths before Russia invaded + uncertainty = 14,000

Is that what you're suggesting? Because you've already stated you agree with my pre-invasion numbers.


As I said before, there seems to be some debate about who counts as a civilian given much of the conflict has been fought by volunteers rather than paid military forces.  If the DPR and LPR volunteer groups are considered civilians, then the number would be 3400 (non fighting civilians) + 5800 (armed civilians) + 2000 (NATOs very low estimate since the start of the new conflict) + NATOs more reasonable estimate, does come close.

shivas.wisdom said:
Furthermore, let's assume you're correct in your assumption - how can you look at a death toll of 3,393 over 8 years, and a possible death toll of 10,000 in just two months and still believe this is a humanitarian mission?


:lolwut:

I said these appeared to be peace keeping forces BEFORE the invasion began.  I'm not calling this just a humanitarian mission.

And since the 2022 fighting began, civilian deaths are now estimated at 24,000.


--------------------
I am in a minority on the shroomery, as I frequently defend the opposing side when they have a point about something or when my side make believes something about them.  I also attack my side if I think they're wrong.  People here get very confused by that and think it means I prefer the other side.

Edited by Falcon91Wolvrn03 (04/19/22 06:46 PM)

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Re: The Official Ukraine War Thread. [Re: chopstick]
    #27742546 -

chopstick said:
koods said:
To the average person, this means the ruble is losing 17% of its value per year compared to the cost of goods and services. Hence the 18% inflation rate.

A good target for interest rates and inflation in a healthy economy is around 2%


Uhhh, hate to break it to you but inflation in the US is also extremely elevated. Not all that far behind Russia's here.


I hate to break it to you but there’s a huge difference between 8 and 18%


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NotSheekle said
“if I believed she was 16 I would become unattracted to her”

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Re: The Official Ukraine War Thread. [Re: Falcon91Wolvrn03] * 1
    #27742552 -

The DPR and LPR provide casualty reports that distinguish civilians from fighters. Who is debating their own reports?

Putin gave a figure of 14,000 civilian deaths on March 5th. A number that coincidentally matches with the total pre-invasion death toll only 10 days previous. It seems far more likely that Putin was misrepresenting this number as one of his many justifications for war - it was certainly how individuals like chopstick interpreted it.

The idea that Putin has secret intelligence that is more accurate than the direct reporting of the DPR and LPR, and accurate despite your acknowledgement that the true death toll is currently uncertain, is nonsense.

His statement is fake news, according to your own definition. No proof (he provided none, and you can't find any), no convoluted answer (the separatists provide their own numbers for civilian and fighter casualties that don't match Putin’s), and it certainly has to have been an intentional lie because we both know Putin has access to intelligence.

Can you not even admit a single blemish against this man?


--------------------

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Re: The Official Ukraine War Thread. [Re: shivas.wisdom]
    #27742562 -

No he cannot


--------------------
NotSheekle said
“if I believed she was 16 I would become unattracted to her”

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Re: The Official Ukraine War Thread. [Re: koods]
    #27742564 -

koods said:
chopstick said:
koods said:
To the average person, this means the ruble is losing 17% of its value per year compared to the cost of goods and services. Hence the 18% inflation rate.

A good target for interest rates and inflation in a healthy economy is around 2%


Uhhh, hate to break it to you but inflation in the US is also extremely elevated. Not all that far behind Russia's here.


I hate to break it to you but there’s a huge difference between 8 and 18%


And yet that's still absurdly high. Way higher than it should be. And it would have been higher with BBB, but thank fuck it didn't pass.

And what's the gasoline inflation rate? 50%? Another hidden tax on Americans.

But I'm sure it's totally worth it to deal major damage to the entire global economy just to punish random Russian citizens for a decision made by their government.

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Re: The Official Ukraine War Thread. [Re: chopstick]
    #27742575 -

It is . The high  price of gas isn't a tax though  , that's capitalism .
  My taxes are what's paying for the little missiles that are turning Russian tanks into scrap metal .
That's worth it too .


--------------------


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Re: The Official Ukraine War Thread. [Re: shivas.wisdom]
    #27742584 -

This conversation is moot, as I just looked at Putin's 5 March speech in two different translations and here are both:

1.  "From 13,000 - 14,000 people have been killed over these years" (see 5:07-5:19):


2.  "13,000 - 14,000 were killed throughout these years." (see 8:10 - 8:16)


He never even claimed 14,000 civilians were killed.


--------------------
I am in a minority on the shroomery, as I frequently defend the opposing side when they have a point about something or when my side make believes something about them.  I also attack my side if I think they're wrong.  People here get very confused by that and think it means I prefer the other side.

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Re: The Official Ukraine War Thread. [Re: koods]
    #27742587 -

shivas.wisdom said:
Can you not even admit a single blemish against this man?


koods said:
No he cannot


The only thing I defend Putin from is make believe.


--------------------
I am in a minority on the shroomery, as I frequently defend the opposing side when they have a point about something or when my side make believes something about them.  I also attack my side if I think they're wrong.  People here get very confused by that and think it means I prefer the other side.

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Re: The Official Ukraine War Thread. [Re: koods]
    #27742591 -

Quote:
In post Soviet Russia, Putin votes for you


 
    I get to vote for the same guy twice and then I can't legally be that stupid again .


--------------------


Edited by Psilynut2 (04/19/22 07:23 PM)

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Re: The Official Ukraine War Thread. [Re: chopstick]
    #27742613 -

chopstick said:
koods said:
chopstick said:
koods said:
To the average person, this means the ruble is losing 17% of its value per year compared to the cost of goods and services. Hence the 18% inflation rate.

A good target for interest rates and inflation in a healthy economy is around 2%


Uhhh, hate to break it to you but inflation in the US is also extremely elevated. Not all that far behind Russia's here.


I hate to break it to you but there’s a huge difference between 8 and 18%


And yet that's still absurdly high. Way higher than it should be. And it would have been higher with BBB, but thank fuck it didn't pass.

And what's the gasoline inflation rate? 50%? Another hidden tax on Americans.

But I'm sure it's totally worth it to deal major damage to the entire global economy just to punish random Russian citizens for a decision made by their government.


Inflation in the US is about the same as it is in the rest of the world


--------------------
NotSheekle said
“if I believed she was 16 I would become unattracted to her”

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Re: The Official Ukraine War Thread. [Re: Psilynut2]
    #27742617 -

Psilynut2 said:
It is . The high  price of gas isn't a tax though  , that's capitalism .
  My taxes are what's paying for the little missiles that are turning Russian tanks into scrap metal .
That's worth it too .


Russian taxes are buying planes made out of styrofoam


--------------------
NotSheekle said
“if I believed she was 16 I would become unattracted to her”

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Re: The Official Ukraine War Thread. [Re: Falcon91Wolvrn03]
    #27742643 -

Vid 1: at 7:00 he appears to cast the invasion as inevitable because of Ukraine's potential ability to develop nuclear weapons independently and use them as leverage to take back the territorial gains of the 2014 invasion of Crimea.

Vid 2: this crazy translation says the same

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Re: The Official Ukraine War Thread. [Re: Falcon91Wolvrn03] * 1
    #27742825 -

Falcon91Wolvrn03 said:
So
What's in this war for the American people?


Rent goes up. People get upset. More homeless. More lower class. Middle class diminished.  Upper class makes bank.

Inflation. Retards still buy that shit

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Re: The Official Ukraine War Thread. [Re: Falcon91Wolvrn03] * 1
    #27742851 -

Falcon91Wolvrn03 said:
This conversation is moot, as I just looked at Putin's 5 March speech in two different translations and here are both:

1.  "From 13,000 - 14,000 people have been killed over these years" (see 5:07-5:19):

2.  "13,000 - 14,000 were killed throughout these years." (see 8:10 - 8:16)

He never even claimed 14,000 civilians were killed.


The article chopstick provided stated: "Up to 14,000 civilians in the Donetsk and Lugansk republics have been killed since 2014, Russian President Vladimir Putin said on Saturday." But sure, perhaps that was a mistake. Looking at his speech, the full quote is: "Now listen to this: the Donbass people are NOT stray dogs! Yet, 13,000-14,000 of them have been killed there over years."

It still seems like he's misrepresenting the total deaths (including those of the UAF) as if they were solely those of the Donbass people. Either way, you still haven't provided a source for his claim that isn't based on a guessed uncertainty factor numbering in the thousands, so why aren't you chanting 'source or make believe' like you normally do?

Why don't you go crawling through some casualty reports in order to verify his claim, instead of listening to the same speech twice looking for a semantic defence?


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Unfolding Nature Shop: Unfolding Nature: Being in the Implicate Order

General Interest > Political Discussion
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